Libby is a extremely tame cow. Previously shown. Can go out to her in the pasture anytime and pet or halter. Even with newborn calf. She had two heifers that we have retained: Star and Scarlet. They were super tame and easy going...until they calved as 2 yrs old. Both are very protective of their newborn calves. Scarlet calms down and goes back to being fairly tame after a bit. Star does now. This year she is worse and we plan to see her cause she makes me nervous now. Star had a heifer "Lucy" which we kept and she now has had 2 calves. Lucy was also mellow and tame until she calved at 2. This year I left her alone after calving. Calf is a few weeks old and Lucy seems okay again but I'm being more cautious of her. Scarlet also had a heifer "Audrey" that we retained and same story as Lucy. Obviously this is a genetic trait but is it likely to also stay with every generation? I'm debating on keeping Audrey's and Lucy's heifers now. We want to be as safe as possible (just had a yearling bull turn on us and are both injured as a result) so starting to question some things.
Cattle temperment changes - calving, hereditary?
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NIdahoShorthorns
Well-known member
Part of this comes from the bull too.
They all have different sires plus we have other cows from each of those sires that aren't like this. So must be from the Dams side in our case.
coachg
Well-known member
I think several on here will tell you cattle aren't pets . I don't want wild cattle but I don't have to be able to pet mine to be happy with them. If you want that type cattle you may have to sell the ones you can't pet . My females seem to definitely change after calving. Mothering instinct kicks in . I'm not trying to be mean about it just honest . We have over 100 momma cows/ first calf heifers. I want to see them mothering their babies and back grazing to make milk . My wife and I are cat people I guess . Think there are 7-8 at the house . I can't even pet all of them ! Had labs but after the last one died of old age my wife said she didn't want another dog .
farmerjan
Well-known member
More often than not, "pet/tame" heifers are worse dispositioned after calving than just average cows.... See that time and again... They seem to have less respect for people and are just more disagreeable/assertive of themselves..... Also see it in many dairy heifers that are shown... they are often witches when they first come fresh...
Now @TCRanch seems to just have big "babies", that are big pets all the time... same with @Nesikep .... so I think some is in the genetics...
I have one that is a "pain in the butt" pet but she is like that with her calves too... brings them to me to check them out....and she was a dairy cross heifer I raised on a nurse cow... Go figure.
Now @TCRanch seems to just have big "babies", that are big pets all the time... same with @Nesikep .... so I think some is in the genetics...
I have one that is a "pain in the butt" pet but she is like that with her calves too... brings them to me to check them out....and she was a dairy cross heifer I raised on a nurse cow... Go figure.
GoWyo
Well-known member
Sounds like they would be good ranch cows. Have to manage them to get along with their maternal instincts. If their maternal instincts are too much for your situation and preferred management, then they should be sold to someone who they better fit with. I have a few cows that I can scratch their tail heads, but new calf time I just leave them alone and can usually tag their calves a day or two later when I put the sneak on them while the cow is in the feed line.
Nesikep
Well-known member
Mine are all just as tame after calving as before, they like showing off their little ones.. sometimes I'm the one getting a licking before the calf does when they're especially confused.. like this one (A few years back)
This was this year
And this is the best part of easy going cows.. You need to give a hand with calving, no need to run them to a chute to do it... The orphan Xena was a kinda pesky though
Genetics and the environment in which they're raised. I do have a few cows that get a little testy after they calve and I pick my battles, wait a day or so to tag/work them (unless opportunity presents itself and I can do it day 1). I calve out my first calf heifers at the barn. When I work their calves, I generally keep the new mama separated in another section, but so she can watch. That's how she learns the drill, going forward.
Always stay on guard but if you're nervous or anxious, they pick up on that. Cattle are prey animals. You may be their BFF when you have cubes, but you're still a predator.
Always stay on guard but if you're nervous or anxious, they pick up on that. Cattle are prey animals. You may be their BFF when you have cubes, but you're still a predator.
sunnyblueskies
Well-known member
Never trust a cow or bull. They can hurt you bad without being mean.
Honestly, you have to draw your personal line as to what is acceptable and what is not. I know what you mean though with having a really calm friendly cow and you expect their offspring to have at least some of that quality, but honestly you can't count on that. They'll show you their true colours once they calve, or even a few years down the road.
I can't give advice, only share what we do. Your yearling bull which turned on you........ one way ticket on the next available bus ride to town. Bulls being aggressive towards human when handled don't get ANY excuse for their behaviour.
Cows..... depends if they cross the threshold line of aggression. We have a few, maybe a handfull, which are bitches not to be toyed with after they had their calf. Messing with their calf in the first few days would bring me a hospital bill. But....... after a few days they are all back to normal self and I don't have to watch my back. Processing these calves is a 'when the opportunity arises' and nobody can get hurt.
But if a cow doesn't settle down after a day or two........ single ticket bus ride to town. It's not worth the stress of having to watch your back and know where 'she' is at all times.
