calf squirting out orange juice

[Beefy]

is it ok to give Corid AND sulfaboluses (like for scours) or would that be a no-no? will the combination have adverse effects? i'm not sure that its coccidiosis but i have a gut feeling, vet isnt very helpful, so i'm sort of grasping at straws.

i had one that i gave sulfaboluses and her diahrrea got really thick and pastey and she wound up dying. i think i will try giving this one only a couple or boluses, rather than the recommended amount. (shes about 350-400lbs)

 

[Beefy]

i forgot to mention that she was wormed with valbazen about 4 days ago.

 

[hillsdown]

Sorry Beefy, I am not ignoring your response but I have no experience with corid..

Good luck with your calf though..

 

[larryshoat]

Beefy, I don't think there is any problem using the 2 together . I think I would give the recomended dose . What is her temp ?

Larry

 

[Beefy]

thanks hillsdown.

Larry, i just came in from messing with her. i have had her up for about a week b/c she had a bottle jaw and was looking for something green. i gave her feed and hay for a few days then put her out where she could get some rye but she hasnt really taken to it despite the fact she was searching for it before. the reason i feel i'm dealing with a parasite is because of the bottlejaw and i feel that it is parasite rather than disease b/c its affecting cattle of all ages... mostly yearlings but also first calf heifers and older cows. i've tried different wormers and valbazen seems to help some at least temporarily. ivomec and cydectin have had no affect. after the bottle jaw comes diarrhea, usually just runny, but then sometimes mucusy. one bull calf appeared to pass amniotic fluids, and now this one is shooting orange juice. the last heifer (that died) had the runs, so i gave her some valbazen, the recommended dosage of sulfaboluses, some la200 and some banamine (again, trying anything..). the next morning her bottle jaw was GONE and i assume this was due to the sulfaboluses dehydrating her. also her diarrhea went from shooting to cookie dough consistency overnight and she would bawl when she took a dump. but back to current calf--so tonite she was near the pen so i moved her back off the rye since she wasnt eating it anyway and put her in a pen with some bermuda hay, peanut hay, feed, and water with corid in it. i decided not to give her the sulfaboluses just yet since i'm pretty sure that didnt help matters last go round.

 

[KNERSIE]

If Ivomec and Cydectin didn't help, the most likely cause would be flukes of some sort. The bottle jaw would have been a good indication of liver fluke if it was here in SA. Typically cattle starts losing weight with a real untrifty coat, have the squirts, which can vary in colour from green to almost black with every shade and colour inbetween, develope a bottle jaw and become very anemic. A single treatment is seldom sufficient and the road to recovery is slow in advanced cases. Once the squirts stop and the anemia and bottle jaw is still evident a good dose of Epsom salts (2 cups disolved in 1/2 gallon water, given as a drench) will usually help drain the bottle jaw and jaundice caused by the damage to the liver, but will cause the stool to be very runny as a result.

On a sidenote, dosing with Valbazen will cause loose stool for a day or so afterwards.

 

[larryshoat]

Beefy, I reckon I'm kinda thinking like you about the parasites, or something they're eating since it's affecting all ages . I would get a temp on her just to make sure . As far as a wormer in this situation I would try safe-gard oral paste ( if you haven't already). Some probios might be helpful along with some B-complex . If at all possible it's probably time to look for another vet .

Larry

 

[Beefy]

Thanks Knersie. i sort of figured the loose stool (with this calf anyway) was due at least in part if not entirely to the valbazen. it seems like the third day after worming them is the hardest on them. but the orangeness threw me off. this time last year i had a few bottle jaws that wouldnt go away and i was convinced i had a fluke problem and/or that i had a resitance problem with ivomec (people around here think i'm stupid for believing in resistance but thats another thread..). i asked the vet and he said no, we dont have flukes here. i was not convinced. the vet supply man said no,. no flukes in our area. but i had to see for myself. so i went with ivomec plus specifically to target the flukes. well, it didnt really seem to help. so i kind of ruled out flukes. now i'm reconsidering after you say it may take multiple times. my cows range in wetlands or sandhills, depending on mother nature. i have treated calves multiple times with valbazen and after about the third time they seem to get better. but will flukes cause the manure to be almost gelatinous and clear? or if firm it will soemtimes have muscousy looking stuff in it (is the sloughing of the intestine?). this is why i'm thinking more along the lines of coccidiosis now. oh another symptom from merck is that they eventually lay down on their side with their head arched back and cant get up and mine have done this too.

will the bottle jaw not eventually go away on its own after the ailment is cleared up? i dont expect it to disappear overnight (thats why i was shocked with the last calf when hers was compeltely gone the next morning--i really think the sulfaboluses did her in by dehyration)

also, if Milkmaid is out there reading this i'd like to request a do-it-yourself Necropsy thread or in my case a Necropsy for Dummies thread.

