Calves with bad scours*Good Update!!*

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Tabby

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Hi, I just joined the boards and I need help terribly. Our neighbor bought 11 holstein bull calves Monday at the sale barn. They have been in our barn and so far we have lost 7. Went to the vet and got Nuflor and Albon for bloody scours and still lost over half. Of the remaining 4, 3 are eating milk replacer good. We were giving them 2 pints because they wouldn't take 4 pints, but we just knocked it up to 4 pints at this morning's feeding and they drank it just fine. The 4th one refuses to suck a bottle, so I have been tube feeding him. Been able to get 2-3 pints in him. They all have runny, like water scours. I started giving them terramycin this morning to treat the scours and they are eating good. I am just afraid that they are losing their food as soon as they get it and I don't want them to take a turn for the worst. I raised calves when I was younger and NEVER had this much trouble nor lost so many. What can I give them that is very effective on treating the scours? If we buy calves at the salebarn again ( thats a BIG "if") what do I need to have in preventative medicine to keep this from happening again? I appreciate any advice, this is way past my knowledge.
Tabby

***The last calf is doing good. We gave the calf polyserum from the vet and have been doing smaller more frequent feedings and he is doing so much better. Thank you all for the great advice and help!
 
Keep 'em hydrated... I'm told that a calf has to lose ~6% of his body weight in fluids before dehydration becomes apparent, and at 10-12% dehydrated, they start to have kidney failure. A dehydrated animal needs around 3/4 to a gallon of fluids, although not all at once. I took a calf to the clinic the other day and my vet had me put 2000mLs IV in the morning and another 1000mLs a few hours later. I would have called him mildly dehydrated, but apparently there's a lot I have yet to learn! :p

Are the calves' scours bloody, or just watery?

I haven't tried Albon before for scours. My personal favorite at the moment is a combination of oxytet200 IM and SMZs (sulfas) orally.
 
take a calf or two to the vet. Fecal samples. there are more than just "scours"
Many 'brands' of scours and some are viral and have to run their course, treat so a secondary infection like pnemonia does not set in
some are bacterial, they might require somthing stronger than nuflor. i like trivetrin/trimidox/borgal (same just different brand) injections and calfspan oral boluses together. both are sulfa based
Alot of electrolyes and milk. Sometimes in bad cases we mix the milk and electrolytes together. Some brands can not be mixed.
Go to pfizer.com and search out scours and get the low down on the type, the symptoms of the type of scours. Some are white some are yellow some have blood,
one is caused by a parrasite from over eating milk after not having milk for an extendid period of time...kind of fatal.
there are several posts on scours here, do a search.
Dun has posted, alice, milkmaid, me, lots on here


Clean and disinfect the barn
No new arrivals until you get this cleaned up
buying calves is a crap shoot
Buying from a farmer who insures the calf gets the adequate amount of colostrum is better than a sale barn calf that has been put through the ringer and you have no idea if it was fed the colostrum in a timely manner
 
Thanks for replies. The scours are runny right now, like slimy yellow water. The vet gave us the Albon for the bloody scours I believe. I don't believe these calves were given colostrum or even fed consistently. I will be taking some samples to the vet to have them checked out. The calf I have been tube feeding has thicker yellow scours with white in it. I plan on feeding him 3x a day, at least 2 pints each feeding starting tomorrow ( i didn't learn that until it was too late to start today). I did find that info on this board about feeding smaller amounts more frequently so I am going to give that a try. I hate tubeing because I am afraid of getting it down the wrong way, but if I don't he will die. I am not impressed with the vet, told him what was happening and he gave stuff and didn't tell what it was for, I had to find that info on the internet. I am sorry if it seems I am rambling, I am just trying to give more info. Thanks!!
Tabby
 
Tabby, I'm sorry to hear you have had so much trouble, milkmaids post is right on the money, by the time we see symptoms we are already 6-8 % low on water. So if we have a 90 lb calf, 90x8%=7.2 lbs, roughly 1 gallon, that plus the rate of loss of fluids equals what we have to put back in. As you can see that is a lot of fluid to put in the stomach of a calf, thus going back to milkmaids post, she gave her calf 3 liters of what I am assuming was lactated ringers solution IV ( under the skin in the neck will work too), just trying to catch up. Your calves died from loss of fluids, and at this point re hydration is your only hope, I doubt that any antibiotic will be effective at this point. More than likely now you are in the rotavirus, coronavirus,cryptosporidia phase. Try not to beat yourself up about this, your results are typical of sale barn calves with raisers that are less experienced. The good thing is that you are quickly becoming more experienced. milkmaids vet is obviously very skilled in treating scouring calves, yours probably just does not do enough of this to be good at it.Take a good look at that milk replacer, it should be all milk no soy protein or anything like that. recommendations on milk bags are for a 100 pound Holstein calf if yours are smaller adjust accordingly. I hope some of this helps.

larry
 
When we raised holstein heifers, when they would get scours the best thing I found was feeding a product called Deliver. Feed Deliver for three or four feedings. It turns to almost like jelly so it had to be fed kind of fast, but it stays in their system that way.
 
