Calling all Hereford people!

[SWSFHerefords]

I have owned, raised, and shown my own herefords for about ten years now. I just go to local shows because every time I send in entries for a bigger show I get talked out of it by other exhibitors. They either say my animals arent good enough or im not good enough. So eventually before I quit showing I would like to go to a bigger fair. I know every breed is different so I would like to see if those of you that own and show herefords could let me in on a few of your tips and tricks. I do all my own halter breaking and clipping along with everything else. I also would like to know what to expect for a bigger fair. I will be posting pictures of my show string soon. They are still pretty wooly and dirty right now. Its too cold to wash them. I will be showing A December 2007 polled hereford bull, a September 2008 polled hereford bull calf, an October 2008 polled hereford heifer, and a November 2008 Black baldy heifer (neighbors bull jumped the fence :? ). May show another older cow but I think I will have my hands full with these four. I read the thread about the curly hair so if anyone could let me in on any other secret tricks like that I would appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[KNERSIE]

Our shows are quite different in the sense that we don't overfeed heifers and don't want them to carry too much condition and we don't fit the animals either. Its simply wash and brush shows and no clipping is allowed because we select for a slick coat.

The best advice I can give is to be very picky about structure, you might be able to hide faults with hair, but if the judge is worth his salt he'll see through the hair anyway. Structurally good animals also set themselves up while those with faults will take alot of poking with the showstick to get them to stand properly and again it will show up in how the animal moves.

I am looking forward to your pics.

 

[SWSFHerefords]

Our shows are quite different in the sense that we don't overfeed heifers and don't want them to carry too much condition and we don't fit the animals either. Its simply wash and brush shows and no clipping is allowed because we select for a slick coat.

The best advice I can give is to be very picky about structure, you might be able to hide faults with hair, but if the judge is worth his salt he'll see through the hair anyway. Structurally good animals also set themselves up while those with faults will take alot of poking with the showstick to get them to stand properly and again it will show up in how the animal moves.

I am looking forward to your pics.

That is how our local shows are. I don't overfeed mine either. I do clip mine, but it is minimal clipping, they are shed out for the summer so its not like the big shows where the calves are still koosh balls lol. At the local shows I will just show whatever is easiest for me to get up and halter break. There are no other herefords to compete against so I just bring two or three, however many it takes to make a breed, and then I will try to help the FFA or 4-H kids with their steers. Here are a couple pictures of some of the cattle I showed over the past two years.

Reese is a Nov 2006 Heifer. She is a granddaughter of the Bellis' Turn Key bull and out of a Chandler cow.

Aspen is a Dec 2006 first calf heifer. Shes out of the same bull as the one before and a granddaughter of Feltons Jedi on the dams side. The bull calf at her side is the Sept 08 bull I will be showing. I have more recent pictures of him but they arent very good. Hes kind of a pet so hes hard to take pictures of since hes always pestering us.

Soren is the Turn Key son both of the heifers are out of.

Raighn is a Dec 2005 cow. She is sired by Feltons Jedi and out of a Chandler cow. That is Aspen at her side.

Ok last one for now I promise! This is Raighn and Aspen again. I was working with Aspen when Raighn got jealous and interferred. Notice the show stick?

 

[Aaron]

Practically speaking, Raighn and Aspen would definitely have a place on our operation.

But big shows aren't practical. Judging by the pictures, I think you have a real good chance in the ring with Aspen. She is the kind of eye-catcher that I and other judges like to see. Lots of volume, balance and a good set of legs. To me, Raighn is just a little too coarse up front and is a little too heavy in the bone. If she had a good haircoat come show time, you can do a lot with clipping and blending through the neck and shoulder.

You talk about what other breeders say to you. You can either have show cattle, or practical cattle. Trying to do both is a real balancing act that I never did master :dunce: . If you can do both, then your a better breeder than most :clap: . 98% of prize-winning show cattle are worthless in a practical ranch setting. :cowboy:

 

[SWSFHerefords]

Practically speaking, Raighn and Aspen would definitely have a place on our operation.

But big shows aren't practical. Judging by the pictures, I think you have a real good chance in the ring with Aspen. She is the kind of eye-catcher that I and other judges like to see. Lots of volume, balance and a good set of legs. To me, Raighn is just a little too coarse up front and is a little too heavy in the bone. If she had a good haircoat come show time, you can do a lot with clipping and blending through the neck and shoulder.

