Canada Group to Sue US Over M-COOL

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Oldtimer

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Canadians just can't grasp the idea of getting off the US teat and actually standing on their own 2 feet-- marketing their own product....It appears they are afraid that if they can't ride on the US Cattlemans shirttails, passing off their beef/cattle as a US product they can't make it....
What a joke
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:48 pm

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The Canadian Cattlemen's Association (CCA) and the Canadian Pork Council (CPC) have announced that they are joined in a coalition that seeks U.S. country of origin labeling, or COOL, provisions that are in agreement with international trade agreements.

The coalition calls itself the Canadian Livestock Producers Against COOL (CLiP COOL), and insists that the mandatory COOL provision of the latest U.S. Farm Bill violates U.S. trade obligations as set forth in the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the World Trade Organization (WTO). Mandatory COOL, as it is currently written, has to be repealed or significantly revised to conform with NAFTA and the WTO.
Additionally, CLiP COOL says that the so-called "fix" that the U.S. Congress is presently considering still falls woefully short of complying with U.S. obligations.

In the United States, CSPI (the Center for Science in the Public Interest) has been calling for more regulations with regard to U.S. COOL labeling for some time. They claim that the relative absence of labeling on U.S. exports of beef and pork are disguises for producers, packers, and others in the agricultural industry who are not taking proper safety precautions and endangering the health of buyers.

Other commentators say they find U.S. food industry workers trying to place blame for anything that goes wrong with food shipping on "personal responsibility" instead of seeing themselves as responsible for taking all precautions to ensure food health safety.

The new labeling would include U.S. producers distinguishing between livestock born and raised in the U.S. and that which was raised and slaughtered in the U.S. but which had been born elsewhere, such as in Canada, and then shipped to the U.S. at a very young age to continue being raised for eventual slaughter.

However, U.S. critics of the newly proposed COOL standards, including the president of the American Meat Association, say that food from American farms is already quite safe by all national and international standards based on reports made by the Center for Disease Control. Implementing new labeling would cost producers, shippers, and others in the industry amounts of money totaling in the millions of dollars while not being necessary, they say.

CLiP COOL is calling for a trade barrier to be erected unless the United States complies.
"We have never been concerned that Canadian beef and Canadian pork could not compete. In fact we will market our meat products aggressively to ensure they can do well under this law. The problem is that access for live animals to U.S. slaughter facilities will be impaired if those facilities do not want to incur the burden of tracking which product satisfies which origin label. So even though Canadian meat might do well with U.S. consumers, Canadian livestock producers will face lower prices for their animals," says Hugh Lynch-Staunton, president of the CCA.


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R-CALF United Stockgrowers of America


"Fighting for the U.S. Cattle Producer"




For Immediate Release Contact: Shae Dodson, Communications Coordinator
August 9, 2007 Phone: 406-672-8969; e-mail: [email protected]





Canadian Trade Complaints About U.S. COOL Unfounded



Billings, Mont. – The Canadian Livestock Producers Against COOL (CLiP COOL), a coalition that includes the Canadian Cattlemen's Association and the Canadian Pork Council, claims that U.S. country-of-origin labeling (COOL) requirements are in violation of both the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the World Trade Organization (WTO). Those claims are baseless.



"This coalition has absolutely no business dictating what information U.S. consumers should be given regarding the origins of their food, and it is presumptuous for these Canadian organizations to think they have that sort of authority within U.S. borders," said R-CALF USA COOL Committee Chair Mike Schultz.



"If these Canadian organizations had thought this through, they would have realized that the U.S. COOL law deals with beef sold to consumers at retail stores here in the United States, not exported product," he continued. "The WTO and NAFTA address trade between countries and require that we treat imported product no less favorably than domestic product. The U.S. COOL law does just that – it requires both imported and U.S. beef and pork to be labeled with their respective countries of origin, so R-CALF believes the Canadian coalition's challenge is meritless.


"A few years ago, after the U.S. closed its border to Canadian cattle because of Canada's problems with BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy), some Canadian groups threatened to take that matter to NAFTA and the WTO, but the border was closed for legitimate health and safety reasons, and the U.S. had every right to protect its consumers and the U.S. cattle industry," Schultz added.



"Now that we know Canada's BSE problems are worse than expected, more than ever U.S. beef consumers deserve to know where their meat comes from," he concluded. "Congress realized consumers want this type of information, and it passed a law in 2002 to enact COOL. Congress isn't likely to be intimidated because this Canadian coalition threatens to challenge our domestic laws."
 