I copied something off the internet, a couple yrs. ago, that said if they got the scours at 0 to 4 days, and they were watery, yellow, and had a really foul odor that it was caused by E- coli. I just had 1 like that and vet gave me oxytetracycline tablets (called them bumble bees, as they are black and yellow). 500 mg. Twice a day. Then a powder that was 2/3 Bio-sponge and 1/3 yeast,( mixed in syringe with a little warm water and squirted slowly in back of throat, also twice a day). 8hrs. later was firmed right up . Did it for 3 days and that was it.
 
Thanks for all the great info. The tube fed calf died this morning. The other 3 are doing good, I will give them some electrolytes and try to get them on the mend. If I read correctly, we need to use bleach and lime to disinfect the areas that the calves were in? How long before we can put more calves in there without making them sick? Thank you so much for all the great info. I wish I had found this board on Monday.

Tabby
 
There are other things you can use. clean out the barn well. there is a product called Virkon. Needs contact for 10 minutes though. If you are going to use lime and bleach remove the calves from the barn. good idea to start cleaning the barn in sections and moving the calves to a clean area. Keep rotating them until it gets under control.
When you finally get new ones:
I'm guessing that some of the calves could have gotten crypto. It occurs when they have been off milk for one reason or another, like spending 12+ hours at a sale, and then we as new owners give them to much at once. Cut down on the feeding amount but feed more often. For the first 24 hours anyway, then slowly start to increase as they can handle it. You do not want to starve them, just feed more often so their system can handle it again.
I would also give the the new calves electrolyes on arrival. They will be dehydrated from the sale and maybe acidiosus (sp) set in. This would rebalance them.
If the calves are one day old or less, consider getting an oral scour vaccine for the calves. They are indivudal doses, ususally given before the first suck but with in 24 hours when the intestines can first absorb antibodies.
A shot of a sulfa based drug on arrival, if needed to be given daily,( some drugs are 2-3 days between shots) give for 3-4 days.
Keep new calves and old calves separate for a few weeks. No sense in stressing the older ones again, they are just recovering
a boot wash between the separated animals would be good so you do not spred the bacteria or viruses between pens.
When you are feeding go to the healthiest pen first, then the sicker ones or new arrivals. Limiting the cross contaimation.
Wash coverals or clothes after being in the sick pen...again cross contamination.
clean needles, bolus guns between treating animals...again cross contamination, help to stop the spread.
We carry a 4 litre milk jug with a bleach solution. When we are multiple treating animals the bolus gun and drench tube get put in the jug and then rinsed in a jug of clean water. Cross contamination again.
Clean hands between treating animals. this helps you from getting sick...and you can, and prevents cross contamination to between the little ones.
think like a vet.
When a vet moves between farms she has bleached her/his boots. changed coverals, washed hands
between sick animals, cleaned boots, changed gloves, washed hands. Started with the healthy and observed, moved to the sicker ones to check and treat.
Animals when coming from a sale barn co mingle with many others. Baby calves if not given the proper colostrum, realatively stress free birth are like a sponge for viruses and bacteria. A sale barn is ripe with disease. These babies are stressed from the beginning and so they are seseptble to anything. Add to that that when they are born the have ZERO ZILCH immunity.
In a sale barn you have diseases such as IBR,BVD, pnemonia, scours of many varieties, and things i can't even write or pronounce. So take care and quarrentine the new ones until you are sure of their health.

Good luck
RR

EDIT have on hand a bottle of Anafin. Or non steriodal antiinfamatory. Give it to the tube feds. Reduces the swelling from tube feeding.
To minimize the chance of tube feeding in the lungs, have your hand on the throat and you can feel the gun going in the throat. You can not feel it going into the wind pipe. Slowly release the drench, just in case. The calf will cough up a storm if it is in the lung.
 