You talk about what other breeders say to you. You can either have show cattle, or practical cattle. Trying to do both is a real balancing act that I never did master :dunce: . If you can do both, then your a better breeder than most :clap: . 98% of prize-winning show cattle are worthless in a practical ranch setting. :cowboy:

I agree with you 100%. We raise practical cattle. I just like to show really so it doesnt bother me too bad when they place low. You say aspen would have a good chance but actually the first heifer I posted, Reese, beat her for grand champion at the local fair. The judges just dont like Raighn and Aspen at all. But they are large framed and my grandpa says Raighn looks like an anteater lol. I guess because of her long face. But they both raise the best calves on the farm. Im showing calves out of both of them this year. But our fair has kind of a "if its not black its not a cow" type vibe. A scrawny small black angus with mange will place over a national champion hereford every time lol. Its been that way as long as I can remember and its never the same judge so im not sure what the deal is. Its not just the herefords that get the shaft though its anything with a white face. It could be a simmental and get the same treatment. Thats another reason I want to try my hand at something bigger or not even bigger, just different. I want to see if my cattle are as bad as everyone says lol. Thank you Aaron for your compliments on my girls.

 

[Aaron]

That sounds familiar. With the exception of a couple years, I got a lot of poor placings when going against Char heifers and cows. They just like 'em big up here. But I usually would follow up on those heifers and the bottom placing cows usually outlasted the top ones. A lot of the Char heifers fell apart by the time they had their 2nd calf. I played their game one year, took a 5 month old, 600 lb Hereford heifer calf (GK Tradewind Z8 daughter) to the show and walked away with the Reserve Champ Hereford female banner.

But the joke was on me, as she turned out to be a huge 1800 lb terrible cow..no production value..just like the Char heifers I would compete against. :cowboy:

 

[KNERSIE]

While I totally agree that showring success don't mean didly if the cattle can't perform out in the real world we've got to be realistic when entering a show and really try and understand why certain traits are sought after in the showring and ultimately also the beef industry.

The general idea is to try and show off your best animals to be judged against the judge's idea of the ideal in phenotype. While personal preference will always play a role as long as human beings are used as judges there are breed standards and industry standards as far as phenotype goes. Study them and look at your own animals with a critical eye and decide for yourself how competitive you really are.

Judging by the photos your cattle certainly aren't extreme in size which is certainly a good thing in the pasture, but in the showring bigger animals usually draw more attention. I'm not saying to up the size of your cattle as it will most certainly be counterproductive where it really counts, but I am merely pointing out where you might struggle in the showring.

On the phenotype, heavier bone does better in the showring, bearing in mind that herefords is a medium bone breed, heavier bone within the breed standards indicate more area for muscle attachment and is a good indication of the potential to "fill out" with maturity.

Your females could certainly do with longer heavier muscling on the round and a stronger top with stronger shoulder attachment. The female wedge form with more depth and capacity could also have been stronger to get closer to the ideal in female beef animal form. They aren't poor specimens by any means, but they may not quite be show animals, the right bull on them can do wonders for the next generation of calves to make them more competitive.

Don't take this the wrong way, I don't want to discourage you at all, we need more young hereford enthusiasts, I was merely trying to point out a few areas that you can work on to become more competitive.

It looks like you are really having fun with your showstring and that is really what its all about. Good luck.

 

[SWSFHerefords]

Oh yes I have tons of fun with my cattle. More than I should probably lol. They arent really a big source of income for me but more of a hobby. They are all big pets. It just drives me crazy if I have a cow I cant hand feed or pet when I go out to the field.

My cattle arent just extremely huge. But for Herefords they are pretty big. I dont think we have a cow on the place that weighs under 1200lbs. I have one that looks more like a dairy cow than a hereford. She weighed in at 1400lbs when I bought her and she was skin and bones. Now I would bet she would weigh 1600lbs easy. She doesnt eat much more than the others and she raises amazing calves. Aspen and Reese are actually a couple of the smaller ones right now. Probably because they are still young. Thanks for your thoughts Knersie. I will try to remember what you said. I think their calves will be more competitive than the cows were but if they arent they still have a home here. They are still good breeding animals.

Aaron, you would lose to Charolais cows? Wow! I would actually like to see that down here. I like Charolais but the sale barns down here HATE white pink nosed calves. I dont really know why color plays such a big role. My first Hereford cow, Chandler, just passed away this winter at the age of nine. I bought her as a bred heifer but the man that I bought her from was trying to turn her into a show cow. Her feet ended up being horrible and like you said it just ruined her. We took care of her the best we could but she just wasnt going to last like the others do. We still have cows her age or older that are still going strong. Their teeth are all still intact. A little shorter but they eat well so as long as they are healthy we will keep them around. I just wish my girl hadnt been ruined like that. I was attached to her.

