Cattle prices and the global economy scenario one

[jedstivers]

Seems wives could be overpriced there too.

 

[Chevy]

HAAAY now ya'll doggin' on Mr O. Thats not cool! Mr president Obama is my homie! :banana: LOL! I am not in to all that politics, but I do think Mr O does ight. I think he should roll around in a BIG body calli with BIG wheels! Durhurhur! Smokin' on fat blunts! Hell I would if I was Mrs President! LMAO! I be rockin out at the white house! PARTY at the WHITE HOUSE! Aww yea! Jk! I sent Mr O can email telling him how to fix this country. We all quit our jobs burn our moneys and start over on a bartering system. I will trade you sum steak for something else well whatever. Mr Doc man no more screwing me out my money just to make a freakin' buck a gosh darn $500 office visit! He will have to take steak on trade and he will have to figure out how he can trade steak for a fancy car. HA! Than we see who acts like their sh&$ don't stink! Durhurhur!
*sign*
Super barbie

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Well that's certainly a rambling bunch of nonsense right there.

 

[highgrit]

He's all talk, ran his campaign on "change" and the white house is still white. Figured it was gonna be painted black within the first year. Still waiting for the change, maybe next Nov.

 

[hurleyjd]

Looks like some one wants to make this pololicital. This post is not about that, I am going to relate a story that an elder gentlemen that has now died told about surviving in the depression in the twentys and thirtys. He raised a sold chickens and not a lot of them at a time. he said that he could sell a laying hen for $4 when a cow was selling for not much more. He stated that a hen could make it on her own by rustiling up her food. The eggs were available daily if you had more than one. You could pick a chicken off of the yard and make a meal out of it. He said that a calf could be killed but the meat would need to be canned to keep. He tried to get everything back to the basics. All lot of cows were bought an killed by the government at that time they were killed and buried. I think the going price was around $12.

 

[3legdonkey]

Looks like some one wants to make this pololicital. This post is not about that,

I figured we would have a few that would try, but eventually we could get it back to what matters. Thank you!

I am going to relate a story that an elder gentlemen that has now died told about surviving in the depression in the twentys and thirtys. He raised a sold chickens and not a lot of them at a time. he said that he could sell a laying hen for $4 when a cow was selling for not much more. He stated that a hen could make it on her own by rustiling up her food. The eggs were available daily if you had more than one. You could pick a chicken off of the yard and make a meal out of it. He said that a calf could be killed but the meat would need to be canned to keep. He tried to get everything back to the basics. All lot of cows were bought an killed by the government at that time they were killed and buried. I think the going price was around $12.

That is one of my concerns. If we go into hyper inflation (different then a depression) will we have the same issues you described?

The chicken and rabbit for that matter idea is a good one. A person could easily transport quite a number of them into a city and make a killing for the very reason your mentioned. Whereas dragging a cow into a city and trying to hack off bits to sell would probably not go over well... Grin.

The issue I see with chickens and rabbits is feeding them cheaply over winter. And for that I am thinking a good stockpile of steel or plastic drums might make sense to buy now. That way you can put up grass silage for the chickens and rabbits to cut your cold weather feed costs.

 

[CottageFarm]

You've got a real interesting discussion going here!

So will owning livestock be the golden road to prosperity?

I think you're real close. As history has shown many times over the centuries, the fundamental basis of prosperity, and survival is land. You can't do anything real without it. But with it, you can grow food, animals and other commodities. You can lease it to someone else to do the same.

Or should I be locked up for being paranoid, and will everything be fine, the world economy will not tank, and the price of cattle will go up and down like usual?

You're not paranoid if it happens....

If, indeed, the global economy collapses...(Something I certainly wouldn't rule out) the survival scenarios kick in. But I think it would be very different than what you saw in the 20's & 30's. Although the Enlightenment and Progressive movements had some impact in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, they did not find the successes here that they had in Europe and had not yet morphed our society into the entitlement mentality that you see today. Our society was not so far removed from it's agrarian roots at that time. We were still largly are rural nation. Even the poorest families still had the capacity to grow some of their own food. Even those in the cities still had small gardens and a few chickens running around. Rural families were able to raise nearly everything they needed for themselves and could sell enough surplus to purchase staples they couldn't grow themselves. They may not have been well off financially, but they had some semblance of security. It's also important to note that during the depression, many people still bought their food. Including beef. They may not have been able to afford as much of it, but cattleman still survived just fine.

