Calving woes...weak calf, prolapses, etc.

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raykour

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Ok, so lets start the story.
Friday afternoon I notice one of my first calf heifers, a nice big charolais, appears to be in early labor.
I move her out of the nasty pen she is in with the others expectants to a nice clean sand trap and wait. She had the calf around 12:30 AM Saturday. I had last checked her about 11:30 and she was not 2nd stage yet, so obviously it wasn't a long grueling deal. She was licking the little bugger off and he was still pretty wet. He failed to get up within an hour, or 2, or 3. He sat sternally and sort of tried to stand. Finally, around 3:30 AM I gave him a esophagael feeder of packaged dried colostrum and slept until about 6:20, fully expecting to find him on his feet. He was in the exact same spot, with his momma laying beside him, which is what she chose to do most of the night. No encouragement to get on his feet and get things going after his initial clean off. I got momma in the chute around 7 am and milked her out as best I good, got about 1 liter of colostrum and tube fed him again.
Around 2 pm, I went back to milk her again with my husband and this time momma had found a fiercly protective streak. She tried to kill us both and chased me up the fence. The calf at this point still has not stood and now momma is a raging witch. I don't want a bottle calf but can't think of how else to remedy this if momma isn't going to let me help the calf so up to the barn he goes. He got one more esophagael feed of packaged colostrum and my daughter ran up to tell us he had stood up around 6 pm last night. He weighs about 65 lbs. and is eating, peeing, pooping, and wobbling around when encouraged. He seems so weak and lackluster. I have never had a calf like this and don't know what to expect. I gather that he will either improve vastly in the next several days or I will star the losing battle. I just don't know what would have caused this issue with him. I'd would have liked to give him back to momma, but he is very wobbly and I have to help hold him up while he sucks down the bottle. I don't think his first time momma who is fiercly PROTECTIVE but not quite so motherly in that she isn't trying to get him up or direct him to the food will help him much. So I guess I am just looking for words of encouragement or advice for what I can do for this little tyke to keep him going. Temping him every 12 hours and so far so good no signs of fever.

Now as if I wasn't excited enough adjusting to the fact I was going to have one bottle calf, another heifer goes into labor yesterday around 1 pm. Bred by the same red angus bull as the above charolais heifer, and this a big bodied 26 month old angus heifer. She started pushing around 2 pm and I saw no progress beyond the first hour. We brought her in to pull the calf by hand around 4 pm. That was getting up no where. No dystocia, the calf was just too big. Finally had to use a calf pulled to get this big 100 lb. bull calf out of momma. Momma stands in the chute quietly for a few moments while we hang him up and get him down near her head. We open up the chute on the side return and as momma turns to come out with one fierce heave she prolapses her entire uterus with placenta still attached. She lays down with no interest in her calf, but charolais momma from above (who is still in the birthing area) is extremely interested in the calf. I took one look at the entire uterus on the ground and the consideration of the amount of discomfort and stress that was going to happen with getting it resituated and think to myself "self, you don't want two bottle calf and this big bugger is about as vigorous as one gets maybe that charolais momma wants him." I think that she knows it is not her calf and doesn't really go mothering heavy on him, but she protects him from one other heifer that is down in the pen and lets him suck a little here and there when he is lucky. In the meantime, we get the poor forlorn angus heifer's uterus pushed back inside after a solid 2 hours of work and get her all medicated up and milk out about a liter of colostrum for her calf which he vigorously devours from a bottle while his adoptive momma who doesn't really want him to nurse but REALLY wants to kill me threatens to murder me. Once again I think to myself, "self, you have lots of customers wanting grass fed beef and this 24 month old charolais heifer might taste real nice to them" and decide maybe she just shouldn't live here anymore if she is going to race me to the fence this often and I am going to lose eventually. So I take big vigorous calf up with his tiny, weak brother (same bull remember, and mommas on the same feed and care for the last 9 months!) and put poor prolapse lady to bed for the night. This morning, just on the chance, I took prolapse's calf down to her and introduced him, and she said to him "YOU DID THIS TO ME" and made it quite clear she didn't want anything to do with him. Maybe it would have been better to just leave him with that charolais momma because I think they would have worked it out and her calf is just to weak to take care of himself so no chance of their reuniting, but after she lined me out a few times I got to thinking the sooner you leave here the better.

