cattle prices and trends

Help Support CattleToday:

Status
Not open for further replies.
J":101qswwo said:
Caustic Burno":101qswwo said:
cmjust0":101qswwo said:
Caustic Burno":101qswwo said:
I paid for pasture lease out out of my wages from working for a large ranch in high school. The old rancher I worked for made sure everthing that I did with that cow I counted every cost. I had a nice size herd for a kid by the time I got out of high school. I had several great mentors and cattle was business and all else was BS, it was about making money.

So you worked for what you got, but did you ever consider that your employer knew full well that he wasn't just giving you a job -- but a big opportunity?

Now, I don't think you'll find anybody here riding your ass for taking that opportunity, but what I fail to understand is why you believe that having been given that opportunity grants you the right to belittle those of us who weren't?

Maybe you feel like you absolutely earned 101% of your advantage over us hobby guys by working on that ranch, Caustic, but I'd be interested to hear the owner's take on what he's owed for your success...

You didn't chew your own cord in two, Caustic. You had help along the way just like the rest of us. All I can say is that you're lucky none of your own benefactors had as much contempt for you as you seem to have for most of us.

I never had anything against anybody starting out in the cow business I have a problem with leachs and thieves and the pretenders. If you run cattle as a hobby thats fine and you admit it, quit doing it to steal what you rightfully owe in taxes.
Pay to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. If you choose to live in the city pay the tax, I had a couple the other day want to buy a couple of cows to get there ag excemption thats a thief plan and simple.
One of the greatest cattleman I ever knew didn't own a cow, but he wasn't putting on the charade either.

Who are you to judge what is a "theif plan" and what is not?There is a written set of rules that make it ok (legal) for that couple to do just that or else they wouldn't be able to do it right?

What is your position on farm subsidies?

We already got old CB's position on farm subsidies? Its sort of like pinkeye or ringworm its been talked about.
Caustic, is has a right to his oppinion, but its just that a thought on a matter nothing more.
MD
 
eric":3w0r23rd said:
Caustic Burno":3w0r23rd said:
Eric you show your ignorance again about timber you need to get out of that Dallas suburb. You bought land sold the maketable timber to pay for the land and clearing. I know this is a tough concept for you but you can actually get the land and cattle to pay for themselves and not have to prop them up with a machine shop.
Never considered following the business a hobby. Not one acre of my land was given or inheirted I earned it the old fashion way I worked the land and the land paid for itself. I lied I do have two inheirted acres that joins my property.
You can't admit you are not ranchers it kills you.
Your one of the guys that drives to feed store and hangs around to talk to the cattlemen and try to impress them.

So you bought the land, sold the timber for more than you paid for the land, made enough from the timber to pay for the rest of the clearing of the land, and then made enough from the timber to buy cattle with? be nice son, you must have some of Jack's magic beans to make trees grow that fast.
Or are you gonna admit in another post that you lied about that too? Your lies are all running together now, I am not sure what's true and what isnt.

As far as driving to the feed store and impressing the cattle men, what could I possibly do to impress them? And when do I have time to hang around feed stores? Heck its getting harder and harder to find time to check this forum as often as I would like.

I will admit I am not a rancher, never claimed to be. Won't ever find a post of mine ever claiming to be someone I am not. Can the same be said of you? But I did buy my own property, and didnt "inherit 2 acres" from anyone.

Go ahead and slam once more, but i am out of here because I dont want Macon to think this is a mud slingin match, and mostly because it's almost lunch time!! :lol:

I don't know what there is to not understand or believe about what CB is saying here. We bought a 160 acre farm with 40 acres of never touched woods on it, logged the timber off and payed for the entire piece of land.
What the heck are you talking about Magic Beans for? The trees were already there Mr. Eric, I wouldn't be calling people a liar when you have no clue what you are talking about. :)
 
KMacGinley":14vd4tyd said:
eric":14vd4tyd said:
Caustic Burno":14vd4tyd said:
Eric you show your ignorance again about timber you need to get out of that Dallas suburb. You bought land sold the maketable timber to pay for the land and clearing. I know this is a tough concept for you but you can actually get the land and cattle to pay for themselves and not have to prop them up with a machine shop.
Never considered following the business a hobby. Not one acre of my land was given or inheirted I earned it the old fashion way I worked the land and the land paid for itself. I lied I do have two inheirted acres that joins my property.
You can't admit you are not ranchers it kills you.
Your one of the guys that drives to feed store and hangs around to talk to the cattlemen and try to impress them.

