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Oldtimer

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Here is a post I pasted from ranchers.net that covers many of the feelings that I and many of my neighbors have had--- We're not trying to be anti anyone- Just have to be practical..

Column submittal of 09/09/04 by David Kruse, President, CommStock
Investments

Copyright 2004 @ CommStock Investments, Inc., David Kruse



Canadian cattlemen aren't one bit happy with the U.S., as we
haven't opened the border to live animals. Understandably they are in
financial agony from the collapse of their cattle market but blaming
the U.S. for their current misery is not fair.

>an
>'expletive' deleted Canadian cow. All animals confirmed with BSE on
>this continent were Canadian in origin. Science currently lays blame on
>lax Canadian feeding rules that allowed meat/bonemeal feeding to
>ruminant animals in Canada after the practice was ended in the U.S. No cow of U.S.
>origin has yet been confirmed with BSE. The Canadians screwed up and
>somehow or another they think we're unfair calling us protectionist.

> The Canadian border is not closed to beef trade, but U.S. beef
>exports have sure as heck been devastated by the Canadian origin
>BSE-positive cow found here.

> Nobody imported more beef this year into the U.S. than Canada, 522
>kmt in the first six months of 2004, up from 422 kmt the year previous.
>That was up 23.6% from 2003, representing 29% of all U.S. beef imports.
>The U.S.
>border is not closed to Canadian beef. We are taking more beef from
>Canada because they can't sell it to anybody else so we're taking
>everything they can produce up to their kill capacity. The U.S. beef
>market is wide open to Canadian beef imports that meet BSE risk
>material and age restrictions (and some the USDA missed that didn't).
>U.S. beef exports, however, have collapsed from 1.26 mmt in 2003 to
>only 155 kmt in a first half of this year comparison. We're only
>selling 12% of the previous year's exports.

> Why? Because of that 'expletive' deleted Canadian cow. The
>Canadians are mad because they can't send us more cattle without first
>guaranteeing that there aren't more cows like the one that ruined our
>market in Canada. U.S.
>beef imports for the period totaled 1.801 mmt. That's up 16% from last
>year.
>Our beef market is not closed. We're importing more beef than ever
>while our export market has collapsed. We imported 1.801 mmt beef and
>only exported
>155 kmt. Canadians are going to sue us under Chapter 12 of NAFTA
>because we haven't opened our border to live animals.
>
>
>
> Just what exactly do Canadian cattlemen expect of the U.S. industry?
>They
>ruin our exports, we're importing record amounts of Canadian beef while
>our beef market has been struggling to handle the current front end
>supply and we're bad guys because we don't want to let them dump live
>animals on an already depressed cash market before we've revived U.S. beef exports?
>
>
>
> They were the ones who destroyed our Asian export market, and they
>think having the patience to reopen it be before receiving full access
>to our cattle market in unreasonable. The financial stress they are
>experiencing has skewed their judgment. If I evaluate who should sue
>who, I believe it's the U.S. beef industry that's suffered damages from
>Canada. The NCBA wants the border opened to Canadian live imports. I
>think that we've done enough and the NCBA is insane. Until Asian export
>markets reopen we can't afford to produce more beef without serious
>market consequences here. Damaging the U.S. beef industry is not going
>to benefit the Canadian beef industry.
>
>
>
> The U.S. beef industry is struggling to hold itself up and rising
>feedlot breakevens loom over the U.S. cattle market like the Canadian
>Rockies. The U.S. has treated the Canadian cattle industry fairly. They
>made their own mess, created their own disaster and ruined our export
>market with theirs.
>
>
>
> They want to get mad? Bring it on, we've got plenty to be mad about
>too.
>Cargill/Excel and Tyson/IBP are running rampant over the Canadian
>industry, banking exorbitant profits buying Canadian cattle at
>depressed prices exporting the beef to U.S. markets, draining Canadian
>feedlot equity, discriminating against R-CALF members with Canadian
>cattle on feed (a violation of Packers and Stockyard's Act here), while
>hypocritically claiming they too want the border reopened. And shut off their gold mine?
>
>
>
> How much are they making? Enough to defy a contempt of Parliament
>order to keep it a secret. How much power do they have? Enough clout
>with Canadian politicians to cow-tow the Canadian government. If
>Canadian cattlemen think U.S. cattlemen are their problem, they'd
>better take a closer look as to who's screwing them.