OT all this group is saying that the US signed and agreeded to NAFTA and trade agreements under the rules of the WTO. And that COOL must fit in within the exsisting agreements which as it stands now does not. Make it fit and there won't be any opposition. Simple fix it and no complications or is the US goverment going to be stubborn. If this is a safety isssue, why are US companies getting a simple fine for putting suspect BSE positive cows in the US human foodchain. Or meat convered in fecal matter? :roll: As far as r-calf thinking COOL doesn't violate NAFTA trade regulations a 3rd party should decide if it doesn't make the grade. Like the WTO.
 
I can't believe you-- you continue to run down the United States- and the operations of the United States-- but then whine and cry to be part of that system because your afraid to stand on your own :roll: What a joke...You've sucked the US hind teat for so long- you don't know anything different...

Mandatory COOL has been allowed and is being used by most nations of the world already- as long as it truthfully labels the product--which the M-COOL will do...

It is sad that you and other Canadians oppose telling the US consumer the truth!!!
 
Oldtimer":5wwgmc36 said:
I can't believe you-- you continue to run down the United States- and the operations of the United States-- but then whine and cry to be part of that system because your afraid to stand on your own :roll: What a joke...You've sucked the US hind teat for so long- you don't know anything different...

Mandatory COOL has been allowed and is being used by most nations of the world already- as long as it truthfully labels the product--which the M-COOL will do...

It is sad that you and other Canadians oppose telling the US consumer the truth!!!


Oldtimer how did you ''read'' all this into the post you are replying to? :roll:
 
In my opinion the only reason why they havent already took legal action is due to the USDA attempting to open the boarders. I dont understand the picture here from what I know is that USA and Canada are on or about the same risk level due to different reasons and Countries are being more hesitant thinking if American cant comply with International guide lines and American / Canada are in the same boat so to speak why should they allow imports of American beef also we shouldent have commited on the line if we dident want to comply with what we stated. I think we will get more of a Internatinal Market once we are on the same page here.
 
vs_cattle":qrbskd0c said:
In my opinion the only reason why they havent already took legal action is due to the USDA attempting to open the boarders. I dont understand the picture here from what I know is that USA and Canada are on or about the same risk level due to different reasons and Countries are being more hesitant thinking if American cant comply with International guide lines and American / Canada are in the same boat so to speak why should they allow imports of American beef also we shouldent have commited on the line if we dident want to comply with what we stated. I think we will get more of a Internatinal Market once we are on the same page here.

vscattle-- I don't know where you get the same risk level-- when the United States CDC (Center for Disease Control) says that Canadian cattle are 26 times higher a risk for BSE than US cattle- which means the Canadian beef pose 26 times the risk to the consumer since SRM removal is not a 100% effective.....

This higher amount of BSE cattle is also verified by the Canadians leading TSE/BSE research expert--Dr. Neil Cashman.....
 
I dont know I got the risk level since we both are banned from major import countries, are in the same continent, have no boarder fencing the fact that your saying we are at a less of a chance to get bse in US cattle to go along with all the work the USDA is doin (scientific) giving a green light so to speak but then different complication a rise (R-Calf, COOL ).

My personal preferses put me in the middle Im for the boarders opening but to be fare Im for COOL as well I dont think most american's care so much as for where the products come from but more for the products price Im sure some people as your self would only by American based beef which is all good I rather support my countrie's operations too but the situation has a bigger picture $$$ Canada and us trade more products then just beef as you know and we both fill the same way as other countires have banned US beef but still expect to have a free trade agreement were doing the same to Canada
 
Actually--If USDA/CFIA keeps testing so we are assured the disease is being eradicated--and USDA gets M-COOL instituted so the consumers could make their own informed choice- not only on the Canadian beef, but the Mexican and Uruguayan- and the Chinese Chicken Tyson is trying to import.. Then I would have no problem with opening the borders...
 
Well!---I've been on the tractor lately---dangerous place for me to be ---think too much---but for every full truck going across the border from canada----it comes back from the states full as well ---as far as free trade--I think cattle are pretty low on the big scale of trade --I really don't care if the country of origin is on the beef --who knows might be better quality---might be to our advantage--

carl
 
Oldtimer":1q4pkc4f said:
Actually--If USDA/CFIA keeps testing so we are assured the disease is being eradicated--and USDA gets M-COOL instituted so the consumers could make their own informed choice- not only on the Canadian beef, but the Mexican and Uruguayan- and the Chinese Chicken Tyson is trying to import.. Then I would have no problem with opening the borders...

