Canning beans.....................

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And not to mention that 3waycross retired from the food service business and knows foods like TB knows mineral.
CottageFarm, thanks for posting, I've decided to ignore the knowitall fool myself.
 
3waycross":3kiqamdo said:
Not telling anyone how to put up their beans but We lost a whole family of cousins to botulism before I was born from home canned green beans. We blanch them and freeze them....I won't even consider any other way.
Same here.
Green beans are low acid, so they have to either be blanched and frozen or properly pressure canned. Hot water bath alone, then canned won't do it. I just don't trust canning low acid produce..not worth the risk.

More people get botulism from home canned green beans than any other canned produce, probably because they are so easy to grow. Cook them long enough tho, and the higher temp and longer cooking time at that temp is 'supposed' to kill the botulism bacteria. Green beans is one of those things I just won't can.
 
Does Freezing Destroy Bacteria & Parasites?

Freezing to 0 °F inactivates any microbes — bacteria, yeasts and molds — present in food. Once thawed, however, these microbes can again become active, multiplying under the right conditions to levels that can lead to foodborne illness. Since they will then grow at about the same rate as microorganisms on fresh food, you must handle thawed items as you would any perishable food.

Trichina and other parasites can be destroyed by sub-zero freezing temperatures. However, very strict government-supervised conditions must be met. Home freezing cannot be relied upon to destroy trichina. Thorough cooking, however, will destroy all parasites.

USDA link.

Notice it says nothing about killing all bacteria. Always blanch your food products before freezing.
 
slick4591":v9nt7os9 said:
Notice it says nothing about killing all bacteria. Always blanch your food products before freezing.
[/quote]

How dirty are yalls dang beans???? Do you also blanch your raw chickens before you freeze? Do you blanch all your beef?
Who the F eats thawed frozen beans without cooking. See, heres where logic goes out and yall have to be right wins. Google google google
I really couldnt give a flip if you blanch or not....blanch all the heck you want. I'm just saying, its not necessary because you 'cook' the green beans before eating and it saves one step....Lord you'd think I was killing kittens and puppies...lol
 
CottageFarm":2ghuxo48 said:
To avoid the inevitable forthcoming bs from the princess, here is one link from a quick search..

So answer me this..I eat a lot of raw green beans. I was asked once if I had to live on one thing the rest of my life what would it be....I said, green beans..I've always loved them and one way is right out of the garden chopped in a salad...
The question is....if I wash (like I said to do before freezing) the green beans, do I also blanch before I eat them raw?
See, logic, its a good thing...
 
cowgirl8":226vd03s said:
slick4591":226vd03s said:
Notice it says nothing about killing all bacteria. Always blanch your food products before freezing.

How dirty are yalls dang beans???? Do you also blanch your raw chickens before you freeze? Do you blanch all your beef?
Who the F eats thawed frozen beans without cooking. See, heres where logic goes out and yall have to be right wins. Google google google
I really couldnt give a flip if you blanch or not....blanch all the heck you want. I'm just saying, its not necessary because you 'cook' the green beans before eating and it saves one step....Lord you'd think I was killing kittens and puppies...lol

You are completely missing the point. We are talking about the SAFEST way to freeze green beans when you are advocating something other than the SAFEST. Chicken is an entire different product and handled in a different way.
 
no, because the mechanics of botulism is different regarding stored (frozen & canned) foods than freshly eaten foods.
Comparing eating fresh foods to eating stored foods is comparing apples to oranges.
If freezing alone killed the botulism causing bacterium, there would be very little of it on and in the soil, as most places get freezing weather every year. It's the blanching that kills the bacteria and slows the enzyme action.
Probably safer eating washed fresh green beans than your washed frozen (unblanched) beans.
 