Your life and health is worth more then a confrontation with an ornery cow.
Just my 5 cent.
Honestly, you have to draw your personal line as to what is acceptable and what is not. I know what you mean though with having a really calm friendly cow and you expect their offspring to have at least some of that quality, but honestly you can't count on that. They'll show you their true colours once they calve, or even a few years down the road.
I can't give advice, only share what we do. Your yearling bull which turned on you........ one way ticket on the next available bus ride to town. Bulls being aggressive towards human when handled don't get ANY excuse for their behaviour.
Cows..... depends if they cross the threshold line of aggression. We have a few, maybe a handfull, which are bitches not to be toyed with after they had their calf. Messing with their calf in the first few days would bring me a hospital bill. But....... after a few days they are all back to normal self and I don't have to watch my back. Processing these calves is a 'when the opportunity arises' and nobody can get hurt.
But if a cow doesn't settle down after a day or two........ single ticket bus ride to town. It's not worth the stress of having to watch your back and know where 'she' is at all times.
Your life and health is worth more then a confrontation with an ornery cow.
Just my 5 cent.
Ky hills
Well-known member
I like calm non skittish cattle, but not necessarily pets. I don't fault a cow for being protective of her calf, as long as she settles back down after a few days to maybe a couple weeks. We have several kinds of predators and some level of protectiveness is needed.
I believe the presence of potential predators can put some new mothers on edge.
We have one older cow that I've had since she was a heifer that is extremely protective. I know not to mess with her new calf unless she is in the other side of a fence or a safe distance away which isn't likely. She was that way from her first calf on. After she settles back down in a few days she is fine to be around and docile.
I've retained several of her daughters, none of them are aggressively protective as her but they are good attentive mothers.
Here is the older cow in the first picture. She's calm easy to handle, not a pet but maybe arms length flight zone ( ie I can get within about an arms length of her before she slowly and unconcerned walks away. When she calves she's a different animal but soon is back to being herself. The next two cows are her daughters by different bulls.
The black cow is not a pet but very close,
Always one the first to feed and the last lo leave and requires encouragement to leave the feeding lot. Not aggressive like her mother when she calves but is going to stand right with her calf and can be an imposing presence. Few days after calving back to her food motivated self.
The red white face horned cow is another daughter of the first cow. For some unknown reason she is gentle enough to allow a bit of petting before she slowly ambles just out of reach.
She is a good attentive mother but not as imposing as her sister.
The longhorn x Brahman cow raised her first calf born last fall. She is one not to be messed with at first either. She is more likely to take her calf and run but would get aggressive if somebody or something was messing with her calf.
She is kind of the self appointed herd supervisor. Even though she is fine after the early days of calving she still investigates anything out of the ordinary and if a young calf makes an alarm bawl she is on the way to see what's going on.
I like having a cow like her around since there are so many potential predators and dogs around. She's not a threat to us as long as we respect her distance at calving.
A few year ago, I had a very dangerous BWF cow, I found out the hard way about her when she calved as a heifer, I had bought her and she was bred at the time unbeknownst to me. She hit me and put me up a gate. She never settled down and we kept her and tried to work around her because of the dread of trying to get her separated and loaded, She would come after a person whether or not she had a calf. When she came after me from a long ways off out in the field one day, I knew it was time to get the nerve up to get her gone. I should have gotten that cow sold and into hamburger long before I did. I cull pretty hard and for disposition but not for just being protective of young calves.
I believe the presence of potential predators can put some new mothers on edge.
We have one older cow that I've had since she was a heifer that is extremely protective. I know not to mess with her new calf unless she is in the other side of a fence or a safe distance away which isn't likely. She was that way from her first calf on. After she settles back down in a few days she is fine to be around and docile.
I've retained several of her daughters, none of them are aggressively protective as her but they are good attentive mothers.
Here is the older cow in the first picture. She's calm easy to handle, not a pet but maybe arms length flight zone ( ie I can get within about an arms length of her before she slowly and unconcerned walks away. When she calves she's a different animal but soon is back to being herself. The next two cows are her daughters by different bulls.
The black cow is not a pet but very close,
Always one the first to feed and the last lo leave and requires encouragement to leave the feeding lot. Not aggressive like her mother when she calves but is going to stand right with her calf and can be an imposing presence. Few days after calving back to her food motivated self.
The red white face horned cow is another daughter of the first cow. For some unknown reason she is gentle enough to allow a bit of petting before she slowly ambles just out of reach.
She is a good attentive mother but not as imposing as her sister.
The longhorn x Brahman cow raised her first calf born last fall. She is one not to be messed with at first either. She is more likely to take her calf and run but would get aggressive if somebody or something was messing with her calf.
She is kind of the self appointed herd supervisor. Even though she is fine after the early days of calving she still investigates anything out of the ordinary and if a young calf makes an alarm bawl she is on the way to see what's going on.
