Calves Gain Better

[endebt]

Well everyone has had a good time with getting cows to cycle here is something else i do. So have a good time with it. When we pull our bulls after 63 days of work we worm and vac the calves. We weigh calves when they are born and when we pull the Bulls. We also weigh calves at weaning. What we are seeing is the calves will gain about a lb. more than before. we are talking about 100 days. So it seems to be a good investment At our ranch. If a calve is ganing 1.8 lbs. adg. they will jump to 2.8adg. in todays market that is alot of money for a $5.00 investment.

 

[msscamp]

Endebt, are you saying that by worming and vaccinating when you do - you increase the weight gain by 1 lb? I'm not sure I'm understanding your post completely. Thanks!

 

[endebt]

Yes that is what is happening. The calves have been on pasture for about 110days. Now you worm them and give a calve vac this is clearing up the worms the calves have and makeing more room for feed useage. I have been doing it for about 4 years twice a year . We have 2 herds. We have a spring and fall calving season. There does not seem to be much difference in the time of year.

 

[msscamp]

It makes perfect sense to me, why would you think that people would not believe it? At least that was the impression I got from your initial post.

 

[endebt]

Msscamp you do'nt understand. In my area you are dealing with small town people. they are set in their ways. When we talk about anything that is new or old their comment is " great granddaddy, grand daddy or daddy did'nt do it just can't work. If it comes out of A@m you are wasting you maney to try it. I have used it and some still do'nt understand why i get more at sale time.

 

[msscamp]

Ohhhhhhh, those types! Gotcha! Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Scotty]

Msscamp you do'nt understand. In my area you are dealing with small town people. they are set in their ways. When we talk about anything that is new or old their comment is " great granddaddy, grand daddy or daddy did'nt do it just can't work. If it comes out of A@m you are wasting you maney to try it. I have used it and some still do'nt understand why i get more at sale time.

I know exactly what you are talking about.


Scotty

 

[purecountry]

Me too. When we started changing things in our own herd, my Grandad and Dad went, "Why wouldn't you stick with Angus?", or "Whatta ya wanta calve in June for?". Then the neighbours had to question it all. The last 3 years though have made a few of 'em open their eyes a little.

 

[jennibluis]

Well everyone has had a good time with getting cows to cycle here is something else i do. So have a good time with it. When we pull our bulls after 63 days of work we worm and vac the calves. We weigh calves when they are born and when we pull the Bulls. We also weigh calves at weaning. What we are seeing is the calves will gain about a lb. more than before. we are talking about 100 days. So it seems to be a good investment At our ranch. If a calve is ganing 1.8 lbs. adg. they will jump to 2.8adg. in todays market that is alot of money for a $5.00 investment.

Can you clarify for me, you worm the calves at about 2 months or at weaning? My offline friend wants to know.

 

[endebt]

We are worming about 100 days before weaning. This is when we are seeing the extra pound per day gain.

 

[jennibluis]

Thank you!

 

[Beef11]

Not to say i don't like the idea because i do, but won't a calf gain more between 100-200 days old than it will between birth and 100 days anyways? That would make it tough to distinguish what the net benefit was. I do like the idea, i will give it some thought. I am always looking for smarter ways of doing things. I looked at calving season changes but didn't suit my area, looked at AI, ET, species diversifacation, every kind of cross breeding system imaginable, intensive grazing and i got a couple of other things in the works now. Always fun to learn what makes it all tick. What do you think is causing the increase in gain? The worming? bolstered immune system? Dad gone so they can eat junk food? When do you castrate?
thanks

 

[cypressfarms]

Msscamp you do'nt understand. In my area you are dealing with small town people. they are set in their ways. When we talk about anything that is new or old their comment is " great granddaddy, grand daddy or daddy did'nt do it just can't work. If it comes out of A@m you are wasting you maney to try it. I have used it and some still do'nt understand why i get more at sale time.

I know exactly what you are talking about.


Scotty

And the only way we're going to leave this industry better off when we're gone is by listening to studies and stay well informed. A lot of times the ol' timers did things a certain way because there was no alternative. They are now reluctant to change. However, with today's technology (give me a break - presexed semen) we must use it to advance OUR industry and not sit back just content with average.

Sorry, off soap box now.

 

[Beef11]

What beef bulls are available to buy sexed semen on? I have done some work with the stuff but only in a dairy application. It is a neat alternative but still on the edge of being used on a widespread basis. I don't think it would pencil in a commercial deal but i'm sure there are some purebred outfits that could make good use of it.

 

[endebt]

I believe that by worming the calves you make more room for feed due to the worms being gone.IMO

 

[cypressfarms]

What beef bulls are available to buy sexed semen on? I have done some work with the stuff but only in a dairy application. It is a neat alternative but still on the edge of being used on a widespread basis. I don't think it would pencil in a commercial deal but i'm sure there are some purebred outfits that could make good use of it.

No beef bulls that I know of. The comment was made to underline how far technology has come. Could you imagine a cattle operation 40 or 50 years ago picking out semen from the other side of the globe, pre-sexed to throw all heifers? By the way, pre-sexed semen is available for stud horses already, but still pricey. It's just a matter of time before it's in the beef industry. Too much profit/opportunity at stake (or steak?)

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I believe that by worming the calves you make more room for feed due to the worms being gone.IMO

I dont know about making room for feed but it defintely will make a healthier calf and converts the feed to more pounds which in turn makes more money ;-)

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Genex is offering sexed semen this year on beef bulls. Haven't seen a list of which ones yet.
Instead of a 50% chance, you will have an 85% chance. Not sure if they will have "bull" and "hefer" smen.
We have wormed cows & calves about 8 weeks after being on grass, and again in the fall - for many many years now.
If you worm in the fall, than they shouldn't have a "load" of worms until they have been on grass about 8 weeks. Time enough to consume worms but before the worms start producing eggs to be deposited back into the fields thru the manure. Helps cows produce more milk also.
Latest info says "older" cows really don't need to be wormed as much. they build a "resistance" to worms.

 

[dun]

Genex is offering sexed semen this year on beef bulls. Haven't seen a list of which ones yet.
Instead of a 50% chance, you will have an 85% chance. Not sure if they will have "bull" and "hefer" smen.
We have wormed cows & calves about 8 weeks after being on grass, and again in the fall - for many many years now.
If you worm in the fall, than they shouldn't have a "load" of worms until they have been on grass about 8 weeks. Time enough to consume worms but before the worms start producing eggs to be deposited back into the fields thru the manure. Helps cows produce more milk also.
Latest info says "older" cows really don't need to be wormed as much. they build a "resistance" to worms.

Now if Genex would just get some bulls that I want to use.......................

dun

 

[City Guy]

Aren't there such things as parasite resistant cattle? I'm sure there are. I know several breeds of sheep (Katahdins, especially) are highly resistant to internal worms. And I have read articles about producers who never have to worm or even treat for flies because they have selected breeding stock for genetic resistance. Greg Judy says "You're better off to just sell your wormy cows and their calves." Many producers just treat the cattle actually infested and not the whole herd. That makes sense to me. In addition, I have read about some things that can help:

1. Frequent pasture rotation. Move cattle (and sheep) in three days or less to break the cycle of the horn fly.
2. Then move in the chickens to pick off the larvae.
3. Graze sheep and cattle together. Worms that affect sheep do not affect cattle and vise-versa. When a cow ingests an egg there is reasonable chance it's harmless. Same for the sheep.
4.Never graze closer than 4". Worms seldom deposit eggs above the 3" level.

Parasites develop a tolerance for the chemicals and thus get stronger while the livestock get weaker. Seems to me it ought to be the other way around.