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Canada's R-CALF

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Oldtimer

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The Canadians are in the process of forming a new cattle producers group- It is called BIG C- They have had a few meetings and have several more scheduled. My hats are off to them. About time.

From what I've been told and have read they are forming this organization because they don't feel that their governments, their local and national cattle organizations (CCA, ABP, etc.) are responsive enough to their requests- They have lost faith in them. Sounds like they feel they are too tied to the US Packers, who there is also strong feelings against- There are major disagreements on how to get the best buck for the producer and to open up fair trade- The feeling I've picked up is that they feel the US packers are taking advantage of them and not giving a fair price for their product.

The ironic thing is- go back a few years and these were the same reasons R-CALF was formed. I think it is great and long overdue- don't sit back- question the staus quo that NCBA and CCA have put forth for years- raise some sh*t- get a Canadian packer ownership law on the books. The Packer multinational corporations have used NAFTA to slip around all US laws- get some clamps on them and maybe there really could be a good and fair North American trade develop
 

la4angus

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Oldtimer":klr6c0j9 said:
The Canadians are in the process of forming a new cattle producers group- It is called BIG C- They have had a few meetings and have several more scheduled. My hats are off to them. About time.

From what I've been told and have read they are forming this organization because they don't feel that their governments, their local and national cattle organizations (CCA, ABP, etc.) are responsive enough to their requests- They have lost faith in them. Sounds like they feel they are too tied to the US Packers, who there is also strong feelings against- There are major disagreements on how to get the best buck for the producer and to open up fair trade- The feeling I've picked up is that they feel the US packers are taking advantage of them and not giving a fair price for their product.

The ironic thing is- go back a few years and these were the same reasons R-CALF was formed. I think it is great and long overdue- don't sit back- question the staus quo that NCBA and CCA have put forth for years- raise some sh*t- get a Canadian packer ownership law on the books. The Packer multinational corporations have used NAFTA to slip around all US laws- get some clamps on them and maybe there really could be a good and fair North American trade develop
Oldtimer
As usual, I agree with you about 100%.
 

Bez

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Interesting comments - as a Canadian cattle producer - once in Saskatchewan and now in Ontario - I have not yet heard of this.

Sent a few animals - all Horned Herefords - to market - here are the prices:

Cull cows - all under 7 years of age - culled for attitude, mothering, open and so on. All in good shape - no ribs showing, good feet - no real dog like animals - just a normal thinning of the herd - any one of them could have gone into my freezer but it is full to over flowing.

Managed twenty one cents per pound on cows averaging 1600 pounds.

Before May 20 last year we were averaging 80 cents per pound or better.

Steers - all ready to go - double vaccinated, Ivomec'd, de-horned, castrated (steers!! :) ), birth weights, birth dates, weaning weights, medical history, etc provided for each animal along with veterinary letter as proof. Animals averaged 725 pounds - 63 cents per pound.

Before May 20 last year we were averaging 1.48 per pound.

Heifers - as above - except not castrated! :D Animals averaged 650 pounds. Managed almost 52 cents a pound.

Before May 20 last year we were averaging 1.28 per pound

Neighbours have had cows go to market and actually received a bill for trucking because cows did not manage to cover the trucking cost. One was even given away. Local cattle buyer paid 50 cents a pound for 14 finished Hereford steers - DELIVERED into his yard - this just last week.

I gave a real nice orphan calf to my neighbours' kids two weeks ago - did not have the heart to shoot it - and did not want to buy milk replacer - all other cows "occupied".

I am 80K deeper in debt this year than last year. I still have a small herd of cattle in the west - what's left from our last cattle operation. I will sell the entire calf crop as well as all breds, opens and culls this fall at whatever the price because I do not want to pay to feed them. We hope to average 450 dollars per animal on average.

But only time will tell, as the Canadian herd numbers are at an all time high and there will probably be a darned big run / sell off this fall.

Good steaks sell in the stores for around 10 dollars per pound or 23 bucks per kilo if you prefer metric. I actually saw a prime rib roast on sale for 18 bucks a pound - I left the meat counter in disgust. :mad:

Packers hold huge numbers of cattle in yards across the country. Someone is making the money - and it sure is not the average producer.