What do you mean that the USDA will ''keep'' testing :roll: I am afraid that if we tested the same type of cattle that Canada does you could see some shocking no.s to post on your bse of the week threads :p
 
mwj":3u4bcb88 said:
Oldtimer":3u4bcb88 said:
Actually--If USDA/CFIA keeps testing so we are assured the disease is being eradicated--and USDA gets M-COOL instituted so the consumers could make their own informed choice- not only on the Canadian beef, but the Mexican and Uruguayan- and the Chinese Chicken Tyson is trying to import.. Then I would have no problem with opening the borders...

What do you mean that the USDA will ''keep'' testing :roll: I am afraid that if we tested the same type of cattle that Canada does you could see some shocking no.s to post on your bse of the week threads :p

I guess you better convince CDC and Dr. Cashman of that...CDC says the risk of Canadian cattle is 26 times higher than in US cattle-- Cashman says he believes there are as many as 50 infected cattle as of today in Canada- and with the POST feedban positive cattle it has been proven that it is still reinfecting and spreading...

I don't know what CCA and their new CLIP someone organization is thinking- or if they are just following their AMI/Packer handlers again...Because even if they should win- they are going to lose bigtime....Tyson/Cargill/AMI/NCBA etal promised (not worth enough to buy a cup of coffee) to not fight M-COOL in Congress, in order to make a deal to kill a Packer Ownership bill from the Farm Bill--so its my bet they are now using the Canadians as stooges...

Dobbs, Pilgrim, O'Reilly, the consumer groups, and this fastly growing protectionist movement would tear Canadian ranchers apart if they file a challenge to M-COOL- make Canadian ranchers look like a bunch of vultures- greed over consumers right to a truthful informed choice and safety...Dobbs sure made NCBA & AMI look like dolts...Luckily Dobbs used Bullard, R-CALF, and the Farmers Union to show that NCBA does not represent much of the real ranchers/cattlemen out there...
Dobbs has taken the implementation of M-COOL on as a personal mission and has said he will see it implemented.....He has made M-COOL, all this tainted/defective imported products, the dangers asociated with Global trade, China, etal a nightly segment of his show.....And 99% of his views agreed they wanted M-COOL......

It will bring Canadas BSE problem- and higher risk status to the front pages and evening news around the world again (especially since Canada is about due for another positive cow)...Might even bring on the Constitutional Challenge to NAFTA that many have been calling for if Canada got a favorable ruling...Dobbs (who holds an economics degree from Harvard) is one of those saying the FTA's are unconstitutional and calling for a challenge of them...

Nope- I don't think this is the time or place to be bringing up opposition to M-COOL...
 
So OT do you think our BSE no.s would not change if we tested the same class of cattle that Canada does? You imply that we are testing the proper amount and class of cattle. Do you really think the US is doing enough testing to be able to compare our herd to anyone elses?


PS Maybe you would like to give us some facts and figures to illustrate how good our feedban is working. Maybe Terry could get you some figures to use if you have trouble :)
 
mwj":2vsv7adp said:
So OT do you think our BSE no.s would not change if we tested the same class of cattle that Canada does? You imply that we are testing the proper amount and class of cattle. Do you really think the US is doing enough testing to be able to compare our herd to anyone elses?

USDA and OIE apparently think the testing was adequate...Hundreds of thousands were tested- and according to the independent study it should have showed the basic extent of the disease...And only 2 Pre feedban born cattle were found.... Unless you are one of the conspiracy theorists that think the Government could get thousands of Doctors, Veterinarians, technicians, and USDA employees to join in a mass coverup :roll: --We have nothing else to judge it by...The independent study USDA hired said that the testing indicated the US had virtually NO BSE left in the US (3-4 cows?)...Compare that too Canada's TSE expert that says in a herd 1/8th the size they have 50....

PS Maybe you would like to give us some facts and figures to illustrate how good our feedban is working. Maybe Terry could get you some figures to use if you have trouble :)

The only thing I have to judge by is the evidence presented-- and the fact that out of a herd 8 times bigger than Canada's we have had NO Post feedban positives- while Canada has 1/2 of their 12 positives be POST feedban( and some as young as 4 years old)....I think Terry's post and figures prove how seriously we took the feedban-- starting voluntarily as far back as the 1980's and then mandatorily in 97- and the fact that any chance for contamination is reported and investigated...It appears Canada did not do that--the reason they have had to start all over from square one with a new feedban this year.....Which is another government admission that their old one did NOT work...
 