I like having a cow like her around since there are so many potential predators and dogs around. She's not a threat to us as long as we respect her distance at calving.
A few year ago, I had a very dangerous BWF cow, I found out the hard way about her when she calved as a heifer, I had bought her and she was bred at the time unbeknownst to me. She hit me and put me up a gate. She never settled down and we kept her and tried to work around her because of the dread of trying to get her separated and loaded, She would come after a person whether or not she had a calf. When she came after me from a long ways off out in the field one day, I knew it was time to get the nerve up to get her gone. I should have gotten that cow sold and into hamburger long before I did. I cull pretty hard and for disposition but not for just being protective of young calves.
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We range calve a little over 200 head. The calves are tagged and receive a couple of shots ASAP. We can have a lot of nasty cold and wet weather to contend with. I have no patience with a cow that doesn't permit us to help when needed. We carry calf blankets with us when we check cows and putting one on the new, wet calf can make the difference between it getting up and sucking or having to be thawed in the house! We take docility scores when the calves are given their pre-weaning shots (the first time they have been run through a squeeze chute), That is a subjective rating from 1 to 4 based on how adjitated the calf seemed and how fast it exited the chute. Many calves calm down by the time they are weaned but that first time being worked reveals the base docility. I believe that picking replacements from the calmest end has contributed a lot to the easy handling of our herd.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I found I can have completely docile cows that still run off predators.. 2 legs good, 4 legs bad.
I think you can see it in the second video I posted of Zima and her 3 hour old calf.. she's fine with me, but she's not happy about the dog being around and running her off
My last cow that calved I gotta be a bit careful around.. gotta ask permission to see the baby! (and then she licked me)
Ky hills
Well-known member
Yeah, I have some of those kind too. My Jersey nurse cow Maybell is that way, I can work with her calf as long as I need to and she's fine with that, better not let the dog come anywhere near her though or she will channel an irate Brahman cow in seek and destroy mode.
This! And not even what's considered "normal" predators. I hate armadillos because they tear up the pastures and fields (and our yard), but they're not really a threat. And yet, it's amazing how many squashed 'dillos I find in the pastures. My girls take 'em out!
That said, some of my younger cows, primarily retained heifers and calves, still have total stranger danger around other people. And I'm good with that.
Randi
Well-known member
I insist on having fairly quiet cows (and bulls). They aren't, and don't have to be pets. We have always been fairly stringent on culling wild and especially aggressive cows.
I have always been a believer that 'No-one will care how good of a calf she can raise if you (or someone else) is in the hospital or dead because of her'
We don't tolerate mothers that are dangerous to us. She's allowed to be protective of her calf, and we respect the mothers that tell us to stay back. But if she comes across the pen at someone she is going to get a last trip to town in her very near future. We don't tolerate high heads or the kind of animals that snort as they run by you sideways.
We do understand that cattle in pain can be dangerous because of it and those that have been wound up for some reason need time to calm down before being handled safely. We do have facilities that enable us to safely handle anything that might be dangerous. I have dogs and I know how to use them, as well.
I've always wanted quiet cows. It is just safer and more enjoyable for everyone. It became even more important when we had kids and they were young. Now the kids are grown up and mostly don't have anything to do with our cattle. As we get older, we find that the excitement of working with something that excitable isn't very fun anymore. I have a bad knee, I don't run well (if at all) anymore. I err STRONGLY on the side of caution when I am in any pen with cattle right now
I have always been a believer that 'No-one will care how good of a calf she can raise if you (or someone else) is in the hospital or dead because of her'
We don't tolerate mothers that are dangerous to us. She's allowed to be protective of her calf, and we respect the mothers that tell us to stay back. But if she comes across the pen at someone she is going to get a last trip to town in her very near future. We don't tolerate high heads or the kind of animals that snort as they run by you sideways.
We do understand that cattle in pain can be dangerous because of it and those that have been wound up for some reason need time to calm down before being handled safely. We do have facilities that enable us to safely handle anything that might be dangerous. I have dogs and I know how to use them, as well.
I've always wanted quiet cows. It is just safer and more enjoyable for everyone. It became even more important when we had kids and they were young. Now the kids are grown up and mostly don't have anything to do with our cattle. As we get older, we find that the excitement of working with something that excitable isn't very fun anymore. I have a bad knee, I don't run well (if at all) anymore. I err STRONGLY on the side of caution when I am in any pen with cattle right now
TexasJerseyMilker
Well-known member
I snatch my newborn calves away and bottle feed as soon as they have licked them off, seems like this helps them pass the placenta. But those post calving hormones --- This latest cow seriously tried to kill our German Shepherd. Good thing she was inside the fortress of her dog run. To a cow she looks just like a wolf.
The next 4 or 5 days cows hormones are running wild and they can be on high alert so I carry my stick when I lead them in for milking, then they settle down.
The next 4 or 5 days cows hormones are running wild and they can be on high alert so I carry my stick when I lead them in for milking, then they settle down.