>David Kruse is president of CommStock Investments,Inc., author and
>producer
 

Bez

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Well, let's see:

David Kruse neglects to mention a few things:

1. The "Canadian cow" located in Alberta was owned and fed by an American immigrant to Canada.

2. The "Canadian cow" found in Washington - where did it get this non-communicable disease?

Feed laws were changed some seven years ago. Who decided to ignore the bans?

Many here are beginning to think conspiracy - right or wrong that is the line of thought.

The above comments are not to generate anger - just comments that are now being looked at by the folks that wonder.

What is truly important is the fact that we have an identification process that can actually trace an animal back to its' origin - we prevented all of the American owned animal from Alberta from entering the commercial food chain. You do not have that capability, failed to do so with the Washington animal and in fact you SHOULD be copying our process if you are truly concerned about food safety

Quote - Canadian cattlemen aren't one bit happy with the U.S., as we
haven't opened the border to live animals. - end quote

While there is some truth to this, it has also opened a great many eyes in this country. There are many who will never forget the free trade agreement and how we (fools that we were) believed it was in the best interests of both countries to ship our live cattle south and allow processing to become foreign owned. I no longer await the border to open. Many of us no longer want to be held at risk again - we will find methods to go forward and succeed without the partner we once thought we had. We will be stronger for this. Blood brothers no more.

We may never have what we once had, but we who survive will also never allow this type of thing to happen again. We now know that free trade agreements are not worth the paper they are written on. Our processing capacity will be increased and we will compete once again in the international market place.

I am no longer angry - I am looking at different markets - as are others - perhaps Mr Kruse is wrong? Perhaps he is exaggerating? It makes for good press.

Let's talk protectionisitic for a moment. If anyone denies that - then they are are wearing blinders. But, that has also been a lesson in economics to us. You see, we developed our foreign markets in agreement with the U.S.of A. and the U.S. of A. was our largest - and by the way still is our largest trading partner - total Canadian exports into U.S. of A. We are also your largest trading partner - total U.S. of A. exports into Canada.

Unfortunately beef on the hoof is not part of that any more. In the end I actually have no problem with buying from the "home nation producers" first. That is why I would never consider buying U.S. grown food in this country if there is a Canadian alternative. In fact I find it easier every day to do without if there is no alternative.

If you want to talk about suing - let's look at all of the unsuccessful attempts by the U.S. to sue and add tariffs to products imported into their own county from Canada: Wheat, pork, soft wood lumber, and and so on. You folks never seem to stop. Funny, there has never been a complaint about our oil and natural gas. And, no suit that I know of has been successful to date. NAFTA is a joke and we all know it. Once again not worth the paper it is written on.

For whatever reason - the border was very close to opening - then R-CALF sued - and shut it down for certain. The reasons are not important - what is important is that a State government caused the Federal government to be over ridden. Such is life.

In the end, we are simply playing the game the U.S. of A. excels at. We may be slow learners, but we have learned.

Quote - we don't want to let them dump live
>animals on an already depressed cash market before we've revived U.S. beef exports? - end quote.

Depressed market? Wow, I wonder what a happy market is like? :) Be that as it may I am hearing nothing but reports of excellent prices. Is this man telling the truth? I think not.

We destroyed Asian markets? Well, if there is no export market, and there is a surplus of cattle in the U.S. - why is there such good pricing? In fact there is no export market for your cattle for other reasons as well.

The most important reason is that there are not enough cattle in the U.S. to support the domestic market and continue the foreign markets at previous volume and pace - even if the markets were available to you.

You people are huge - your population EATS all of your beef - you imported our cattle to process, eat and export - and you also exported your own beef. You are importing boxed Canuck beef - and yet you are still maintaining good pricing. It is my opinion only that you actually need this beef because you are not yet able to produce enough for your own population. It will come in time, but never forget we also import your beef today. What the actual numbers are - who cares. We are both obligated to do this under trade agreements.

Mr. Kruse comments about Tyson / Cargill and such are accurate. But they are U.S. companies. They HQ under the Stars and Stripes. Never forget that. We do not like it either, but he makes it look like they are Canadian companies. We producers are being raped and not even getting a kiss.

Discrimination against R-CALF cattle is true. I admit I support this discrimination.