So you bought the land, sold the timber for more than you paid for the land, made enough from the timber to pay for the rest of the clearing of the land, and then made enough from the timber to buy cattle with? be nice son, you must have some of Jack's magic beans to make trees grow that fast.
Or are you gonna admit in another post that you lied about that too? Your lies are all running together now, I am not sure what's true and what isnt.

As far as driving to the feed store and impressing the cattle men, what could I possibly do to impress them? And when do I have time to hang around feed stores? Heck its getting harder and harder to find time to check this forum as often as I would like.

I will admit I am not a rancher, never claimed to be. Won't ever find a post of mine ever claiming to be someone I am not. Can the same be said of you? But I did buy my own property, and didnt "inherit 2 acres" from anyone.

Go ahead and slam once more, but i am out of here because I dont want Macon to think this is a mud slingin match, and mostly because it's almost lunch time!! :lol:

I don't know what there is to not understand or believe about what CB is saying here. We bought a 160 acre farm with 40 acres of never touched woods on it, logged the timber off and payed for the entire piece of land.
What the heck are you talking about Magic Beans for? The trees were already there Mr. Eric, I wouldn't be calling people a liar when you have no clue what you are talking about. :)

Mac what he can't realize is this is common practice, I bought one 50 acre tract and sold double the timber off of it. Now if you are not planning on making pasture or improvements you have a piece of worthless land for the next 40 years to pay taxes on with no return on investment. Its common for timber land to sell here for 1500 an acre now and improved pasture for 4000. There is a lot of work from that 1500 dollar piece thats only good for cat squirrels to pasture for cattle.
 
CB: I'd say that you were blessed to have a good mentor like you did. I had a similar start with the cattle. My grandpa died when I was 8, and I got the cattle bug from him. A neighbor took me under his wing and got me started up as a teenager. By then the pasture was overgrown with multiflor rose, so Dad and I grubbed it out by hand and I bought bred hereford heifers. Dad got the bug too again and we raised cattle together. After Purdue I worked for other people and got my education about the Purebred cattle business. Used car salesmen go to the front of the line ahead of them at the gates of heaven. :D
We have been building a herd of our own now for several years. It isn't all inherited, some come by it through initiative and opportunity.
 
Caustic Burno":2699th0r said:
I never had anything against anybody starting out in the cow business I have a problem with leachs and thieves and the pretenders. If you run cattle as a hobby thats fine and you admit it, quit doing it to steal what you rightfully owe in taxes.
Pay to Ceasar what is Ceasar's. If you choose to live in the city pay the tax, I had a couple the other day want to buy a couple of cows to get there ag excemption thats a thief plan and simple.
One of the greatest cattleman I ever knew didn't own a cow, but he wasn't putting on the charade either.

Fair enough.. My county property taxes run about .0075 of value -- pretty low -- but the PVA valued my place at about half what it's actually worth.. I called them up, thinking they'd made a mistake, but they said they were taxing my place at "ag value," whatever that means.. Even if they'd charged full pop, it would have only been about $750 difference...

As far as the logging discussion goes, I for one have no doubt that your timber paid for your land. I don't understand why anyone would doubt that, frankly. I've got way too many cheap hickories shading out valuable smaller oaks and walnuts, and several BIGASS oaks which have been entirely shading out huge areas for years... I'm sure those big oaks have gotten about as big as they're gonna get, so it's probably just a matter of time now before they die out... I figure I might as well have them taken down and hauled out purposefully and get paid, instead of waiting for a gigantic mess to make itself.
 