I am with greybeard, not worth the risk to water bath any low acid veg. Also I like the more firmness of the frozen. I do the french cut style, if the bean gets a little big and the seeds get a little big inside, the frencher will slice them into thinner strips and the bean inside gets sliced up too. The pieces will get left behind in the water when blanching. I have done both blanching and not, in the past and have found that the blanching makes the beans taste better. I believe it is from the stopping of the enzymes. Plus gets any bugs or worms and leaves them in the blanching water... As for the self defrost freezers, they will affect the quality of anything in the freezer by the very nature of removing the moisture. I only vacuum pack anything now that I freeze, and that stops the possibility of dehydration or freezer burn unless you get a pin hole in the bag. I have some vegs that I froze in 2013 that I found and they are nearly as good as the day they were frozen.
One thing also that I think you are not taking into consideration, freezing causes the cell walls to rupture so the green beans' cell walls are not as intact when they are frozen without blanching. So the product is also a little mushier once it cooks. If you heat after freezing the water in the ruptured cell wall leaks out leaving a less firm product. If you blanche it first, the heat does a different altering of the cell structure, and then when freezing after, it does not cause the cell walls to rupture, so the water does not cause the mushiness of the bean. I don't have the scientific explanation but that is the basics.

CG8, it doesn't matter how "dirty" the vegetable is, there are bacteria that are not visible. So blanching will also destroy any unseen bacteria that could lie dormant on the frozen green bean , which can cause it to degrade once defrosted. If the bean is eaten raw directly after washing or even from the garden directly, the bacteria is subject to your stomach acids and the heat that is generated through digestion. It is often rendered harmless that way. Greybeard is right on that also.

Also, any meat has different types of bacteria, and no one blanches it because it is usually cooked after thawing. The difference is that freezing does not affect the cell structure of meat like it does vegetables, so it is as much for quality of the bean as for the food safety/bacteria issue also.

I am wanting to try the freeze dried vegs if I could find someone who has one. I like the idea of not having to have to depend on the freezer in case of power outages. A generator is great but if you run out of fuel...you are out of luck. The freeze dried stuff would keep for years like canned stuff, and take up less space. I can most of my fruits, and have eaten them years later as long as the seal is good.
I have used the tattler lids for several years, they are great and once you get the hang of them, will last. The rubber gasket is also reuseable if you don't accidentaly cut it while unsealing a jar and they are not that expensive to replace. I also use the old style canning jars with the glass bail tops, and jar rubbers. They also are good and if the lid is loose, the food goes in the compost. It is nice to have alternatives to the metal lids. I have reused metal lids occasionally, mostly on things like jelly, although I do not process the jelly like they now recommend. I can remember when we used to seal the jelly jars with paraffin (wax).....
 
We do no real canning only pickling which is of course much safer. I does seem to me blanching beans and other vegetables increases the quality greatly. I don't have a link, just my observation.
With that said. I find it impossible to pick green beans or tomatoes or sweet corn or okra. Without eating a few.... right there in the garden.
 
I have eaten okra before, right off of the stalk, but I don't attempt to claim it's safe.
I still work outside sometimes in thunderstorms if I feel it's necessary, even after getting hit by lightning, but I always caution others not to.
 
Been eating canned beans all my life. Spotless clean jars. new lids, and pressure cook them according to direction. Never hot water bath can them.
 
Farmerjan I agree with everything you wrote but this

"Also, any meat has different types of bacteria, and no one blanches it because it is usually cooked after thawing. The difference is that freezing does not affect the cell structure of meat like it does vegetables, so it is as much for quality of the bean as for the food safety/bacteria issue also.


Freezing does in fact affect the cell wall structure of meat. Especially improper freezing. The cardinal rule with meat is this; FREEZE FAST AND THAW SLOW. The closer you come to this paradigm the less cell wall rupture you will have upon thawing and in turn the less purge you will have. Ideally you would freeze a steak individually on a sheet pan and the second it is frozen you would vacuum seal it. THEN when you want to eat it you would pull it out of the freezer and let it that SLOWLY in the fridge for a couple of days. This is NOT cast in stone but it's a great rule to try to follow.
 