R-CALF members have publicly stated Canadian cattle are diseased and pose a health risk. This has been and may still be their mantra. I strongly disagree with it. Yet R-CALF personnel are willing to buy Canadian cattle and profit at the expense of their fellow U.S. of A. countrymen. R-CALF members know full well this beef will be boxed and sent to their own country. So, they would put their own countrymen at risk for the sake of profit? (figure of speech)

Hmmm .... if the cattle are a disease risk and yet they (R-CALF members) are willing to buy this beef and have this beef shipped to the U.S. - who is the responsible and truthful organization? I wonder why your own producers have not railed against this deceitful action by R-CALF? I let you be the judge of that.

David Kruse is president of CommStock Investments,Inc - he may be a very honourable man - but his writings smack of a reporter who only wants one side of the story to be told.

There are two sides to every story - he is telling only one.

It is late and I have rambled on - I wonder if this thread will remain.

Regards

Bez
 

frenchie

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Oldtimers post..........All animals confirmed with BSE on
>this continent were Canadian in origin.

False The 1st case of b.s.e in Canada was an imported cow fom the U.K in the 90,s.


OT..............They want to get :mad: ? Bring it on, we've got plenty to be :mad: about
>too.
Cargill/Excel and Tyson/IBP are running rampant over the Canadian industry



So you are going to get :mad: at U.S companies,because they are buying cheaper beef in Canada and sending it south.
And yet R- calf is the one that got an injunction to help keep the border closed.
which is actually helping the packers......... :roll:




Ot..... discriminating against R-CALF members with Canadian
>cattle on feed :(


I wonder does he have cattle on feed in canada?

Frankly what did he expect WELCOME WAGON....... :D



OT......... The U.S. beef industry is struggling to hold itself up and rising
>feedlot breakevens loom over the U.S. cattle market



Now who created that situation, if you expect higher calf prices live with the consequences it has on the feedlots.The retail price of beef can only rise to a certain point ,before people turn to other meats.

OT..........The
>Canadians are :mad: because they can't send us more cattle without first
>guaranteeing that there aren't more cows like the one that ruined our
>market in Canada.


In a diease known to effect animals 30 months and over.What is the justification for closing the border to calves.

Have a nice day Oldtimer :)
 

la4angus

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Bez I have to agree with you 100%.

If anyone besides Macon deletes this post I have saved it and will post it again.

It was told to me tonite that the packers are making $400.00 to $500.00 per carcass on the boxed beef from Canada coming into the U.S. of A.
I reckon they would love to keep the border closed forever.
 

CattleAnnie

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My sentiments exactly, CRR, Bez, and Frenchie.

Aside from that I'm just sick and tired of the fingerpointing on both sides of the border.
As the old saying goes:
' When you point your finger at somone, there's going to be three pointing back at you. '

Nobody's perfect. We honestly never guessed BSE would happen to us. We had feed bans in place at the same time as you folks, and everything was tiptop...or so we thought. As I watched the news, I felt sorry for the farmers in Great Britian and Europe when they had outbreaks of BSE. But it was too far removed from us, too surreal for me to have ever imagined it happening here. At home.

The harsh reality is nobody's immune. Sorry to say, but not even you folks (and don't for one second imagine that I'd ever wish this disaster on you). I'm just being a realist.

Please take this advice from a concerned neighbour in the north:

1. Reduce your debt load now while the returns on cattle are good.

2. Cull your herd. Hard. You think you already cull hard? Then cull harder.

3. Try not to borrow money to buy cattle, especially while prices are high.

As bad as it's been up here in Canada since that one case of BSE, multiply it hundredfold and I'm afraid that's how damaging it would be in the US should an undisputably 'homegrown' case be diagnosed positive.

Take care of youselves.
 

Bez

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Actually BP I thought I did a better job than that.

In fact I was being completely open and honest - can you not see that, or are you that full of venom?

I was also being truthful.

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your thoughts on what I have written, and how I have written it.

One final piece of advice. When a disease hits - it hits hard. Beware if it happens in your country - no one - I repeat no one is immune.

I am sorry for you that you find it so easy to marginalize me when I tell the truth.

Bez
 

txshowmom

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I can only be responcible for what I do with my own herd. I can not controll what someone else does or feeds theri herd. I think that it is unfortunate the the entire country of Canada is bweing held responcible for the act of 1 rancher. We as people need to watch who we throw stones at, they might throw them back.
 

BLACKPOWER

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Bez":2ldsgjov said:
Actually BP I thought I did a better job than that.