In the end I have....
2 bottle calves that are eating, peeing, pooing.
1 momma going to meet the butcher in a few weeks
1 momma I don't know what to do with. She doesn't want to raise the calf (and who can blame her, the pain and misery she experienced were not what I'd wish on anyone!) What are her chances of reproductive success in the future? Should I just sell her as a cull after withdrawal from the meds we had to give her?
 
dun":klv4ubca said:
Your last question is the right answer

Heifers can be a big challenge, and we eat one or two each year.
We have had the best luck with mothering and vigor with SH or Herf crosses bred angus, and they are no guarantee.
 
I figured as much, but helps to you have you all with more life experience than myself give the input.

Steve...assuming your heifers are just 2 year olds or thereabouts, how do they butcher?
How long do you wait after the blessed event before doing so?
 
raykour":1uoli20o said:
Steve...assuming your heifers are just 2 year olds or thereabouts, how do they butcher?
How long do you wait after the blessed event before doing so?

If you run them through the sales barn with kill cows you take a big hit - - so we butcher off grass in July or August. English heifers that have been gaining all their life are good eating and can even jiggle at 27 months off grass.

Great beef with some flavor unless you have only eaten greasy calf feds full of corn and don't know anything else.
 
Great Steve thanks for the info. These heifers are about 24 months of age right now. I am giving them a little bit of sweet mix and good grass hay. I thought if I sold the heifer on a market day vs. a cull day I might get a little more.

We finish steers often usually butcher them around 18 months of age after they have been on grass for a few months but we also give them a few pounds of sweet mix a day for the last month before we process. Don't want them to go much longer with their age I would think? So we'll probably try to get them done in the next month or so then.
 
The upside is everyone is alive, eating, peeing and pooping. It doesn't always end THAT well. And, for what it's worth, I've never had a single momma "direct" a calf as to where to get it's meal.
 
raykour - where are you located? Most areas are Selenium deficient. Do you suppliment your herd with SE in your mineral?
Both your problems can be typical of poor mineral or low SE. Not the SIZE of the calves, but poor week calf, prolapse, and very ofter "dumb suckers".
As far as the one calf being so big compared to the other, the dam has more to do with the size of the newborn (genetics PLUS environment). Some cows really like to grow um inside.
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":jvdzwz2p said:
raykour - where are you located? Most areas are Selenium deficient. Do you suppliment your herd with SE in your mineral?
Both your problems can be typical of poor mineral or low SE. Not the SIZE of the calves, but poor week calf, prolapse, and very ofter "dumb suckers".
As far as the one calf being so big compared to the other, the dam has more to do with the size of the newborn (genetics PLUS environment). Some cows really like to grow um inside.

Location is northern Colorado. The tally this year has been pretty bad.
7 live full term calves. 2 required pulling (from 1st calvers), 1 of which is one of the bottle babies
1 mid-term abortion in December (cow was due to calve the end of April)
1 premature birth in February (calf was 5-6 weeks early, and lived for 6 hours. Would have lived for about an hour outside which probably would have been more merciful but I had to try ) Tentatively I am blaming this particular incident on pine needle consumption.

This if you don't count fall calvers, who had no issues so I am just talking about calving beginning 1/15/12. I have 8 left to go for spring calvers.

We are not in a selenium deficient area and my mineral contains 4 ppm of selenium. I have no idea if that is a good or bad amount but we live in Northern Colorado and the mineral is formulated specifically for our area by a local (reputable) feed mill.