 

[angusbreederms]

First of all, let me say that I am glad to hear that you are raising your own show calves and enjoying your project. I am not saying there is a thing wrong with buying them, but you can really enjoy a win a lot more when they are “home gown.” I used to raise and show Herefords. We always believed you could have a “functional” show animal and that’s what we bred for. As time progressed in my area it got harder and harder to sell the Hereford calves so, I started raising Angus and Baldies. I still own some Hereford cows and will always have a few. My family and I have shown at all levels. You can check out some pictures of these wins on my website http://www.albersonshowcattle.com/index.html. It is a real encouragement to see a young adult like you with a desire to raise and work with cattle. I am a 4-H agent in a county where the kids do not have an interest in cattle. Now that has been a real challenge for me. Keep up the hard work and I wish you the best with your cattle.

 

[SWSFHerefords]

First of all, let me say that I am glad to hear that you are raising your own show calves and enjoying your project. I am not saying there is a thing wrong with buying them, but you can really enjoy a win a lot more when they are “home gown.” I used to raise and show Herefords. We always believed you could have a “functional” show animal and that’s what we bred for. As time progressed in my area it got harder and harder to sell the Hereford calves so, I started raising Angus and Baldies. I still own some Hereford cows and will always have a few. My family and I have shown at all levels. You can check out some pictures of these wins on my website http://www.albersonshowcattle.com/index.html. It is a real encouragement to see a young adult like you with a desire to raise and work with cattle. I am a 4-H agent in a county where the kids do not have an interest in cattle. Now that has been a real challenge for me. Keep up the hard work and I wish you the best with your cattle.

I bet that is hard! There were still several kids in my FFA that show horses and cattle. But now its more of the city type kids and they just do plants or whatever is the easiest they can get by with for their projects. Our steer prices at the county fair really fell too so I think that has a lot to do with the kids not showing steers anymore. Now the kids will be lucky to break even on their steers or they will actually lose money. So the parents send the calves to the sale barn instead of letting the kids show one. But with the economy how it is I cant really blame anyone for not wanting to lose that much money so the kid can show. It just sucks though. When I started showing you had to get to the barn the night before or really early in the morning to even get a spot. Now only about half the barn is full during the fair. Its so sad . I just love my herefords. My commercial calves were always so hard to halter break. Today I went out to the barn and my young bull show prospect was in the lot. So I shut the gate and he followed me to a smaller pen where I usually mess with them (my cattle do not shoo they are kind of like buffalo lol). I shut him in the smaller pen and went to get Aspen, his mom. They seem to always work better when they dont have to worry about mom. I got a halter on him on the second try and he was following me around the lot within about 10 minutes! I was so proud of him. Granted it wasnt really giving to pressure or anything like that quite yet but I was still proud. I brushed him all over, made him set his feet, and we walked around the lot several times with only one or two fits. I thought that was really really good for never having a halter on before. The only bad thing is he is a love bug bad. He always wants to be with you. He will come up and set his chin on your chest so you can reach down and scratch his neck. Hes goin to be a hard one to let go! Since it was just chance he happened to be at the barn I, of course, didnt have my camera I will keep it in the truck from now on! I did get a couple rough pictures of a few of the others. So I will post them. Hope you guys dont mind the loads of pictures you will see from me from now on!

This is Holly. She is sired by the Turn Key son. She was born September 08. She will be horned

This is Stetson. He is another one of our bull prospects. He is sired by the Turn Key son and out of a Explosion daughter. He has really nice lines and numbers so I hope he goes to a really good home. Sorry for the bad picture. He would NOT get up. He is an October calf.

Here is Aspen again for those of you that have taken a liking to her.

Here is a cow I call Ella. She is full blooded but no papers unfortunately. That is her bull calf that was born last month. I think he will be pretty nice.

Here is Ella. She should be my next one to calve...if she doesnt pop first. Lol. She is full blooded too but not papered. Please excuse the orange nose she was at the mineral lick.

Here is Too Tall...I bet you can guess why we call her that. She is the one that was very underweight when I bought her out of a kill pen at a local sale barn. I worked for the vet and asked him to preg her then tracked down the owner to see why he was selling her. She weighed in at 1400lbs even though she was skinny and I got her for 50 cents a pound. She still looks thin but she is NOT hungry. She has all she could ever want to eat she just will always look like a milk cow I guess. I know she has hereford in her and maybe shorthorn. What do you guys think?

This is Montana. He is out of Raighn and sired by the Turn Key son. He is the one I am showing this summer and he will be one of our herd bulls this fall. Horrible picture of him that makes him look short sided but other than that what do you think?