In fact I was being completely open and honest - can you not see that, or are you that full of venom?

I was also being truthful.

Perhaps you need to re-evaluate your thoughts on what I have written, and how I have written it.

One final piece of advice. When a disease hits - it hits hard. Beware if it happens in your country - no one - I repeat no one is immune.

I am sorry for you that you find it so easy to marginalize me when I tell the truth.

Bez

You might call it truth I happen to see it the way Old Timers article was written. To me that's the truth and as far as I will concede.
 
OP
O

Oldtimer

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Bez":2fdk6hqh said:
Well, let's see:

David Kruse neglects to mention a few things:

1. The "Canadian cow" located in Alberta was owned and fed by an American immigrant to Canada.

2. The "Canadian cow" found in Washington - where did it get this non-communicable disease?

Feed laws were changed some seven years ago. Who decided to ignore the bans?

Many here are beginning to think conspiracy - right or wrong that is the line of thought.

The above comments are not to generate anger - just comments that are now being looked at by the folks that wonder.

What is truly important is the fact that we have an identification process that can actually trace an animal back to its' origin - we prevented all of the American owned animal from Alberta from entering the commercial food chain. You do not have that capability, failed to do so with the Washington animal and in fact you SHOULD be copying our process if you are truly concerned about food safety

Quote - Canadian cattlemen aren't one bit happy with the U.S., as we
haven't opened the border to live animals. - end quote

While there is some truth to this, it has also opened a great many eyes in this country. There are many who will never forget the free trade agreement and how we (fools that we were) believed it was in the best interests of both countries to ship our live cattle south and allow processing to become foreign owned. I no longer await the border to open. Many of us no longer want to be held at risk again - we will find methods to go forward and succeed without the partner we once thought we had. We will be stronger for this. Blood brothers no more.

We may never have what we once had, but we who survive will also never allow this type of thing to happen again. We now know that free trade agreements are not worth the paper they are written on. Our processing capacity will be increased and we will compete once again in the international market place.

I am no longer angry - I am looking at different markets - as are others - perhaps Mr Kruse is wrong? Perhaps he is exaggerating? It makes for good press.

Let's talk protectionisitic for a moment. If anyone denies that - then they are are wearing blinders. But, that has also been a lesson in economics to us. You see, we developed our foreign markets in agreement with the U.S.of A. and the U.S. of A. was our largest - and by the way still is our largest trading partner - total Canadian exports into U.S. of A. We are also your largest trading partner - total U.S. of A. exports into Canada.

Unfortunately beef on the hoof is not part of that any more. In the end I actually have no problem with buying from the "home nation producers" first. That is why I would never consider buying U.S. grown food in this country if there is a Canadian alternative. In fact I find it easier every day to do without if there is no alternative.

If you want to talk about suing - let's look at all of the unsuccessful attempts by the U.S. to sue and add tariffs to products imported into their own county from Canada: Wheat, pork, soft wood lumber, and and so on. You folks never seem to stop. Funny, there has never been a complaint about our oil and natural gas. And, no suit that I know of has been successful to date. NAFTA is a joke and we all know it. Once again not worth the paper it is written on.

For whatever reason - the border was very close to opening - then R-CALF sued - and shut it down for certain. The reasons are not important - what is important is that a State government caused the Federal government to be over ridden. Such is life.

In the end, we are simply playing the game the U.S. of A. excels at. We may be slow learners, but we have learned.

Quote - we don't want to let them dump live
>animals on an already depressed cash market before we've revived U.S. beef exports? - end quote.

Depressed market? Wow, I wonder what a happy market is like? :) Be that as it may I am hearing nothing but reports of excellent prices. Is this man telling the truth? I think not.

We destroyed Asian markets? Well, if there is no export market, and there is a surplus of cattle in the U.S. - why is there such good pricing? In fact there is no export market for your cattle for other reasons as well.

The most important reason is that there are not enough cattle in the U.S. to support the domestic market and continue the foreign markets at previous volume and pace - even if the markets were available to you.

You people are huge - your population EATS all of your beef - you imported our cattle to process, eat and export - and you also exported your own beef. You are importing boxed Canuck beef - and yet you are still maintaining good pricing. It is my opinion only that you actually need this beef because you are not yet able to produce enough for your own population. It will come in time, but never forget we also import your beef today. What the actual numbers are - who cares. We are both obligated to do this under trade agreements.

