"Carnavore's" view of the cattle business..

[Carnivore]

hummmmmmm
seems like you are having a lot of problems with your so called natural selection process of breeding animal care!

if i was having these problems i would definatly be looking for a reason.

how do you cull? sell any at the barn or do you just kill all your culls for hamburger?

1:I let my feelings for this cow, (it was my first calf I raised myself) interfere with my logic. I should have culled it last year, instead of slaughtering the other heifer that neither my wife or I liked because it was loud and obnoxious, (but a good mother).

how do you know it was a good mother?

2:i kind of thought that is what I did. When the calf was born I was heading off to work, and figured mom would take care of her little calf. 10 hours later, when I returned home and found that the calf still was in distress, wasn't up and hadn't received the colostrum it needed, I came on this board to ask for some quick advice, as to whether or not the calf had a chance of making it. If not, I would put it down.

almost animal cruelity

calling out anguslimo?
boy i bet tha makes you feel like a BIG MAN

Thirdly, is the financial aspect. The day, (yesterday) I made a cool grand doing what I do for a living. Trying to save a $200 calf at the expense of a thousand dollars isn't good economics. I suspect even you can figure that one out. It was not about being lazy.

more like being irresponsible

am no totally sure you need to be in the business

Taken in order:

I cull by shooting them, and either butchering myself or having the truck come and shoot them, and take them to the butcher. Either way, the outcome is the same.

It was a good mother, because it had previously had two calves and no problem with them. She was a purebred shorthorn, and the oldest cow we had, so she went. The other candidate at the time was the mother of the calf in question, who is 1/2 angus and 1/2 shorthorn.

In fact, our plans were to take her too, but because we could not get a slaughter truck out to kill her and dress her, and take her to the butcher, we decided to keep her. As it turns out, she was one month pregnate by her son, (who the vet said was likely sterile).

What I did was no more irresponsible than the rancher who has a large herd, and goes checks on his cows once a day, even while calving. When I left the calf with the mother, it had just been born, and I had no reason to believe that it would not get on it's feet and start nursing.

As far as calling out AngusLimoX, that is between he and I. Of what concern is it of yours?

 

[Carnivore]

I would rather kill the calf it it cannot survive on it's own, than bottle feed it. Take it out of the gene pool, so the herd will get stronger. WTF. Unless it is a pet, you are going to kill it anyway. I felt no worse or better about putting a bullet into the calf's head, as I have when I killed our other cattle for our own consumption.

Your logic is running on a completely different road than everyone else's. Give the calf some TLC, feed it up, and if you really don't want the calf, you can sell it so it ends up in the feedlots or you can butcher it yourself. It's a no-brainer. No one ever said you had to keep the calf and allow it to reproduce in your herd. :roll:

As previously stated, I prefer to kill my cows if necessary to eliminate poor blood stock, rather than nurse them along and perpetuate a weak heard.

Same again -- just ship the cow after you've doctored it back to health -- why even entertain the notion of having to KEEP it?

I also admit that I would not have had yesterdays problem if I would have simply let the cow reject the bull calf two years ago, but my nurturing side told me to intervene.

Wrong. If you'd shipped the calf when it was weaned you wouldn't have the problem to begin with. You would have made some money in the process too.

On the topic of vaccinations -- don't give me that nonsense about not being allowed to vaccinate when running an organic herd. I've discussed it recently and while you are NOT allowed to use antibiotics, you are allowed to vaccinate. And you'd BETTER be able to vaccinate, as you can prevent most problems by vaccinating. Footrot, blackleg, some types of pnemonia and 'shipping fever', some types of mastitis and scours, reproductive diseases...the list goes on. Operating on the theory of 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' -- if you can't use the CURE (antibiotics) for bacterial diseases, you'd better be able to use the PREVENTION (vaccinations). It's a scary enough thought to be unable to use antibiotics; without the ability to vaccinate you are going to go down, it's only a matter of time.

Taken in order:

My logic is counter to others likely because I do not share the same lifestyle as others here. I have (as we speak) three cows. I am not in the business to make money, and what I do with my time is my business. I prefer not to nursemade calves. I repeat, I do not do this for a living, simply to have a supply of chemical free, grass fed beef for my family and some friends. The minimum amount of time and energy into this endeavor, the better. The hours spent bottle feeding a calf just to be able to sell it for a small amount of money is hours spent not doing what I want to do with my life.

Next three paragraphs, same answer as above. Someone who is working a ranch daily obviously has the time to devote to nursing a calf, I don't.

I will take your comments about vaccination under advisement, after doing some research.

It is my understanding that most diseases cows get, they catch from other cows. If my cows are healthy, (never had one sick in the past 6 years), and they never see another cow, then the risk of them catching diseases would seem to be minimal.

I did buy a bull a few months ago, and he was vaccinated before entering my herd.

When I purchase a couple more cows this fall, I will make sure they have been vaccinated too.

 

[Alice]

hummmmmmm
seems like you are having a lot of problems with your so called natural selection process of breeding animal care!

if i was having these problems i would definatly be looking for a reason.

how do you cull? sell any at the barn or do you just kill all your culls for hamburger?

1:I let my feelings for this cow, (it was my first calf I raised myself) interfere with my logic. I should have culled it last year, instead of slaughtering the other heifer that neither my wife or I liked because it was loud and obnoxious, (but a good mother).

how do you know it was a good mother?

