Castrating and Dehorning Questions

[jcarkie]

i use the cheerio bander when they are little, easier in me and them.i dehorn at 3 months when i work them, i have considered cutting them at the same time but. i will chime in on the big banders, they have a better chance of getting tetnus if you let them get to big.my vet said to make sure you give tetnus shots prior.

 

[certherfbeef]

Most of my bull calves are bandedjust before or at weaning depends where they are going. The ones that are cheerioed at birth are because they are destined to be "show" steers and will be weaned at 4 months. Once they are in the barn I don't have time to deal with weaning stress AND castrating stress.
Dehorning is done 9 times out of 10 on the ground the day they are born. I use butane, works well on the horned herfs. Havn't stunted or missed one yet.

As for where, I work cows alone (well the dog helps). If it isn't done on the ground w/in the first week of their lives, it gets done in the chute.

 

[cfpinz]

I band all of the bull calves at birth with the small bander. If I need to band a bigger calf we have an EZE castrator. Works very well on just about anything. I know some folks like to delay castrating and this is supposed to produce a heavier steer at saletime, has anyone here done their own experiment along those lines? Also, some prefer to cut rather than band-personal preference or is there some other reason?

 

[Ryder]

I always vaccinate/ivomec separately from dehorning/castrating. I've been told by several vets, as well as drug sheets/drug reps, that high stress can reduce the effectiveness of vaccines.

On the castrating side, I always castrate with them standing, unless they happen to be particularly rowdy, then I rope and throw em. I usually just run a fence post behind their legs to prevent them from kicking.

I'm with Sidney on the calf table. I tried one and found it was just in the way. Slowed down things, and the longer it takes to work the calves, the more stress.

Rod

Good idea aboout fence post between their legs. Never thought of that. Thanks.

 

[MR3]

I have banded my share and would prefer to cut them. If you have help I think throwing them is the easiest way to get at them. I think cutting is a lot easier on them and less chance of infection, but I don't keep them in a pen either. They go back in the field with mom and with hardly any stress on them. After banding they will lay around for a couple days cause they don't fell good, while a part of them is rotting off and risking infection.

Rod

 

[msscamp]

After banding they will lay around for a couple days cause they don't fell good, while a part of them is rotting off and risking infection.

Rod

Hmmmm, your calves must be a lot different than ours. After banding ours are right up there nursing and bellying up to the bunks. No laying around whatsoever - in fact, if one didn't know they had been banded one couldn't tell it was anything other than a usual day in their lives. Come to think of it, banded my bottle baby Christmas week. He was eating the whole time he was being banded, never missed a feeding afterwards or showed any signs anything had happened. As far as infection is concerned, never had one from banding and we've been doing it this way for many years.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Rod (uh oh, two Rods. This could get confusing), are you speaking of calves done with the large elastrators? Or are you speaking of newborns done with the little green Cheerios?

The only time I've ever seen calves laying around after being banded was when they were a couple hundred pounds and the neighbor used Cheerio bands.

Rod Of The Earless Critter

 

[MR3]

Msscamp>
Don't know that my calves are a lot different. Maybe the age we band may differ.
I would think banding on your bottle baby and new borns would be less stressful the younger they are. Maybe that's why you didn't notice the discomfort in your baby. I try to get mine all at the same time if possible and they are usually at a couple hundred pounds by then. I banded six late calves this fall and they all acted poorly for a couple days. It seemed like it took a long time for them to wilt and drop off too. Plus some turned red above the band and gave me a scare. Maybe it's the old case of what works for one doesn't for another. Good luck!

DiamondSCattleCo>
Rod > Good name! I have used the cheerio banders, but not in the last three years. Also have the elastracator and a California bander. I don't see that your neighbors calves were in more discomfort because of the cheerio than any other band. Just the results of being banded.

Rod

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I don't see that your neighbors calves were in more discomfort because of the cheerio than any other band. Just the results of being banded.