Mr. Kruse comments about Tyson / Cargill and such are accurate. But they are U.S. companies. They HQ under the Stars and Stripes. Never forget that. We do not like it either, but he makes it look like they are Canadian companies. We producers are being raped and not even getting a kiss.

Discrimination against R-CALF cattle is true. I admit I support this discrimination.

R-CALF members have publicly stated Canadian cattle are diseased and pose a health risk. This has been and may still be their mantra. I strongly disagree with it. Yet R-CALF personnel are willing to buy Canadian cattle and profit at the expense of their fellow U.S. of A. countrymen. R-CALF members know full well this beef will be boxed and sent to their own country. So, they would put their own countrymen at risk for the sake of profit? (figure of speech)

Hmmm .... if the cattle are a disease risk and yet they (R-CALF members) are willing to buy this beef and have this beef shipped to the U.S. - who is the responsible and truthful organization? I wonder why your own producers have not railed against this deceitful action by R-CALF? I let you be the judge of that.

David Kruse is president of CommStock Investments,Inc - he may be a very honourable man - but his writings smack of a reporter who only wants one side of the story to be told.

There are two sides to every story - he is telling only one.

It is late and I have rambled on - I wonder if this thread will remain.

Regards

Bez


Bez- As far as your number 1 and 2 about where these cattle became diseased--You need to look at your CFIA website- They acknowledge that their investigation shows it is likely both were infected from feed that came from the same Alberta feedmill.-- And we did have an export market with many countries until the Canadian cow was found in Washington.

I agree that Canadians should be angry-- but not at US ranchers or producers- Its multinational big business and the multinational big packers that are raping your industry-- Its your government thats sitting on their hands and letting it happen....American cattlemen are just protecting their industry- A Canadian cow already lost us most of our export market- We don't need to bring more in that could further jeopardize our BSE free status. Like Mr. Kruse points out, it should be the US cattleman that should be upset over the Canadian cow that was let into Washington- and I'll agree many are. Many feel that the US has gone way beyond the call of duty by even importing in Canadian boxed beef- since we are the only country allowing in Canadian beef-- And the import of it could be jeopardizing the reopening of our export markets.

I didn't post this to upset anyone or to start a fight--- I just thought it well explained the thinking of many in the US cattle industry- anyway those that count on livestock for their living.
 
OP
O

Oldtimer

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Another question for the Canadians-- Is anyone getting any harvesting done in the north country?- I've heard that their are lots of crops that will end up just being feed---I know down here just south of the border there are lots of wheat fields that may end up being hayed-- We have about 400 acres of wheat left to cut- will try it again tommorrow, but then its supposed to start raining on Sunday and off and on all week. All this grain becoming feed may have an impact on cattle prices....

We need a long Indian Summer to get some harvest and haying done!!!
 

CattleAnnie

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Well OT, the cereal grain crop in the BC Peace area is in pretty tough shape. There are oats that were swathed in mid August still laying in the field. Too much percipitation both in rain and snow to get it dry enough to bale and the last snow laid a lot of crops down. There was a shot on the news of some grain farmer north of me showing how his crops in the swath are actually sprouting! He says that he's been in the business for 40 years and never seen anything like it. The green feed I've seen in the fields has gone all black and rotten, and there were alot of unfortunate ranchers who's hay is laying in swaths just the same condition.

Fields are too wet for the boys to go combining here, and east of us it was so cool this summer that crops didn't mature properly. I think we may see a tough fall for the grain boys this fall as well as the ranchers.

Hope you've got better luck down there.

Take care.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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The Hutterites in this area are harvesting at 22-25% moisture and drying the heck out of it. My dad says his beans have been sitting for three weeks doing nothing. They're not hardening and not growing, just sitting. He has heavy land and he'll be lucky if he can get the crop off before the ground freezes. I was kind of hoping to get some barley straw from him. Hoping for lots of cold weather before we get snow.
 

frenchie

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cattleAnnie..........The green feed I've seen in the fields has gone all black and rotten, and there were alot of unfortunate ranchers who's hay is laying in swaths just the same condition.

Fields are too wet for the boys to go combining here, and east of us it was so cool this summer that crops didn't mature properly. I think we may see a tough fall for the grain boys this fall as well as the ranchers.


Its the same here we need an Indian summer or we are screwed.For the previous 5 yrs ,we could,nt buy a rain.Now it rains everyday.........
 

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