The size of the calves has really varied, most of them have been very large save for one heifer calf was was kind of smaller and then this little char x bull who is just teeny.
 
Since you feed a good mineral program, I am going to "assume" you vaccinate your cattle with a good 9-way repro vaccine (Like BoviShield 5L5). Have you tested any of your cattle for BVD-PI?
Sorry to hear all your calving problems. Sure is discouraging!
 
Hi Jeanne
Your assumption SHOULD be accurate but unfortunately it is not.
None of the heifers or cows were vaccinated in 2011.

The thought of BVD crossed my mind, since we had brought him some steers to eat grass and a couple of heifers from outside sources in the last year and that the heifer that produced the small calf could possibly have been infected with BVD early in her gestation and now this little calf is a PI. However, the heifer that produced that small calf was in the same herd with all of of our cows and calves last year and they were all exposed to the same new outside cattle and I could only assume that if a BVD infection had entered the herd at some point last spring or summer our suckling and weanling calves would have been susceptible and affected to some degree. We did not vaccinate any of our calves last year to appease the all-natural market that is really hopping in this area and none became ill at any time.

We had some issues with the cows consuming copious amounts of pine needles in the winter months this year and attributed this to the 2 lost calves, especially since both heifers retained their placentas which is apparently a classic sign of "pine needle abortion." The timing was right, the first heifer aborted about a week after they had completely stripped some pine trees near the barn. The 2nd when there was alot of snow cover and some were eating the needles again. Apparently there is hard to keep them from eating them even when supplying supplementary forage.
 
Sorry to hear that.
Pine needle abortion MAY be the cause - OR - lepto -OR BVD. Cattle can get BVD and not really get "very sick". They do NOT get diarhea (as the name indicates) or at least extremely rare that they do. It is usually a repiratory problem. Cattle can get it & fight it off, and you never really realize they were sick. If they get it at the right gestation --- then you're in trouble with the calves. They either abort, birth too early, have weak calves that don't survive, or have relatively normal calf that does survive & infects your whole herd all year long (all being BVD-PI). It sure wouldn't hurt to check a few - especially the puny weak one.
"Natural" cattle can be vaccinated - they cannot get antibiotics or implants - to the best of my knowledge. Someone else might jump in here.
 
I was thinking the weak calf might benefit from a shot of BoSe (vet prescription) -- it did sound a little lethargic.

OR

Give it a bottle of KickStart for 2 feedings... and it should hop to it!
 
Just and update here....

My 2 mommas are starting to dry up and enjoying their corn and motherhood appears to be a distant memory to them.
Hopefully they butcher nice.

I sold the calf from the uterine prolapse on Wednesday. For $500. He was quite the strapping little bull calf but that is just nuts. I figure I'd spend $200 on milk replacer, starter, etc. for him so why not sell him for the $500 now instead of the $700 at weaning and let someone else eat the risk.

The "weak" calf is doing well. He runs and bucks and eats pretty good. He has a new momma, a lamancha nanny goat I bought up at the sale barn last week. I have heard that the goat milk is better for them, and I paid for her the same as 2 bags of milk replacer. She lets him suck if I hold her and I have been milking her and giving him a bottle as well. So far he has been healthy....no fever, respiratory of digestive issues and he is 9 days old. In another week when he is stronger (he is plenty strong now, but he is still much smaller than his siblings) I will put him out with his brothers and sisters some so he can learn to be a calf. I will probably hesitantly test him for the BVD....my daughter has named him and brushes him all the time and that just can't be a good thing!
 
Be aware that a calf nursing from a goat will ultimately damage the goats udder
 
Have heard such Dun.

Trying to minimize the sucking by milking her myself then giving him the bottle. I definitly do not think she is allowing him to suck when I am not there holding her...she is pretty full and tight in the mornings. I certainly don't want to ruin her udder she is quite a nice nanny goat.
 

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