2:i kind of thought that is what I did. When the calf was born I was heading off to work, and figured mom would take care of her little calf. 10 hours later, when I returned home and found that the calf still was in distress, wasn't up and hadn't received the colostrum it needed, I came on this board to ask for some quick advice, as to whether or not the calf had a chance of making it. If not, I would put it down.

almost animal cruelity

calling out anguslimo?
boy i bet tha makes you feel like a BIG MAN

Thirdly, is the financial aspect. The day, (yesterday) I made a cool grand doing what I do for a living. Trying to save a $200 calf at the expense of a thousand dollars isn't good economics. I suspect even you can figure that one out. It was not about being lazy.

more like being irresponsible

am no totally sure you need to be in the business

Taken in order:

I cull by shooting them, and either butchering myself or having the truck come and shoot them, and take them to the butcher. Either way, the outcome is the same.

It was a good mother, because it had previously had two calves and no problem with them. She was a purebred shorthorn, and the oldest cow we had, so she went. The other candidate at the time was the mother of the calf in question, who is 1/2 angus and 1/2 shorthorn.

In fact, our plans were to take her too, but because we could not get a slaughter truck out to kill her and dress her, and take her to the butcher, we decided to keep her. As it turns out, she was one month pregnate by her son, (who the vet said was likely sterile).

What I did was no more irresponsible than the rancher who has a large herd, and goes checks on his cows once a day, even while calving. When I left the calf with the mother, it had just been born, and I had no reason to believe that it would not get on it's feet and start nursing.

As far as calling out AngusLimoX, that is between he and I. Of what concern is it of yours?

Alice

 

[Carnivore]

once again milkmaid comes thru with the most intelligent post here

The bar was not very high... :lol:

 

[dun]

As it turns out, she was one month pregnate by her son, (who the vet said was likely sterile).

Likely doesn't mean absolutlely. Most with a retained nut are sterile, but every once in awhile they may still slip enough healthy swimmers to get the job done.
You keep trying to make it sound like the vet was at fault. He wasn't!

dun

 

[Caustic Burno]

As it turns out, she was one month pregnate by her son, (who the vet said was likely sterile).

Likely doesn't mean absolutlely. Most with a retained nut are sterile, but every once in awhile they may still slip enough healthy swimmers to get the job done.
You keep trying to make it sound like the vet was at fault. He wasn't!

dun

Dun the boy is as screwed up as a soup sandwich.

 

[Carnivore]

As it turns out, she was one month pregnate by her son, (who the vet said was likely sterile).

Likely doesn't mean absolutlely. Most with a retained nut are sterile, but every once in awhile they may still slip enough healthy swimmers to get the job done.
You keep trying to make it sound like the vet was at fault. He wasn't!

dun

No, but if he had told me that there was a pretty good likelyhood he was fertile, or was a risky proposition to leave him with fertile cows, then I would have culled. I don't blame the vet, but also do not feel real guilty about the unwanted pregnacy. For what it is worth, he never got the job done with the other cow in the pen, but it wasn't for lack of trying.

 

[Carnivore]

As it turns out, she was one month pregnate by her son, (who the vet said was likely sterile).

Likely doesn't mean absolutlely. Most with a retained nut are sterile, but every once in awhile they may still slip enough healthy swimmers to get the job done.
You keep trying to make it sound like the vet was at fault. He wasn't!

dun

Dun the boy is as screwed up as a soup sandwich.

CB:

Kiss my a$$... (too bad there isn't an emoticon for that!)

:lol:

 

[Caustic Burno]

From what I have read I could pick any spot and I would be on target.

 

[Anonymous]

when the heck is this dumb sh!t going to get banned? Am I the only one that's annoyed by him?

 

[Carnivore]

From what I have read I could pick any spot and I would be on target.

At least you are saying something with some substance now...

 

[Carnivore]

when the heck is this dumb sh!t going to get banned? Am I the only one that's annoyed by him?

Interesting. I post an honest question for some help with a distressed calf, and get attacked by several who do not know the whole story.

I respond to these attacks, (most of the time very civilly, I might ad) and when I wasn't it was simply in response to an obvious flame.

Now, folks are calling for me being banned!!!

Amazing.

You may not agree with me, but at least I am honest here.

And, frankly, I believe there are several readers who are actually learning something from this discourse.

 

[Anonymous]

when the heck is this dumb sh!t going to get banned? Am I the only one that's annoyed by him?

Interesting. I post an honest question for some help with a distressed calf, and get attacked by several who do not know the whole story.

I respond to these attacks, (most of the time very civilly, I might ad) and when I wasn't it was simply in response to an obvious flame.

Now, folks are calling for me being banned!!!

Amazing.

You may not agree with me, but at least I am honest here.

And, frankly, I believe there are several readers who are actually learning something from this discourse.

well I aint too sure how "honest" you are, but I don't care about your honest question post, I gave you an honest answer on it, and I've already been honest with you, I think you're an idiot, plain and simple, and you tell people it aint their concern when you call people out, what good does calling somebody out do? He told you how it was, who cares, get over it...but "calling" somebody out makes you look like a hard ass right? :roll: Yup, the biggest coward in the world can call somebody out but it doesn't make him a mad now does it? I think you got your priorities all mixed up buckaroo...and you're right, I don't agree with you, I don't even agree that your honest either, seems like you dropped your candy in the sandbox with your post about natural selection, kind of mixed the definition of "natural" up in your head I reckon