Fast forward to today. Our society is now almost completely removed from our agrarian roots. Many families in the cities and even suburbs have rarely even SEEN real live livestock. They have little or no knowledge of the agriculture business except for what little information that is presented to them by adgenda driven partisans.
They have little concept and no education on how to raise food. And even most rural families have never canned anything save a few fruits & jams, (yet they are still far better prepared for catastrophies than their urban counterparts). Western society is so thoroughly dependant upon technology that even minor natural disasters wreak havoc for months, and major ones for years or decades. A global financial collapse would, in my opinion, invert the positions of 1st & 3rd worlds. And only those with something tangible, ie. land, gold, other commodities, will survive & prosper.

While it is probably a good idea to steer clear of the political, it is not really possible to fully examine & discuss the economy without analysing the impact of political decisions. For example, the Great Depression would have been merely another blip on the economic map, were it not for the political decisions made by FDR at the time. And he did not make those decisions because he thought them wise, but because he wanted to change the face and nature of the United States, into something he preferred and thought was better. Those decisions layed the groundwork for subsequent adminitrations make even more, and far more dramatic, changes to the nature of our nation and society. To where today, it is no longer, even vaguely, what it was even 50 years ago. There are some who fully support that change, just as many who abhor it, and of course, just as many, still, who want something in between and of course many have no clue whatsoever. (Those that simply want the light to come on when the flip a switch, water to run when they turn on the faucet, grocery stores full of all the food the want, toys in the garage and a nice vacation every summer.)

So there you go...clear as mud. :shock:

 

[CottageFarm]

The issue I see with chickens and rabbits is feeding them cheaply over winter. And for that I am thinking a good stockpile of steel or plastic drums might make sense to buy now. That way you can put up grass silage for the chickens and rabbits to cut your cold weather feed costs.

Doesn't need to be even that complicated. A small stand of dried field corn and a few bales of alfalfa would get them through the winter quite handily. They love corn on the ear and alfalfa would give them the protien they need. Of course you won't get any eggs unless you can put some lights on them, but....Do we have electricity in this scenario? ;-)

 

[3legdonkey]

The issue I see with chickens and rabbits is feeding them cheaply over winter. And for that I am thinking a good stockpile of steel or plastic drums might make sense to buy now. That way you can put up grass silage for the chickens and rabbits to cut your cold weather feed costs.

Doesn't need to be even that complicated. A small stand of dried field corn and a few bales of alfalfa would get them through the winter quite handily. They love corn on the ear and alfalfa would give them the protien they need. Of course you won't get any eggs unless you can put some lights on them, but....Do we have electricity in this scenario? ;-)

So this is not a total end of the world or even shtf type of scenario. It is just a bunch of bubbles have popped and made our money worth less than it is and getting worth less every day. So assuming you can afford electricity you have it. The corn I agree with as well as a stand of oily sunflowers, but the bales require expensive equipment whereas the silage does not. A person could do the corn (as you suggested) and sunflowers by hand or with a small tractor, and cut and shred the silage by hand as well.

If you wanted to consider a more serious disaster (we should probably start a new thread as I do not think this one has run out) a simple solar panel and battery would give you the few extra hours of light your chickens needed.

 

[3legdonkey]

You've got a real interesting discussion going here!

Well I am reading Aftershock (http://www.amazon.com/Aftershock-Protec ... 713&sr=8-1) and the authors seem to view our near future in many of the same ways I do. So I though it might be intersting to see what others thought.

I think you're real close. As history has shown many times over the centuries, the fundamental basis of prosperity, and survival is land. You can't do anything real without it. But with it, you can grow food, animals and other commodities. You can lease it to someone else to do the same.

I agree and reading "When Money Dies" supports that position very strongly. But the author does not cover cattle ownership only farm land in general.

If, indeed, the global economy collapses...(Something I certainly wouldn't rule out) the survival scenarios kick in. But I think it would be very different than what you saw in the 20's & 30's.

I agree with you as do the Aftershock authors as we would be experiencing something completely different than a recession. Though for some people the difference might not feel much different.

Although the Enlightenment and Progressive movements had some impact in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, they did not find the successes here that they had in Europe and had not yet morphed our society into the entitlement mentality that you see today. Our society was not so far removed from it's agrarian roots at that time. We were still largly are rural nation. Even the poorest families still had the capacity to grow some of their own food. Even those in the cities still had small gardens and a few chickens running around. Rural families were able to raise nearly everything they needed for themselves and could sell enough surplus to purchase staples they couldn't grow themselves. They may not have been well off financially, but they had some semblance of security. It's also important to note that during the depression, many people still bought their food. Including beef. They may not have been able to afford as much of it, but cattleman still survived just fine.

