Cause of death? (Bloating + prolapse)

[gcreekrch]

Sorry, I use them interchangeably, but I should have said vaccines.

I will add there is no difference in organic and conventional beef as long as all protocols are followed other than what is in people's minds.

 

[aaronstiff]

I will add there is no difference in organic and conventional beef as long as all protocols are followed other than what is in people's minds.

I would agree that "organic" can often be nothing but a label. But when customers buy local from farmers they know and have visited, as mine do, they know 100% there's a difference between conventional and whatever it is I and many others do. I have no attachment to the word "organic" for that reason exactly. I'd prefer just to describe it as "grass-fed and -finished hormone-, vaccine- and antibiotic-free meat".

 

[gcreekrch]

I would agree that "organic" can often be nothing but a label. But when customers buy local from farmers they know and have visited, as mine do, they know 100% there's a difference between conventional and whatever it is I and many others do. I have no attachment to the word "organic" for that reason exactly. I'd prefer just to describe it as "grass-fed and -finished hormone-, vaccine- and antibiotic-free meat".

I have very good customers myself, both for live and carcass. Our steer calves were contracted at 50 cents over the market this year. Partially because of how they perform and partially because the feeder has found ours don't get sick at the lot. Carcass customers repeat because of quality. I know my customers surely wouldn't like knowing we had let cattle die of neglect. Maybe yours don't know the difference

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Same here. My feedlot buyer pays a premium for my feeders. He says they make him money and don't get sick.

 

[aaronstiff]

I have very good customers myself, both for live and carcass. Our steer calves were contracted at 50 cents over the market this year. Partially because of how they perform and partially because the feeder has found ours don't get sick at the lot. Carcass customers repeat because of quality. I know my customers surely wouldn't like knowing we had let cattle die of neglect. Maybe yours don't know the difference

You're right...I should pump them all full of every known vaccine on the market. None of my customers would ever buy them knowing I did that, but at least I would never have a single death!

 

[gcreekrch]

You're right...I should pump them all full of every known vaccine on the market. None of my customers would ever buy them knowing I did that, but at least I would never have a single death!

Maybe once you educate yourself on the subject you could explain to your customers why. That single death had it been the average of our calves would have been a loss of $1337. There are a lot of things I can buy with that money.

 

[aaronstiff]

Maybe once you educate yourself on the subject you could explain to your customers why. That single death had it been the average of our calves would have been a loss of $1337. There are a lot of things I can buy with that money.

I just wouldn't be able to explain to them why other farmers don't and still succeed...

I sympathize with losing a calf but they do die. The good part is no matter how hard we try, we can't kill them all.

I think I'll just stick with this answer and go take some advice from like-minded farmers. I regret this thread turning into a vaccine debate, but I hope in the end there are no hard feelings.

 

[gcreekrch]

I just wouldn't be able to explain to them why other farmers don't and still succeed...



I think I'll just stick with this answer and go take some advice from like-minded farmers. I regret this thread turning into a vaccine debate, but I hope in the end there are no hard feelings.

No hard feelings at all. Just hard for me to understand why someone would turn a blind eye to cheap insurance.
You were the one that asked opinions mind.

 

[kenny thomas]

I just wouldn't be able to explain to them why other farmers don't and still succeed...



I think I'll just stick with this answer and go take some advice from like-minded farmers. I regret this thread turning into a vaccine debate, but I hope in the end there are no hard feelings.

I'm not pushing vaccines at all but at the very very least all groups I know of, grass fed, organic, natural recommend blackleg vaccine.
And you speak of hormones, natural occurring hormones in a heifer in heat is hundreds times the amount of a hormone you would give.
Edit to add this.
No matter what is wrong that causes an animal to die please dispose of it properly. Blackleg especially can be spread by coyotes or dogs dragging parts of the animal to other farms.

 

[greybeard]

I would tend to not follow advice on blackleg vaccination from anyone who has never heard of blackleg

X2!!
I knew of blackleg when I was 12--13 yrs old and that was before we ever had cows in my immediate family.
How the heck does a person raise cattle and not know what blackleg is?
It's been around since the late 1800s.

 

[wbvs58]

As I said above, the closed herd comment was in reference to vaccinating in general, not Blackleg specifically. And she would of course take a tetanus shot to save her life. It is quite common for the shots to be administered in emergency, not just as a booster every 10 years.