I belong to CCA, OCA, OFA and my wife sits as a director on the county cattlemans' association. I have not seen one organization that has done anything more than spend my membership cash on high class travel and fancy media events. :roll:

As for politicians - there may be some good ones, but they are few and far between - most tend to be far to liberal for most of us country types. They certainly have not represented the ideals and values of the rural folk in this country. But we do share one thing in commonn - we both like good wine - unfortunately I do not have an expense account to cover the cost of a bottle.

We are in good company here as we are in serious survival mode. My wife now runs a major local poultry operation and works there an average of 50 - 60 hours a week. I start a job selling insurance and investments in two weeks - thank heavens my two teenaged daughters - 14 and 17 - are with us through thick and thin - they have taken over the daily operations here.

In my local area, Lanark County has formed a landowners association and is running government inspectors, environmentalists and other government riff raff officials off of farm land. Things are getting rather warm here if you understand my drift. So in the end I will have to contact my western friends and find out more.

Rant mode is now off - my final comment - too much inter country trouble twixt us and the U.S. of A. and what used to be a fully integrated industry. There are still many, many cattle in this country owned by folks from south of the border - including industry and individuals - in fact they are still being purchased. Politics not science has led us down this path, and in the end when the mouse (me) sleeps with the elephant (you folks) - it tends to gets very nervous when the elephant rolls over.

Thanks for the heads up - I plan to look into this.

Best to all,

Bez
 

CattleAnnie

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If nothing else, at least we live in interesting times.

Thanks for the posts, OT, LA & Bez.

Bez, if you want more information on this "BIG-C" group, send me a PM.
I've got a phone number you can use to get a hold of a man that's involved, and a website that has some more information on the group.

Take care.
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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Good post Bez:
I moved onto a new farm in 2001 and bought into cattle. Most of my cattle could be culled for one thing or another, especially fertility which is a pretty expensive problem. My brother and my dad switched a big part of their farm which was doing quite well in grain and bought pastureland and cattle about six years ago. They still haven't got a good consistent stable herd either. That was my fathers' retirement plan and my brother's future and I think that if something doesn't happen they will both be bankrupt by the end of the year. I worry for my fathers' health as he has a bad heart. I'm lucky that I have a full time job, but I've been finding it difficult this year to be enthusiastic about anything, even calving, which has up to this time been better for me than Christmas. At least we have rain this year. Last year it was awful dry and I hear cattle Annie's country is dry again this year with alot of fires going already. As far as this Canadian R-CALF goes, I say good luck. Most ranchers up here don't have a pot to pee in, let alone money to spend on legal proceedings. Somebody commented to me the other day that with the money the government spent on compensation, alot of which went to the packers, they could have built enough slaughtering facilities to handle all the beef in Canada. I guess they didn't expect the border closure to go on so long.
Anyway, Bob Speller says the border will be open by September first and I always believe everything the Liberals say (NOT!). But here's hoping.
 

D.R. Cattle

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Thanks Old Timer for starting a discussion worth reading. 99% of the topics anymore are jokes and politics, where somebody copied a five page letter and posted it to the site.
 

Craig-TX

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D.R. Cattle":2k7ft6jt said:
Thanks Old Timer for starting a discussion worth reading. 99% of the topics anymore are jokes and politics, where somebody copied a five page letter and posted it to the site.

That's what is discussed in a real coffee shop, why not here?... jokes, politics, cattle, weather. But I do get your point and also agree with the sentiments in this thread.

Craig-TX
 

Bez

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Cattle Rack Rancher

I have some very very good friends raising Angus in Bertel (sp?) - I flew F-18's with him back when we were young and foolish. Now I am just a grey haired fat guy! :D Chisholm Cattle Company - a good outfit and fine folks. The kind you would want at your back when the chips are down. You ever need some good stock I would recommend them - if only for their honesty.

