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Carcass data

Wisteria Farms

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OK folks...here's a new "pondering" of mine...
In Australia, Murray Grey's kick butt in carcass competitions (I think they have in Canada as well). How could this be done in the U.S....I mean... I'm totally unfamiliar with that aspect of owning cattle but can someone explain to me:
1. Who holds Carcass Competitions? State Fairs?
2. Do you enter as you would a show class?
3. Can you get carcass data from a butcher?
Any info is greatly appreciated...I'm admitting my ignorance on this subject so please only well-meaning advice...
 

aussie_cowgirl

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In Aus:
Carcass competitions are done at most shows. Mainly the state ones though. They normally set it up as a hoof and hook competition where the animal is judged as mentioned, on the hoof and then on the hook. They are all auctioned off at the show. The data is supplied to us a few days after the killing (all the animals are killed at the same abattoir so it's all tested and compiled there) and we get feedback on all the carcass qualities and the hook placings.

As well as hoof and hook classes there are trade steer events as well which is the same as above but they're unbroken steers.

I wish I had the sheets from my steers from when I used to show, I would scan it and you could see what they're judged on. Its like, dressing %, fat colour and amt, eye muscle area, marbling, etc etc.
 

Keren

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aussie_cowgirl":yl3p0b36 said:
I wish I had the sheets from my steers from when I used to show, I would scan it and you could see what they're judged on. Its like, dressing %, fat colour and amt, eye muscle area, marbling, etc etc.

I have some somewhere, I'm sure, might be able to dig them up later
 

Wisteria Farms

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Wow...thanks for the info...
I guess my next question then would be... is there anyone on these boards who is into doing these competitions who would know what ones are upcomming for 2009 or 2010? Doesn't matter where at...just anything at all in the United States.
 

aussie_cowgirl

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I can't help you there sorry... They're a great competition. An animal that did nothing in the ring can often be highly placed on the hook and visa versa. Very rarely do I see placings similar on the hoof AND the hook.
 

Wisteria Farms

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Also, how about the value of ultrasound...
I'm asking because my bull WAS ultrasounded at the bull test... I know his REA, IM Fat, etc.
With regard to breeding for carcass qualities how do you select the FEMALES...do you just "wait and see" which matings produce the best steer's carcasses or rely on GeneStar/Igenity results? If I put my bull on 15 females I'm trying to decide which calves might be "prospects" for the competitions...Do you GeneStar the steers and send the ones with the best results? I understand when talking Hoof & Hook that I'm only referring to the "Hook" part but thats where I'm the most "lost"... :oops:

Geesh I hope I'm making myself clear..
 

aussie_cowgirl

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I'm not sure what other people do but we just took nice commercial steers and fed them up. A lot of the entrants were stud breeders so I am sure they would have looked into that sort of thing. But for us it was a lot of guess work. :roll:
 

dun

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It's small time but our local fair uses ultrasound for 40% (I think that's the percentage) of the overall score for a market calf.
We used to ultrasound our heifers at weaning to make decisions on who stayed and who didn;t. Now that we pretty much know which cow/bull combination does what we don;t do it anymore.
 

Wisteria Farms

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dun":1pfo6vu9 said:
It's small time but our local fair uses ultrasound for 40% (I think that's the percentage) of the overall score for a market calf.
We used to ultrasound our heifers at weaning to make decisions on who stayed and who didn;t. Now that we pretty much know which cow/bull combination does what we don;t do it anymore.
Well, without ultrasound what do you think of the "pelvimeter" tool...good thing or not? I've got a couple of "questionables" (just not real wide back there) and considered getting one but they're a little expensive...I think $179??? So I put it off but would invest in one if I heard they were worth the money and not a piece of junk.
 

Frankie

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Wisteria Farms":2f1kpoh3 said:
OK folks...here's a new "pondering" of mine...
In Australia, Murray Grey's kick butt in carcass competitions (I think they have in Canada as well). How could this be done in the U.S....I mean... I'm totally unfamiliar with that aspect of owning cattle but can someone explain to me:
1. Who holds Carcass Competitions? State Fairs?
2. Do you enter as you would a show class?
3. Can you get carcass data from a butcher?
Any info is greatly appreciated...I'm admitting my ignorance on this subject so please only well-meaning advice...

Our local fair doesn't have a carcass competition. The kids usually take the calves on to the state fair.

But some counties do. The Pontotoc County Extension Office runs a carcass program for youngsters:

http://www.adaeveningnews.com/agnews/lo ... 20600.html

Talk to your extension agent and see if he/she knows of any place that does this type of thing.

Also here in OK, the Noble Foundation sponsors a program for kids. They take the calves in and weigh them at weaning (has to be halter broke), take him home and feed him, and on a certain date they bring him back for a last weight and he's shipped for processing. The packer sends the results back to the Noble Foundation who has some sort of awards program. We've never been involved, but one of our neighbors did it a couple of years with his Herefords.