Good luck to her if she can recognise the sort of wound that will cause tetanus, a bruise that can provide anaerobic conditions for spores that entered the blood stream many months previously from a minor scratch, an infected toenail, an ulcer in the oral cavity or tooth injury/infection just to name a few. Antitoxin only lasts a matter of days and for a tetanus toxoid booster to work she would have to have had a primary course.
Anyhow cattle are what we are talking about here and if you are prepared to wear the occaisional loss then that is your choice, I know many people that follow that path and seem to do fine most of the time. I know some people don't get their kids vaccinated for various beliefs and in most situations they get away with it with the infectious diseases only because the vast majority of people do the right thing and have their kids vaccinated and those diseases are down to such a low level now. I feel that those that don't vaccinate bludge off those that do.

Ken

 

[greybeard]

I wonder how many of OP's clients would buy his beef if they knew he had blackleg in his herd?

I'm betting he won't be willing to advertise this blackleg event.
Nor would PEI.

 

[uplandnut]

I'm not going to get in to the vaccine or not battle with everyone. However as to your original question, was the calf laying in a position where he couldn't get up? I had a cow and calf one year that laid on an old hay ring and could not get up due to getting overcentered. I caught both of them before they died and they survived. A year later I had a bull do the same thing while I was gone and I came home to a dead bull that had gassed himself. Looked just like you described, bloated and anus pushing out.
Those couple times were enough to get me to really cut back on how much I use hay rings, switched to unrolling for the most part.

 

[Hpacres440p]

I wonder how many of OP's clients would buy his beef if they knew he had blackleg in his herd?

I'm betting he won't be willing to advertise this blackleg event.
Nor would PEI.
View attachment 10615

I'm not wearing my glasses, but that looks like an angry potato. Seriously, what is that? I can't orient my mind with what I'm seeing.

 

[aaronstiff]

I'm not going to get in to the vaccine or not battle with everyone. However as to your original question, was the calf laying in a position where he couldn't get up? I had a cow and calf one year that laid on an old hay ring and could not get up due to getting overcentered. I caught both of them before they died and they survived. A year later I had a bull do the same thing while I was gone and I came home to a dead bull that had gassed himself. Looked just like you described, bloated and anus pushing out.
Those couple times were enough to get me to really cut back on how much I use hay rings, switched to unrolling for the most part.

I don't think so. It was out in the paddock lying on it's side. But thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Silver]

I'm not wearing my glasses, but that looks like an angry potato. Seriously, what is that? I can't orient my mind with what I'm seeing.

Potato wart. It causes borders to slam shut.

 

[aaronstiff]

I'm not wearing my glasses, but that looks like an angry potato. Seriously, what is that? I can't orient my mind with what I'm seeing.

Potato wart. It causes borders to slam shut.

Yeah, it's quite sad actually. There was an outbreak here in PEI from a pretty large farm, but as a result, all potatoes from PEI aren't allowed past the border. Just talked to a friend today who works for a smaller farm, and he said they've just stopped grading because there's no point. I think they also do beef which is keeping them afloat for now.

 

[Silver]

Maybe once you educate yourself on the subject you could explain to your customers why. That single death had it been the average of our calves would have been a loss of $1337. There are a lot of things I can buy with that money.

That's the thing right there. In today's world the farmer needs to do their part to educate the ignorant masses about the products we produce. If we don't the masses will just continue to assume that science is on their side.

 

[wbvs58]

I'm not going to get in to the vaccine or not battle with everyone. However as to your original question, was the calf laying in a position where he couldn't get up? I had a cow and calf one year that laid on an old hay ring and could not get up due to getting overcentered. I caught both of them before they died and they survived. A year later I had a bull do the same thing while I was gone and I came home to a dead bull that had gassed himself. Looked just like you described, bloated and anus pushing out.
Those couple times were enough to get me to really cut back on how much I use hay rings, switched to unrolling for the most part.

Good constructive suggestions Upland. I don't think it is a battle between vaccinate or not though, it doesn't concern me whether the OP vaccinates or not as with a few other members on here it is their choice after assessing the risk. What I don't like though is the OP using inaccurate lame duck excuses for not vaccinating and I like to correct the record as there may be some other members reading this that are seeking information to make their decision as to which way to go.

Ken