I can sympathize with you and your family. Hold your old man and tell him how you feel - the old guys tend to drop off a bit too soon for my liking - and they take so much "smarts" with them and it's always tough on the family.

But bottom line is there is no processing capability in Canada. That means we exist at the pleasure of those from off shore - close the plants and you and I are toast. The two largest operators run big yards and are foreign owned. You have no place to take your animals - unless you truck to Moose Jaw. Excel meats?

There is no supprt from the feds and any new plants in the development stages have run into serious problems due to various government interference. Speller? Just another Liberal government member - need I say more?

I wish I had a pot to pee in! :( I think I might have a window top throw it out of - but I have to peel back the plastic first! :D

Calving for me is - like you - better than Christmas. Even when the "fit hits the shan" - like today - I have a smile on my face as I watch the new little ones compete in calf races around the field. We have gone away from calving on snow and now calve in June - more flies, but fewer frozen ears. And I no longer have to wear ten layers of clothes when I check cows.

As it stands right now, I am thinking I should have shot the animal that we did a ceasarian on today. But that little brockle faced calf got up and sucked like nobody's business - so in the end I will find a way to pay the vet and keep on keepin' on. I must be getting soft.

My first C-section in many years, and my first breech in nearly 30 years.

We also have managed to keep the entire herd on a "calve in daylight" system. Believe it or not in the last three years only one calf has been born between sunset and sunrise. Now they come between 0700 and 1830 hours. wre prepared to assist as required in their first calving - but if they need help for number two calving - they go down the road - hence very few troubles here.

I am of the opinion there will be no border opening for a minimum of three years - perhaps more. If I am wrong I will be happy - if I am corect I will not be surprized.

Those of us who manage to hang in may recover - but it will take many years.

You hang in there - and keep the family at the top of the priority list - it pays big dividends.

Hey CattleAnnie - check your mail box - PM sent.

Best to all,

Bez
 

Cattle Rack Rancher

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Bez:

I think you are talking about Birtle and I have heard that Chisholms have good cattle. I am slowly working toward getting my cattle black, but I'm trying to maintain a recessive red gene in case the market changes its mind about what is popular ;-) .
Three years might be a bit of a stretch to hold on for most people. I think the government should build some slaughter plants and get them running as a Crown Corporation and then flip it back to the private sector through a share offering similar to what they did with Manitoba Telecom and Petro Canada. I'm not in favor of government corporations but they seem to be to be the only one that has any money right now. One per province at about $14 million apiece would only be $140 million. Still less than what they've paid out so far and nothing that would benefit the packers. They also should be putting a time limit on the US border opening. For example, if the US doesn't open by September 30/04, we move to mandatory testing. This gives the US government a few months to get their ducks in a row, without really threatening them. We can't afford to go into the fall run with the US border closed. Best to you and yours.
 

Texan

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Below is an item of interest on the subject. Obviously, the protectionism allegations will come as no big surprise to you guys North of the border who are hurting every day because of this issue. Hang in there!

TSCRA News Update VOL. 26 • NO. 10 • June 14, 2004

Wall Street Journal takes R-CALF to task

In an editorial titled “Beef Boomerang” WSJ said that protectionism, not sound science, is at the root of continuing bans on Canadian beef. The editorial, published on June 1, criticizes R-CALF and others who are attempting to block Canadian imports to the United States. It says R-CALF thwarted USDA’s “attempt to restore some economic and scientific sanity to U.S. beef policy.” The WSJ noted that while international trading partners, including the United States, understand the science behind BSE prevention, “there is still no known cure for...irrational outbreaks of protectionism.” —Wall Street Journal
 

Bez

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Texan - greetings from north of the 49'th.

We could have a long and involved discussion on the border closure - but in the end neither you or I have any say. It comes down to the politicians, lobbyists and special interest groups. Be that as it may, this industry cannot survive without north / south co-operation. Many will disagree with that statement, but I believe it to be true.

You are fortunate, as the U.S. of A. is capable of consuming most of the beef produced - we on the other hand can not. Our total population is less than that of California. In the end - unless we all get our stuff together we (U.S. of A. and Canada) will lose most of our international markets to countries like Uraguay, Argentina and Australia. Interestingly enough, I know producers in all of these countries and they are very good at what they do.