Oldtimer":3vwrle9h said:
Actually--If USDA/CFIA keeps testing so we are assured the disease is being eradicated--and USDA gets M-COOL instituted so the consumers could make their own informed choice- not only on the Canadian beef, but the Mexican and Uruguayan- and the Chinese Chicken Tyson is trying to import.. Then I would have no problem with opening the borders...


I thought chicken and turkeys were exempt from MCOOL .
 
Oldtimer":1r6d17yf said:
mwj":1r6d17yf said:
So OT do you think our BSE no.s would not change if we tested the same class of cattle that Canada does? You imply that we are testing the proper amount and class of cattle. Do you really think the US is doing enough testing to be able to compare our herd to anyone elses?

USDA and OIE apparently think the testing was adequate...Hundreds of thousands were tested- and according to the independent study it should have showed the basic extent of the disease...And only 2 Pre feedban born cattle were found.... Unless you are one of the conspiracy theorists that think the Government could get thousands of Doctors, Veterinarians, technicians, and USDA employees to join in a mass coverup :roll: --We have nothing else to judge it by...The independent study USDA hired said that the testing indicated the US had virtually NO BSE left in the US (3-4 cows?)...Compare that too Canada's TSE expert that says in a herd 1/8th the size they have 50....

PS Maybe you would like to give us some facts and figures to illustrate how good our feedban is working. Maybe Terry could get you some figures to use if you have trouble :)

The only thing I have to judge by is the evidence presented-- and the fact that out of a herd 8 times bigger than Canada's we have had NO Post feedban positives- while Canada has 1/2 of their 12 positives be POST feedban( and some as young as 4 years old)....I think Terry's post and figures prove how seriously we took the feedban-- starting voluntarily as far back as the 1980's and then mandatorily in 97- and the fact that any chance for contamination is reported and investigated...It appears Canada did not do that--the reason they have had to start all over from square one with a new feedban this year.....Which is another government admission that their old one did NOT work...

How many high risk cattle has the usda tested post feedban????? If it is enough to satisfy you that we only have a handfull with bse you must be easy pleased! When they test enough they will find more it is as simple as that. What strikes me as odd is that you of all people would just take the usda's word for it as much as you seem to think they are payed stooges when it comes to other things.
 
mwj":1kar105w said:
Oldtimer":1kar105w said:
mwj":1kar105w said:
So OT do you think our BSE no.s would not change if we tested the same class of cattle that Canada does? You imply that we are testing the proper amount and class of cattle. Do you really think the US is doing enough testing to be able to compare our herd to anyone elses?

USDA and OIE apparently think the testing was adequate...Hundreds of thousands were tested- and according to the independent study it should have showed the basic extent of the disease...And only 2 Pre feedban born cattle were found.... Unless you are one of the conspiracy theorists that think the Government could get thousands of Doctors, Veterinarians, technicians, and USDA employees to join in a mass coverup :roll: --We have nothing else to judge it by...The independent study USDA hired said that the testing indicated the US had virtually NO BSE left in the US (3-4 cows?)...Compare that too Canada's TSE expert that says in a herd 1/8th the size they have 50....

PS Maybe you would like to give us some facts and figures to illustrate how good our feedban is working. Maybe Terry could get you some figures to use if you have trouble :)

The only thing I have to judge by is the evidence presented-- and the fact that out of a herd 8 times bigger than Canada's we have had NO Post feedban positives- while Canada has 1/2 of their 12 positives be POST feedban( and some as young as 4 years old)....I think Terry's post and figures prove how seriously we took the feedban-- starting voluntarily as far back as the 1980's and then mandatorily in 97- and the fact that any chance for contamination is reported and investigated...It appears Canada did not do that--the reason they have had to start all over from square one with a new feedban this year.....Which is another government admission that their old one did NOT work...

How many high risk cattle has the usda tested post feedban????? If it is enough to satisfy you that we only have a handfull with bse you must be easy pleased! When they test enough they will find more it is as simple as that. What strikes me as odd is that you of all people would just take the usda's word for it as much as you seem to think they are payed stooges when it comes to other things.