KMacGinley":28npi4xy said:
I don't know what there is to not understand or believe about what CB is saying here. We bought a 160 acre farm with 40 acres of never touched woods on it, logged the timber off and payed for the entire piece of land.
What the heck are you talking about Magic Beans for? The trees were already there Mr. Eric, I wouldn't be calling people a liar when you have no clue what you are talking about. :)

So they paid you more for 40 acres of timber then you paid for the whole 160 acres? Watch where you're stepping folks, it's getting deep in here. Why in the world would any paper company or lumber mill pay you more for 40 acres of timber then your entire cost? Why wouldnt they just buy the property themselves, clearcut it and then resell it and recoup their investment? Now if this is land you inherited then thats different.
 
The main reason in East Texas is the land has no value after the timber is cut. Who wants to own and pay taxes on a piece of land for the next forty years before a return on investment.
Secondly the timber companies are not intrested in small parcels under 500 acres here.
If you own 25 to 100 acres here and clear cut it your stuck with it from now own, takes mega bucks of machine work to replant to get another stand of timber off of it in 40 years.
I bought a 50 acre parcel for 700 an acre and cut 1500 an acre in pine and pulp wood off it. Old Grimes place rundown house and 17 acres went for 30,000 neighbor bought it and cut 40,000 in timber spent 20,000 in Dozer work cleaning it up. He should of had a timber cruise before buying bad deal.
I have a stand of Cherry bark red oak in one pasture I have been offered 80 to 90 dollars a ton for several times by the hard wood flooring mill takes about 7 trees to make a 30 ton load.
 
Caustic Burno":1lf82qz4 said:
Old Grimes place rundown house and 17 acres went for 30,000 neighbor bought it and cut 40,000 in timber spent 20,000 in Dozer work cleaning it up. He should of had a timber cruise before buying bad deal.

A timber cruise is a good thing to mention here, in case anybody is getting the bright idea that they're gonna call ol' Joe down at the local lumber mill to come turn their trees into cash..

See, the thing is, ol' Joe will probably screw you over if you give him half a chance. :x

If you want to sell timber off your property, do it right and call a consultant forester.. They're like realtors for trees, in that they'll come out and take a look (timber cruise), figure out what's best to go and what should stay if you want to cut selectively, they'll appraise it, and then they'll bid it out to different loggers and hand you the best deal.. If you want it cut and reclaimed (no stumps, trash, holes, etc) then that's how they'll bid it out. They'll also make sure your logger is insured and bonded so you don't get sued when somebody gets nailed by a widowmaker on YOUR back forty... If the timber folks don't handle the job like they agreed to, the consultant forester will help you arbitrate it, since you're his/her client. Typically, they collect their fee when you get your money from the loggers.

Plus, not only will foresters get you more money and help you cover your own behind, most will also help you figure out the tax ramifications of selling timber, help you develop a plan for whatever's left of your woodlot after cutting, be around to answer future questions, etc., etc.,

So, for Pete's sake, don't just call Ol' Joe.. :eek:
 
It is also knowing where to market the most valuable timber.
Old Joe will give you the same price for Black Walnut and Black Chery as for hardwood saw logs for ties about 10 bucks a ton.
It takes a shewd management of timber stands once you cut that 100 year old black walnut there is never a return on that again in your lifetime.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spe ... 89268.html
 
Caustic Burno":nqi194n6 said:
It is also knowing where to market the most valuable timber.
Old Joe will give you the same price for Black Walnut and Black Chery as for hardwood saw logs for ties about 10 bucks a ton.

My favorite is when somebody "suckers" old Joe into clearing their land for them as an even trade for the timber.. :roll:

On a related note, I called my local sawmill guy the other day to ask about some rough cut lumber for a deck.. He said he had green eastern red cedar for (brace yourself) $2/bdft... The cheapest, most prolific scrub around here, and he's getting $2 a foot for it... :shock: That 30'er I cut for two end posts the other day must have been worth a small fortune... NOT.

Green white oak, on the other hand -- REAL fricken lumber -- he was selling for 90 cents/bdft.. How's that for assbackward? :roll:

Caustic Burno":nqi194n6 said:
It takes a shewd management of timber stands once you cut that 100 year old black walnut there is never a return on that again in your lifetime.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spe ... 89268.html

Part of that management should probably be a good insurance policy -- especially if you're raising timber for money or counting on it to pay for your retirement..