Noble: http://www.noble.org/Ag/JrBeef/index.html

But you should know that feeding and management are as important in carcass competitons as actual genetics.
 

showing71

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Wisteria Farms":19ib80v0 said:
Wow...thanks for the info...
I guess my next question then would be... is there anyone on these boards who is into doing these competitions who would know what ones are upcomming for 2009 or 2010? Doesn't matter where at...just anything at all in the United States.
Last I knew, AKSARBEN 4-H show does a carcass contest, but you have to be a 4-Her in certain surrounding states to be able to compete...
 

donnaIL

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No disrepect intended but..

My question is who cares? No one I sell beef to cares about carcass data..they just want it to taste good.

We bought a bull from a sale that had test data, like any pure bred animal had...the people here didn't like him...infact that banned person made a contest of it. Pictures can be enhanced or even staged. Plenty of frame 4 perfect animals out there...when I saw a future direction, perfect register bull go through the sale barn weighing 1250 lbs at 3+ yrs old knew it was not for me. Yes he looked good.

I pay to collect data on our slaughter animals that we sell for beef. I was happy that they graded choice and were a YG2. Last year was select with YG1. I am working for the YG1 choice or better. Our bull that no one liked is in the 1 percentile for IMF..he was a 6 percent..so this years calves will tell if it works.

I personally think this last "choice" animal we harvested was too fat and I mean I am the chef*L*
 

Frankie

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Wisteria Farms":30gmxxjq said:
Also, how about the value of ultrasound...
I'm asking because my bull WAS ultrasounded at the bull test... I know his REA, IM Fat, etc.
With regard to breeding for carcass qualities how do you select the FEMALES...do you just "wait and see" which matings produce the best steer's carcasses or rely on GeneStar/Igenity results? If I put my bull on 15 females I'm trying to decide which calves might be "prospects" for the competitions...Do you GeneStar the steers and send the ones with the best results? I understand when talking Hoof & Hook that I'm only referring to the "Hook" part but thats where I'm the most "lost"... :oops:

Geesh I hope I'm making myself clear..

We have our heifers ultrasounded, too. All the data goes into the "pot" for breed carcass EPDs.
 

Wisteria Farms

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donnaIL":3cvzcydz said:
No disrepect intended but..

My question is who cares? No one I sell beef to cares about carcass data..they just want it to taste good.

We bought a bull from a sale that had test data, like any pure bred animal had...the people here didn't like him...infact that banned person made a contest of it. Pictures can be enhanced or even staged. Plenty of frame 4 perfect animals out there...when I saw a future direction, perfect register bull go through the sale barn weighing 1250 lbs at 3+ yrs old knew it was not for me. Yes he looked good.

I pay to collect data on our slaughter animals that we sell for beef. I was happy that they graded choice and were a YG2. Last year was select with YG1. I am working for the YG1 choice or better. Our bull that no one liked is in the 1 percentile for IMF..he was a 6 percent..so this years calves will tell if it works.

I personally think this last "choice" animal we harvested was too fat and I mean I am the chef*L*

Donna, No disrespect towards you either but I'm not looking to market "carcass data" to my customers...you're right..they don't understand numbers/give a hoot as long as it tastes good. Carcass data is for the BEEF producer wanting to "hedge his bets" that the consumer is getting what they want by culling animals who fall short. If Murray Grey's are winning carcass competitions in OTHER countries, then it would be a strong MARKETING tool to start entering/winning here in the U.S. as well...Look on the various associations websites...all breeds are going to tout that they have animals with good temperment, calving ease, blah, blah, blah...so if theres something that sets a breed apart then it needs to be strongly promoted...that's why I care...

Now, I'm not understanding your post... you bought a bull from a sale and people near you didn't like him...(I'm assuming they didn't like his appearance? as you surely didn't slaughter your bull) Well, no...the best beef bulls generally arent the prettiest...you're comparing apples to oranges. You say you pay to collect data on your slaughter animals that you sell for beef...then you obviously care (as a PRODUCER). Just conversation here...not meaning to offend either.
 

hillsdown

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I wish at some point here in Canada that we could look up our RFID tag number of one of our feeders and get all the data on it. Average daily weight gain , were they all healthy, the grades at slaughter etc.

I hope in the future they at least give us something useful in return for all of our extra work. That would be a great idea don't you think? Everything at your finger tips and you could improve your herd as required with the daily demand of the consumer.


That just makes way to much sense for it ever to happen.. :lol2:
 

aussie_cowgirl

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You mean like we have the compulsory NLIS tag system here in Australia? We started using it on the feedlot for recording dates and weights and things...
 

hillsdown

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Exactly cowgirl, then as the producer of the animal to begin with I would just enter the original # that I gave it and registered with the animal identification agency and find out all of your data as well. Then when the animal is processed I can find out the hanging weight and carcass data because that will have been entered under the original RFID number as well as being cross referenced with each additional tag . It sounds complicated but with all the programs that have and are being created it will be very simple to do, and should not be an added expense either.
 

aussie_cowgirl

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No I think it's a great idea. There were a few people against it but I am a fan of the NLIS system we have here, the tags kind of act as a back up drive. The start up costs of a scheme like that are big but the benefits from it are great. If you're at a massive sale and the yard workers can just scan him and give the buyers information in an instant, I mean, that's brilliant. It gives you an added depth in knowledge of an animal.
 
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