Dave":2zn945ei said:
Been eating canned beans all my life. Spotless clean jars. new lids, and pressure cook them according to direction. Never hot water bath can them.

Probably why your still alive.LOLOL
 
greybeard":3vs0h8mm said:
I have eaten okra before, right off of the stalk, but I don't attempt to claim it's safe.
I still work outside sometimes in thunderstorms if I feel it's necessary, even after getting hit by lightning, but I always caution others not to.

For liability reasons i never said it was safe.
I don't ever just lean over and bite it off the stalk like some kinda animal. I pick it with my hands
And maybe wipe it on my shirt first.

I have provided a link on lightning safety
https://www.safetyservicescompany.com/t ... uidelines/
 
callmefence":1wr1awmb said:
greybeard":1wr1awmb said:
I have eaten okra before, right off of the stalk, but I don't attempt to claim it's safe.
I still work outside sometimes in thunderstorms if I feel it's necessary, even after getting hit by lightning, but I always caution others not to.

For liability reasons i never said it was safe.
I don't ever just lean over and bite it off the stalk like some kinda animal. I pick it with my hands
And maybe wipe it on my shirt first.

I have provided a link on lightning safety
https://www.safetyservicescompany.com/t ... uidelines/

Do you wipe off your hands or the vegetable? How well does using your shirt of wipe on work? Personally I use my pant leg.
 
Dave":1r0fj9kc said:
callmefence":1r0fj9kc said:
greybeard":1r0fj9kc said:
I have eaten okra before, right off of the stalk, but I don't attempt to claim it's safe.
I still work outside sometimes in thunderstorms if I feel it's necessary, even after getting hit by lightning, but I always caution others not to.

For liability reasons i never said it was safe.
I don't ever just lean over and bite it off the stalk like some kinda animal. I pick it with my hands
And maybe wipe it on my shirt first.

I have provided a link on lightning safety
https://www.safetyservicescompany.com/t ... uidelines/

Do you wipe off your hands or the vegetable? How well does using your shirt of wipe on work? Personally I use my pant leg.

I wipe of the vegetables. I will use my pants leg as well. If I'm wearing pants.
 
I hadn't checked in for a couple of days and this thread has taken off off. :lol: I opened a quart of the beans in the picture tonight and ate about half of them. I am not dead yet and I hope I make it til morning. Beans IMO needs pressured 10 pounds until up to pressure and then cooked at least another 20 minutes and they will seal good and taste good...no hot water bath. I really don't like to hot water bath anything...just put 5 pound pressure and take it off immediately usually want cook anything to death and will seal the lids good and be safe.
 
3waycross":1yc1uj9u said:
Farmerjan I agree with everything you wrote but this

"Also, any meat has different types of bacteria, and no one blanches it because it is usually cooked after thawing. The difference is that freezing does not affect the cell structure of meat like it does vegetables, so it is as much for quality of the bean as for the food safety/bacteria issue also.


Freezing does in fact affect the cell wall structure of meat. Especially improper freezing. The cardinal rule with meat is this; FREEZE FAST AND THAW SLOW. The closer you come to this paradigm the less cell wall rupture you will have upon thawing and in turn the less purge you will have. Ideally you would freeze a steak individually on a sheet pan and the second it is frozen you would vacuum seal it. THEN when you want to eat it you would pull it out of the freezer and let it that SLOWLY in the fridge for a couple of days. This is NOT cast in stone but it's a great rule to try to follow.

I agree with you that freezing will affect the cell structure of meat. What I guess I didn't convey was that difference in the freezing of vegetables and freezing of meat is that the meat does not have the amount of water in the cell that the vegetables does. So it does not lose the shape or get as mushy as the vegetables do. The "like" that I used did not explain it very well. I just meant that they have a different type of cell structure so the freezing affects them differently.
I also agree that fast freezing is better. Hey, look at semen...if the freezing destroyed the cell walls like it does in vegetables, there would never be any A I done except with fresh not frozen semen. And you are right, that is frozen fast.... but it is also thawed fairly fast too.....
 

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