I'm just kinda counting my timber as a potential rainy day fund, but I still cringe everytime I see a big emeffen flash of lightning over the hill.. I always have to check my woodlot after big storms to see if I lost any money..
 
eric":1owjr6x7 said:
KMacGinley":1owjr6x7 said:
I don't know what there is to not understand or believe about what CB is saying here. We bought a 160 acre farm with 40 acres of never touched woods on it, logged the timber off and payed for the entire piece of land.
What the heck are you talking about Magic Beans for? The trees were already there Mr. Eric, I wouldn't be calling people a liar when you have no clue what you are talking about. :)

So they paid you more for 40 acres of timber then you paid for the whole 160 acres? Watch where you're stepping folks, it's getting deep in here. Why in the world would any paper company or lumber mill pay you more for 40 acres of timber then your entire cost? Why wouldnt they just buy the property themselves, clearcut it and then resell it and recoup their investment? Now if this is land you inherited then thats different.

Are you calling me a liar? I don't lie Mister.

This was in 1986, we bought the ground for $625 per acre, 122 Acres tillable, 38 acres woods. We hired my College roommate who was a graduate forester to market the mature trees for 10% of the sale. We netted around $100,000. The land is now worth $2500 per acre due to the crazy land prices these days. As to why a big timber company didn't swoop in and buy it, I really couldn't tell you except that here in Indiana we seem to be a little short on big timber companies. CB may also have put his finger on it when he said that they tend to not buy land, they just bid on timber.

In the future, Eric, I would confine your opinions to something that you have a clue about, whenever you do have a clue about anything.
 
Yes. I am flat out calling you a liar and that I do know to be true. Spin it anyway you want it and mention anyone you want to, be it forester buddies or even Smoky the Bear, They did not pay you more money in 1986 for 40 acres of timber than what you paid for the entire 160 acres. Now if you bought the land (or more than likely it was given to you) in 1986 and sold the timber recently, then maybe you are telling the truth. But big timber companies didnt get to be big timber companies by making bad deals with folks.

So if you are going to make up stories, please make sure no one can call you out on them, cause you are looking more and more like an idiot with each false post you make. So maybe you should take some of that timber money and buy yourself a clue about cattle or timber either one, cause you seem to be pretty clueless on both, Mister!
 
eric":3cwf5hw2 said:
Yes. I am flat out calling you a liar and that I do know to be true. Spin it anyway you want it and mention anyone you want to, be it forester buddies or even Smoky the Bear, They did not pay you more money in 1986 for 40 acres of timber than what you paid for the entire 160 acres. Now if you bought the land (or more than likely it was given to you) in 1986 and sold the timber recently, then maybe you are telling the truth. But big timber companies didnt get to be big timber companies by making bad deals with folks.

So if you are going to make up stories, please make sure no one can call you out on them, cause you are looking more and more like an idiot with each false post you make. So maybe you should take some of that timber money and buy yourself a clue about cattle or timber either one, cause you seem to be pretty clueless on both, Mister!

Wow, I guess you told me. Over compensating for a shortcoming somewhere are we? :lol:
 
Just a couple of point then I will shut up.

ON TIMBER AND LAND: I knew of some land in Eastern Oklahoma that had a higher dollar value in marketble timber than they were selling the land for. The problem would have been getting the loan for the land unless you were independently wealthy. The owner would have carried a big part of it, but not enough, and you couldnt harvest any of the timber until you paid him off. Yes, they had a forest survey so it was definitely worth more than the asking.

ON WANNABES AND HOBBIEST:

I suggest anybody who thingks someone with another job is anything less because of it do this.

The next time you have a fire on your place and the VFD shows up, send them away because they are wannabes or hobbiest. Or when someone steal the tractor you didnt buy as a tax write off, send the reserve deputy away, because he isnt full time. Better yet, when he recovers the tracoter, tell him you dont want it becasue he isnt a reall cop.

And last, but not least, tell the reserve soldier fighting in Iraq he doesnt deserve your respect because he isnt a real soldier. After all he has another job.

Now with all that said, I think CB's point is he just doesnt like people taking advantage of the system. Something I agree with, but not neccessarily his explanation or definitions concerning it. Allthough he may be using a fallacious argument his point is valid.