USDA tested 735,213 between 1999 and 2006...This is enough to find 1 in a million according to the statistical analysts --and somewhere I read lately that we are now up to or near 1 million tested....

While I think the USDA Administration and the Bush Administration are both inept, corrupt, and sold out to the multinational Corporations and elitists-- I find it impossible to believe the Canuck conspiracy theorists that think they could find that many crooked Doctors, Veterinarians, Technicians, and Employees- thruout the entire nation- in hundreds of labs and test facilities and thousands of test sites- that could cover up 735 thousand quick tests......If that is what you want to believe- have at it :roll: .......
 
Oldtimer":kq8gm222 said:
USDA tested 735,213 between 1999 and 2006...This is enough to find 1 in a million according to the statistical analysts --and somewhere I read lately that we are now up to or near 1 million tested....

: .......

Your testing program is almost as big a Joke as you are OT..

Must be something in the water in Glasgow
 
Well getting back to the original topic of the thread its hard to believe the outright arrogance of Canadian farmers/ranchers that think they should be able to tell US consumers how their meat products they buy in their own country should be labeled-- or what or how our US Congress can make laws in our country...

When 90+% of US consumers are asking for this labeling (partly because of the Canadian BSE issue)- so that they can have an honest truthful informed choice on the meat products they buy-- this CCA (AMI/Packer Puppets) move may create a backlash that creates much more harm and damage to the Canadian beef and cattle industry.....
 
Oldtimer":2wdldpd5 said:
mwj":2wdldpd5 said:
Oldtimer":2wdldpd5 said:
mwj":2wdldpd5 said:
So OT do you think our BSE no.s would not change if we tested the same class of cattle that Canada does? You imply that we are testing the proper amount and class of cattle. Do you really think the US is doing enough testing to be able to compare our herd to anyone elses?

USDA and OIE apparently think the testing was adequate...Hundreds of thousands were tested- and according to the independent study it should have showed the basic extent of the disease...And only 2 Pre feedban born cattle were found.... Unless you are one of the conspiracy theorists that think the Government could get thousands of Doctors, Veterinarians, technicians, and USDA employees to join in a mass coverup :roll: --We have nothing else to judge it by...The independent study USDA hired said that the testing indicated the US had virtually NO BSE left in the US (3-4 cows?)...Compare that too Canada's TSE expert that says in a herd 1/8th the size they have 50....

PS Maybe you would like to give us some facts and figures to illustrate how good our feedban is working. Maybe Terry could get you some figures to use if you have trouble :)

The only thing I have to judge by is the evidence presented-- and the fact that out of a herd 8 times bigger than Canada's we have had NO Post feedban positives- while Canada has 1/2 of their 12 positives be POST feedban( and some as young as 4 years old)....I think Terry's post and figures prove how seriously we took the feedban-- starting voluntarily as far back as the 1980's and then mandatorily in 97- and the fact that any chance for contamination is reported and investigated...It appears Canada did not do that--the reason they have had to start all over from square one with a new feedban this year.....Which is another government admission that their old one did NOT work...

How many high risk cattle has the usda tested post feedban????? If it is enough to satisfy you that we only have a handfull with bse you must be easy pleased! When they test enough they will find more it is as simple as that. What strikes me as odd is that you of all people would just take the usda's word for it as much as you seem to think they are payed stooges when it comes to other things.


USDA tested 735,213 between 1999 and 2006...This is enough to find 1 in a million according to the statistical analysts --and somewhere I read lately that we are now up to or near 1 million tested....

While I think the USDA Administration and the Bush Administration are both inept, corrupt, and sold out to the multinational Corporations and elitists-- I find it impossible to believe the Canuck conspiracy theorists that think they could find that many crooked Doctors, Veterinarians, Technicians, and Employees- thruout the entire nation- in hundreds of labs and test facilities and thousands of test sites- that could cover up 735 thousand quick tests......If that is what you want to believe- have at it :roll: .......

Do you have the no. of older high risk cattle were in those test figures? If you test the healthy ones you wont find much! I supose we can all say they were just bones when we found them dead but the bones looked ''good'' :roll:
 
Oldtimer":1xf1lxxo said:
Well getting back to the original topic of the thread .....

whats matter Ot truth hurts don,t it. Your wonderful testing program based on a flawed test.The sort of test that is only meaningful in Montana.

re MCOOL....Truth be known if the shoe was on the other foot .R-calf would be first in line to sue.
 

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