I believe this to be a very valuable point. If we take FL, for example, it currently has 18 million people whereas in the 1920's there were only 1 million people. If prices go way up and comparative salaries go way down how will most of those people survive? A reasonable percentage of the US population is scraping by right now as it is.

Fast forward to today. Our society is now almost completely removed from our agrarian roots. Many families in the cities and even suburbs have rarely even SEEN real live livestock. They have little or no knowledge of the agriculture business except for what little information that is presented to them by adgenda driven partisans.
They have little concept and no education on how to raise food. And even most rural families have never canned anything save a few fruits & jams, (yet they are still far better prepared for catastrophies than their urban counterparts). Western society is so thoroughly dependant upon technology that even minor natural disasters wreak havoc for months, and major ones for years or decades. A global financial collapse would, in my opinion, invert the positions of 1st & 3rd worlds. And only those with something tangible, ie. land, gold, other commodities, will survive & prosper.

I agree that we have shifted our population to the cities with no connection to their food. But then again there was no other possibility. We have way to many people for each person to hold land and grow their own food.

I too considered the third world countries and how a global financial collapse would affect them. I do not believe we would swap places with then as their economies are tired to the US economy. But I do think that with their more basic infrastructures they would feel less of an effect then 1st world countries would. Rising countries like China would be in a deep pile as their economy is directly pegged to the US and the EU. And they are now net importers of food.

While it is probably a good idea to steer clear of the political, it is not really possible to fully examine & discuss the economy without analysing the impact of political decisions. For example, the Great Depression would have been merely another blip on the economic map, were it not for the political decisions made by FDR at the time. And he did not make those decisions because he thought them wise, but because he wanted to change the face and nature of the United States, into something he preferred and thought was better. Those decisions layed the groundwork for subsequent adminitrations make even more, and far more dramatic, changes to the nature of our nation and society. To where today, it is no longer, even vaguely, what it was even 50 years ago. There are some who fully support that change, just as many who abhor it, and of course, just as many, still, who want something in between and of course many have no clue whatsoever. (Those that simply want the light to come on when the flip a switch, water to run when they turn on the faucet, grocery stores full of all the food the want, toys in the garage and a nice vacation every summer.)

So there you go...clear as mud. :shock:

I agree that the political is almost imposable to steer clear of for a very rounded discussion. But I also think you can decouple any current political rhetoric from the discussion and only bring in politics when required as a supporting example or point.

 

[CottageFarm]

I'm thinking you could grow a smallish patch of alfalfa, mow it by hand & just pile it like they used to...didn't mean real "bales" necessarily. Of course, trading with neighbors would be an option as well.
We're such a small operation, I still find sileage very intimidating. We do almost everything around here with 1940's technology 'cause it's cheap (and so am I)

 

[3legdonkey]

I'm thinking you could grow a smallish patch of alfalfa, mow it by hand & just pile it like they used to...
That is true. I did read in "All flesh is Grass" where the author had gotten pretty good at making old style hay stacks.

We're such a small operation, I still find sileage very intimidating. We do almost everything around here with 1940's technology 'cause it's cheap (and so am I)

Here is a link where they figure out how to do it using plastic bags. I cannot find the link on how to do it in barrels right now. But I believe I may try it this year for fun. Grin.
http://www.smallstock.info/tools/feed/silage/lbs02.htm

 

[cowman]

If the economy gets to bad, they will still ya chickens. Watcha going to do then

 

[3legdonkey]

If the economy gets to bad, they will still (steal?) ya chickens. Watcha going to do then

Had the rainbow family set up camp for a week about a mile down the river a few years ago. Many things were lifted in the area that week but nothing came up missing on my farm. There are ways to let people know they are not welcome... Grin.

 

[CottageFarm]

If the economy gets to bad, they will still ya chickens. Watcha going to do then

I thought that was why they invented bird shot.... :cowboy:

 

[Chevy]

So didn't like the "idear" of just trading instead of money. Tootie fin' fruity that was the best I had in years and smoke was rollin' out both my ears like a freight train! :lol2:
*sign*
Super barbie

 

[ANAZAZI]

So didn't like the "idear" of just trading instead of money. Tootie fin' fruity that was the best I had in years and smoke was rollin' out both my ears like a freight train! :lol2:
*sign*
Super barbie