Yeah, by CB's definition Im a wannabe. As much as I would like them to; cows just cant pay the bills. Maybe Im living to high; But then I never really did care what other people thought of me. Somehow what I thought of them was allways more important to me. :cboy: Gotta love that smiley
[/b]
 
3MR":1xlpxfi7 said:
Just a couple of point then I will shut up.

ON WANNABES AND HOBBIEST:

I suggest anybody who thingks someone with another job is anything less because of it do this.

The next time you have a fire on your place and the VFD shows up, send them away because they are wannabes or hobbiest. Or when someone steal the tractor you didnt buy as a tax write off, send the reserve deputy away, because he isnt full time. Better yet, when he recovers the tracoter, tell him you dont want it becasue he isnt a reall cop.

And last, but not least, tell the reserve soldier fighting in Iraq he doesnt deserve your respect because he isnt a real soldier. After all he has another job.

[/b]

Excellent Points. :clap:

I think the reason cb has a problem with the part time cattlemen is because they cut into his profits. Forget the tax breaks and the hats and all the other stuff. When you get down to it if all the hobbiest sold out and went into golfing, what would that do for old cb? Less cattle would be in the market and the big boys would make more money. Maybe. ;-)
 
J":3mbv1v1a said:
3MR":3mbv1v1a said:
Just a couple of point then I will shut up.

ON WANNABES AND HOBBIEST:

I suggest anybody who thingks someone with another job is anything less because of it do this.

The next time you have a fire on your place and the VFD shows up, send them away because they are wannabes or hobbiest. Or when someone steal the tractor you didnt buy as a tax write off, send the reserve deputy away, because he isnt full time. Better yet, when he recovers the tracoter, tell him you dont want it becasue he isnt a reall cop.

And last, but not least, tell the reserve soldier fighting in Iraq he doesnt deserve your respect because he isnt a real soldier. After all he has another job.

[/b]

Excellent Points. :clap:

I think the reason cb has a problem with the part time cattlemen is because they cut into his profits. Forget the tax breaks and the hats and all the other stuff. When you get down to it if all the hobbiest sold out and went into golfing, what would that do for old cb? Less cattle would be in the market and the big boys would make more money. Maybe. ;-)

The problem with most wantabees is they are phony, just looking for another way to screw the system.
 
The problem with most wantabees is they are phony, just looking for another way to screw the system.[/quote]


I have a hard time believing that. As much time and hard work as this "hobby" takes, I would think "people just looking for a way to screw the system" would find an easier way to do it.

All of the full time farmers that I know, love standing around laughing about part timers. I think they outta realize how lucky they are to be able to make a living farming rather than getting each other off, making up more reasons to bad mouth "wannabe's"
While they are b.s. ing at the feed store about wannabee's, I am at my full time job- I have yet to get home to start another full time job (I mean hobby)
 
As much time as it takes to manage a hobby sized herd and all the little things that go along with it, how in the world does a full time rancher take time out of their busy day to grace a message board that is oviously over run with amatuers?

I would think the big boys would be too busy workin the land and cattle to sit down at a computer. ;-)

Thats my $0.02 worth, I'll drop this one now. :)
 
J":1rdbcthb said:
As much time as it takes to manage a hobby sized herd and all the little things that go along with it, how in the world does a full time rancher take time out of their busy day to grace a message board that is oviously over run with amatuers?

I would think the big boys would be too busy workin the land and cattle to sit down at a computer. ;-)

Thats my $0.02 worth, I'll drop this one now. :)

Keep trying someday you will learn how to be efficient on that 10 or 20 acres.
You don't have to live in the pasture all day if you know what your doing.
You probably live in one of those gated communities and they call there places ranchette's.

Sure is easy to find the guilty dog in the wantabees they are the ones that bark first.
 
Always fun to listen to the problems that other folks face in other parts of the country.
Up here we sell timber by the log the load gets graded before it hits the yard. Crusiers can make some good bucks.
Anything under fifty feet/thirty inches we call a pecker pole. Easy to get three logs from a tree (16/6). Live in a darn pine forest so I just had to put in my two bits worth.
DMc
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top