The way I've been told, and its always possible that the guy who told me this was full of crap (but he's usually pretty good), is the the cheerio on large balls is simply too small. It snaps on, causing immediate, excrutiating pain from pinching skin layers together and puts them down. Even the makers of the cheerios say not to use them on calves over 200 lbs. Compare this to an elastrator, whose band is wide and doesn't exert quite as much force on the sack. When putting it on, the tightening force is a little more gradual and is more of a discomfort.

As far as cherrioing newborns, there is virtually no discomfort as quite often, the cheerios don't even fit tight around the sack. The sack grows into it, gradually cutting off blood flow and it falls off.

As you say, everyones mileage may vary I've cut for years, but had idiots go and lay down in the only pile of manure for a mile and get infected too so I think its one of those times when there just isn't a right way/wrong way.

Rod

 

[msscamp]

Msscamp>
Don't know that my calves are a lot different. Maybe the age we band may differ.
I would think banding on your bottle baby and new borns would be less stressful the younger they are. Maybe that's why you didn't notice the discomfort in your baby. I try to get mine all at the same time if possible and they are usually at a couple hundred pounds by then. I banded six late calves this fall and they all acted poorly for a couple days. It seemed like it took a long time for them to wilt and drop off too. Plus some turned red above the band and gave me a scare. Maybe it's the old case of what works for one doesn't for another. Good luck!

Rod

That could be. We don't band at birth - they are usually between a month or two old, although my bucket calve was 5-6 months old (just didn't it done earlier ). I can see where a calf turning red above the band would be cause for serious concern! Good luck with your cattle!

PS I didn't mean to sound like a smarty pants or anything. I didn't phrase my first response very well and I apologize for that.

 

[jaydill]

Had mine banded the day I got him. Since he was for show, I was able to keep an eye on it everyday when I washed him but I never had a problem with infection. When it got closer to time for the boys to fall off, I just rinsed them with water each day(as the skin was a little open) and it kept it clean. I'm glad I had him banded rather than castrated; he showed no signs of stress whatsoever and all I had to do was scoop them up within a couple of weeks.

 

[kvcanes]

We've employed several methods of castration. We've banded at birth, at 2-3 months, and around weaning time. We have also cut the calves at 2-3 months of age. In my opinion banding them at birth is the best method to adopt. First, the calf is still in a daze from entering the world and banding does not appear to phase them. Secondly, if we banded at 2-3 months then we did them in a chute where it seems to be more difficult for them to retract one or both seeds. We got away from cutting because of the open wound issue. However, you can have problems banding if you do not completely clear both seeds. Finally, the last two years we have banded at or around weaning time with a calicrate bander and given a tetnis shot after the band was placed. The calves appear to be effected for 30 minutes to an hour, then they are back in the creep feeder like nothing happened. The sacks usually fall off between 4-8 weeks so plan accordingly with your sale dates. I asked a leading expert at the University of Missouri if leaving the bulls intact until weaning allowed the calves to put on more weight vs. castrating early and implanting. He indicated that the performance was virtually the same with either method. Having done both I would agree however, I may deviate a little and say that bulls left in tact appear to have more muscle at weaning. However, if you leave the bull in tact, then you have to be aware of the pitfalls involved. We experienced that when a cow cycles all the little bull calves chase her around acting like bulls should. Or they are standing at the fence moaning at the neighbors herd. They are losing weight doing this because their hormones are overriding their urge to eat. In addition, you have a better chance of a heifer calf that cycles early getting bred.

From a management and work efficiency standpoint banding at birth is the best alternative in my opinion. It also tends to create the least amount of stress on the calf. At least that's the experience we've had.

I band all of the bull calves at birth with the small bander. If I need to band a bigger calf we have an EZE castrator. Works very well on just about anything. I know some folks like to delay castrating and this is supposed to produce a heavier steer at saletime, has anyone here done their own experiment along those lines? Also, some prefer to cut rather than band-personal preference or is there some other reason?