Tabby":1nhr77j7 said:
Hi, I just joined the boards and I need help terribly. Our neighbor bought 11 holstein bull calves Monday at the sale barn. They have been in our barn and so far we have lost 7. Went to the vet and got Nuflor and Albon for bloody scours and still lost over half. Of the remaining 4, 3 are eating milk replacer good. We were giving them 2 pints because they wouldn't take 4 pints, but we just knocked it up to 4 pints at this morning's feeding and they drank it just fine. The 4th one refuses to suck a bottle, so I have been tube feeding him. Been able to get 2-3 pints in him. They all have runny, like water scours. I started giving them terramycin this morning to treat the scours and they are eating good. I am just afraid that they are losing their food as soon as they get it and I don't want them to take a turn for the worst. I raised calves when I was younger and NEVER had this much trouble nor lost so many. What can I give them that is very effective on treating the scours? If we buy calves at the salebarn again ( thats a BIG "if") what do I need to have in preventative medicine to keep this from happening again? I appreciate any advice, this is way past my knowledge.
Tabby

Take them off milk replacer for 1days, and feed water mixed with deliver, got to stop the diahrrea, have to get it firmed up, and fast. I also use BoBac 2 SQ, huge doses under the skin, and Excenel. Afte the first day, mix one half milk, 1/2 deliver for the next 2-3 days, and keep giving some form of antibiotic, if Penicillen is all you have give that. Also I would feed Enterolyte, a pwder mixed with water inbetween this, has vitamins and minerals to spped up the healing, and keep them hydrated.

I would also move the rest of the calves to individual pens, so the disease doesn't spread anymore than it has.

GMN
 
Its called Five Point Medicated Standard Milk Replacer. I looked at the ingredients( didn't know until reading this board :oops: ) and first 3 are dried whey, dried whey product, soy flour. We bought 6 25# bags, I am going to see if I can return the ones we have unopened and try a better milk replacer. I :heart: this place!
 
Tabby":369x6zue said:
Its called Five Point Medicated Standard Milk Replacer. I looked at the ingredients( didn't know until reading this board :oops: ) and first 3 are dried whey, dried whey product, soy flour. We bought 6 25# bags, I am going to see if I can return the ones we have unopened and try a better milk replacer. I :heart: this place!

MFA has an all milk byproduct replacer, also kent, cigertone, there are a couple of others but I don;t recall what they are. The all milk ones are really pricey, but the claves do so much better on them it's worth the extra bucks.
 
Tabby":2oxu0giq said:
Lost 2 more, down to one. :cry: :mad:

This is really too bad, my guess is that whoever brought these to the sale barn knew they had a problem, or they were sick already. How much did your neighbor pay for them?

GMN
 
That's my guess too. I saw the guy that hauled them at the small animal sale Saturday. He saw me and tried to hide, so that tells me he knew. They were $65 a head for 10 and $40 for the last one. We have close to $1000 wrapped up, makes me sick to see money down the tubes.
 
OK ~ here's what I think......
I have raised lots of calves ~ certainly no where near as many as others, but enough to know that holstien calves from the sale barn are looking for an excuse to die. Don't beat yourself up too bad. It is a lot of work and a lot of money, and everybody who has raised calves has been there and done that.

Next time you buy babies, stack the odds in your favor a little. Try to buy direct from the farmer. This is easier with dairy than with beef ~ a steadier supply. Look at where the calves come from. Is the environment where babies are kept clean? Do they all look healthy? Ideally you/neighbor would be buying beef babies, they tend to be a little hardier in my opinion, will fight as long as they can.

Better luck next time. You have already learned a lot from this experience so it wasn;t a total wash.
 
You have gotten a lot of good advice so far. When I see signs of scouring I back off the amount of milk powder by half and continue the full amount of water in the mix. 10cc of Spectam scour halt and 2 Sustain III boloses. If this doesn't tighten them up in a couple of feedings you probably have more than common milk scours. Find a good farm as a source for your calves. Sale barn calves are generally a bad deal all the way around. Make sure you don't use soy based milk. Its pretty much useless. 20/20 fat and protien ratio milk based is the least I would consider. Don't give up or be discouraged. It will get better. Put a big heaping tablespoon of peanut butter in their mouth to keep energy up. Hope everything improves for you.
 
Hello I am very new at this but I have 2 1/2 month old bull calves Couple of them have had the scours I gave them Electrolites, they also have a cough. There scours are thickening up a little, but they are all eating good.
Thanks
 
FTJ":j17fnhq1 said:
Hello I am very new at this but I have 2 1/2 month old bull calves Couple of them have had the scours I gave them Electrolites, they also have a cough. There scours are thickening up a little, but they are all eating good.
Thanks

Get the cough checked out...before it become chronic.

Alice :)
 

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