Cattle Rack Rancher - Yup - Birtle it is. If you are ever in that part of the world they always have time for someone who stops in for a visit - salt of the earth folk.

You can stay with the Angus - keep that red gene alive - some do not like it, but we do - we use black Angus bulls on a regular basis as a cross and cover bull - I used one from Birtle for three years - sold him for more than I paid - the last BA came from a town called Perth - had red factor - now I have one red baldie steer - but our main herd tends to be Horned Hereford - we leave the ivory on the girls that stay home. I do not shave the horns down - I use weights. We even have a few that have been left to run natural = the spans are quite impressive. We take a hit at market for non-black animals, but someone has to tend to the other breeds! :D

Been a busy day - smashed up my discbine - at least a two day fix - but did manage to bale a couple hundred rounds - beat the rain by less than five minutes - now to get the darned hay rack ready to go and start hauling!

Hope all you folks have a good summer - best to all. Finally to Texan - I take your comments personally - so thanks - we are still making it - no one will kill this operation if my family and I have any say.

Bez
 
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SAY old timer would you be so kind as to post this big c message on ranchers net? I think alot of folks would get some good out of it GOOD LUCK
 
OP
O

Oldtimer

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HAY maker":1dskmkpn said:
SAY old timer would you be so kind as to post this big c message on ranchers net? I think alot of folks would get some good out of it GOOD LUCK

Haymaker- I did a few days ago- Its probably over on the second or third page by now.
 

Craig-TX

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Oldtimer":2v3o3mvq said:
HAY maker":2v3o3mvq said:
SAY old timer would you be so kind as to post this big c message on ranchers net? I think alot of folks would get some good out of it GOOD LUCK

Haymaker- I did a few days ago- Its probably over on the second or third page by now.

Well, that site's been mentioned two or three times this week so I broke down and took a look. It’s been a good while. Didn't take long to see that ~SH~ is still there. Blackpower must use more than one handle? Anyway, still not much to miss. I do remember one guy who was enjoyable reading, he went by Soapweed.

Craig-TX
 

frenchie

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:) oldtimer Its good to be here, thanks for the welcome


I got a little tired of ranchers net..Are you getting rain. Hope you are

Bye for now
 

frenchie

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Cattle Rack Rancher":1yby7zgp said:
Bez:

I think the government should build some slaughter plants and get them running as a Crown Corporation and then flip it back to the private sector through a share offering similar to what they did with Manitoba Telecom and Petro Canada. I'm not in favor of government corporations but they seem to be to be the only one that has any money right now. One per province at about $14 million apiece would only be $140 million. Still less than what they've paid out so far and nothing that would benefit the packers. They also should be putting a time limit on the US border opening. For example, if the US doesn't open by September 30/04, we move to mandatory testing. This gives the US government a few months to get their ducks in a row, without really threatening them. We can't afford to go into the fall run with the US border closed. Best to you and yours.

I agree with you 100 % somethings got to happen and soon

frenchie
 
OP
O

Oldtimer

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frenchie":13h8tudn said:
:) oldtimer Its good to be here, thanks for the welcome


I got a little tired of ranchers net..Are you getting rain. Hope you are

Bye for now

frenchie- We've had one of the wettest years in a long long time- Grass and hay look good- would even look better if the temp would have been a little warmer- we keep getting down around freezing every night- but thats about to change with forecasts of 80's and 90's. Glad we didn't start cutting hay yesterday as it is sprinkling again today- guess I'll go work some colts instead.
 
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frenchie- We've had one of the wettest years in a long long time- Grass and hay look good- would even look better if the temp would have been a little warmer- we keep getting down around freezing every night- but thats about to change with forecasts of 80's and 90's. Glad we didn't start cutting hay yesterday as it is sprinkling again today- guess I'll go work some colts instead.

Oldtimer ..Good, now if the weather would cooperate you would be laughing.I don,t know about you but I would sooner be wet than dry.
 
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