This is our other herd bull Jethro. He has grown quite a bit this picture was taken about 5 months ago. He is sired by a bull called Pierre off the Journagan farm in Mtn Grove and out of a Klondike Vindicator Daughter.

Oh and this is my bottle baby that I will bringing along with me to the fairs this summer. She looks a little rough now and this is a bad picture but does she look short to you guys? She is on full feed and gets a bottle twice a day. Shes a November calf.

Sorry about the picture overload!

 

[SWSFHerefords]

Ok so I did get pictures of my younger calves that I will be showing this year. Please let me know what you think of them. They arent the best pictures but I hope they are good enough.

Mason. Turn Key son X Aspen. September 2008 Bull calf.

Destin. Turn Key son X Raighn. October 2008 Heifer calf.

Skeeter. Black Angus bull X Chandler (Churchill breeding). November 2008 Heifer calf.

 

[Aaron]

Your going to have to keep us posted on Holly. She's a looker.

Is that Aspen as a first calver? Looks pretty good.

Cow with calf. Like the calf. Like the cow, except that udder and teats..need something a lot tighter and smaller.

Looks like something is wrong with Ella's jaw.

Too Tall is definitely part dairy. Not my cup of tea.

Montana looks like he has some muscle on him. Worthy bull prospect.

How old is Pierre. With Klondike, he has the genes to back him up. Would like to see more quarter in him. Looks like he has a fair set of testicles. Looks a lot like a typical Klondike bull.

Your bottle baby is standing stretched out, so hard to tell if she's short or not. Looks like she is alright.

Mason - Not masculine enough. I thought, before I read your comment, that he was a heifer.

Destin - Too much frame, not enough guts. I wouldn't consider keeping her in my herd.

Skeeter - Will make a bred commercial heifer. Can't say their is anything I really like about her, but she isn't terrible either.

 

[KNERSIE]

Montana is the stand out calf by a long shot, the others are much later maturing animals and to get them to be competitive will take a lots of feed for a very long time.

 

[SWSFHerefords]

Well I will keep you guys posted on them as they get older. I think you will think more of them when they get a little older. Montana actually looked similar to Mason when he was that age but once he got out of that gangly stage he looked a lot better.

Aaron I will keep you posted on Holly. Would you believe Holly is Too Talls daughter?
That is a picture of Aspen I just took a couple days ago. Mason is her first calf.
The cow with calf is ella and her bull calf. She is about 8 years old so I would say that has something to do with her udder. She raises really good calves and still eats well so ill keep her around for a while.
Nothing is wrong with Emmas jaw. Maybe its just the picture?
Thank you for the compliment of Montana. I will try to get a better picture one of these days. He follows us around everywhere though so its hard to get a picture.
Jethro, the pierre son, turned two this past December.
Mason I think will grow into a nicer bull than you think he will right now. But if im wrong he will be culled later.
Destin will stay in the herd. Most of her sires calves look like that when they are about her age and grow out really well, with the exception of Holly. I guess its because of Too Tall but those calves always look different and are really good calves.
Skeeters mom was a pretty competitive show cow. She may never be the same as her mom but I think she will work for a commercial cow in the herd.



The calves wont be shown until August so they have time to grow and eat. But I wont overfeed them like we discussed earlier. I wont ruin any of them. Its not worth it to me.

Thanks everyone for the comments.

 

[angusbreederms]

This is one of my Hereford cows. She has a nice baldy steer on her.

 

[SWSFHerefords]

Angusbreederms, I really like your cow. How old is she? Her topline is extremely straight and I like her udder. Ship her to Missouri if you get tired of her!

Oh Aaron I forgot to mention the heifer you dont like much, Destin, is Aspens full sister lol.

Id like to show you guys a picture of Montana when he was a couple months older than Mason. He didnt look too great then either but hes a looker now. I really like him now.

Montana then...

 

[angusbreederms]

She will be 9 this year. I guess she wil have a few more years in production here in MS. I guess you can say she is one of my front pasture cows!!!

Here is a Hereford Bull that I sold last year...


Remitall Highway x Nick the Butler

 

[angusbreederms]

Of the pictures posted, I would put my time in with the Holly heifer. With a little time, feed, and elbow grease she might do alright in the show ring.

These are some heifers that I have sold as show heifers.



View attachment 1

View attachment 2

 

[SWSFHerefords]

Wow your cow looks good for a nine year old. Well I would love to show Holly but I think she would take more work than I have time this summer. Shes for sure not going anywhere though lol. Whenever she gets to breeding age I would like to AI her to a horned bull. I love horned herefords but you just dont see many of them around here anymore. Holly will be horned too.

 

[Aaron]

This is the type of bull you need to breed Holly too.