 

[KNERSIE]

Thanks Knersie. i sort of figured the loose stool (with this calf anyway) was due at least in part if not entirely to the valbazen. it seems like the third day after worming them is the hardest on them. but the orangeness threw me off. this time last year i had a few bottle jaws that wouldnt go away and i was convinced i had a fluke problem and/or that i had a resitance problem with ivomec (people around here think i'm stupid for believing in resistance but thats another thread..). i asked the vet and he said no, we dont have flukes here. i was not convinced. the vet supply man said no,. no flukes in our area. but i had to see for myself. so i went with ivomec plus specifically to target the flukes. well, it didnt really seem to help. so i kind of ruled out flukes. now i'm reconsidering after you say it may take multiple times. my cows range in wetlands or sandhills, depending on mother nature. i have treated calves multiple times with valbazen and after about the third time they seem to get better. but will flukes cause the manure to be almost gelatinous and clear? or if firm it will soemtimes have muscousy looking stuff in it (is the sloughing of the intestine?). this is why i'm thinking more along the lines of coccidiosis now. oh another symptom from merck is that they eventually lay down on their side with their head arched back and cant get up and mine have done this too.

will the bottle jaw not eventually go away on its own after the ailment is cleared up? i dont expect it to disappear overnight (thats why i was shocked with the last calf when hers was compeltely gone the next morning--i really think the sulfaboluses did her in by dehyration)

also, if Milkmaid is out there reading this i'd like to request a do-it-yourself Necropsy thread or in my case a Necropsy for Dummies thread.

The fact that your cattle run in wetlands that dries up certain times of the year also adds to the fluke theory. Typically the dry season is when it rears its ugly head after the concentration was higher because of fewer wet areas. Over here we have 3 types, large liverfluke, small liverfluke and the conical fluke. The latter is in the small intestine and is the hardest to treat.

If the dung is really firm and dry with that slimy coating don't rule out anaplasmosis, that will also cause bottle jaw and jaundice, but usually with a very high fever, pale eyelids and droopy ears.

Coccidiosis squirts is usually very runny green with spots of blood. I've had good success with injectable sulfas.

The bottle jaw will eventually disappear on its own, but the Epsom salts will help drain it faster and make the healing process quicker as well, especially used after anaplasmosis.

 

[Beefy]

Beefy, I reckon I'm kinda thinking like you about the parasites, or something they're eating since it's affecting all ages . I would get a temp on her just to make sure . As far as a wormer in this situation I would try safe-gard oral paste ( if you haven't already). Some probios might be helpful along with some B-complex . If at all possible it's probably time to look for another vet .

Larry

Larry--
hes actually a pretty good vet, but hes about the only one around who sees cows, and hes more into small animals nowadays. admittedly, i probably fall into the category of the guy who calls the vet to come fix a dying cow as a last effort after i've tried everything. he always jokes about i only call him for freak cases and i always told him to expect that b/c if it was something easy i could fix it.

he was out here a few months back. i had a cow go down and i told him i thought it was from parasites. he looked at her gums, then kicked her stool around and he told me she was just old and worn out and lacking energy. i told him she was going on 12... he said she may be older than that. i said, no, i just looked at her records and she is exactly that age. "Oh." he said. so he took a fecal sample in and called back and said she had a lot of worms. i know he said haemonchus and osteragia and i think he said she had a few cocci but i'm not positive on that...

anyway, i wormed the calf with valbazen about 4 days ago so i wont try the safegaurd with her as puny as she is but i will use it on the next one maybe. does anyone know if the safegaurd blocks are effective? i guess it depends on the parasite but i was thinking about trying those at some point.

i remember a thread back in 2006 in the winter time by someone who said he had a freind in florida whos cattle started going down and the vet finaly figured out that it was some kind of worm that the wormer wasnt getting. i just assumed this person actually was talking about flukes but now i wonder what the actual diagnosis was. i'm not far from florida myself. i wish i knew who said that or could find the thread.

you are right tho Larry-it does give me a little bit of comfort that i'm dealing with a parasite rather than a disease (like Johne's) b/c of the ages afflicted. at first i was worried it was that b/c it was a first calver and old cow with the bottle jaw but then when the pre-weaned calves started getting it too it was a little bit of a relief even if she did up and fall over dead. i havent ruled out a combination of parasites and fast acting pneumonia either even tho i've tried nuflor and that didnt help.

i also thought about the nutrition aspect of it all but hay changes have been made and that didnt do anything so i've pretty much ruled that out. they have been getting protein tubs with minerals. i'll get to the bottom of this one way or another even if i have to drag the calf into town

 

[Beefy]

The fact that your cattle run in wetlands that dries up certain times of the year also adds to the fluke theory. Typically the dry season is when it rears its ugly head after the concentration was higher because of fewer wet areas. Over here we have 3 types, large liverfluke, small liverfluke and the conical fluke. The latter is in the small intestine and is the hardest to treat.

If the dung is really firm and dry with that slimy coating don't rule out anaplasmosis, that will also cause bottle jaw and jaundice, but usually with a very high fever, pale eyelids and droopy ears.

Coccidiosis squirts is usually very runny green with spots of blood. I've had good success with injectable sulfas.

The bottle jaw will eventually disappear on its own, but the Epsom salts will help drain it faster and make the healing process quicker as well, especially used after anaplasmosis.

yeah i never have seen any blood in the squirts. i'm going to study up on anaplaz, i havent thought of that. i am reconsidering flukes again now too since you said that about multiple treatments. what do you use to treat them?

 

[KNERSIE]

The fact that your cattle run in wetlands that dries up certain times of the year also adds to the fluke theory. Typically the dry season is when it rears its ugly head after the concentration was higher because of fewer wet areas. Over here we have 3 types, large liverfluke, small liverfluke and the conical fluke. The latter is in the small intestine and is the hardest to treat.

If the dung is really firm and dry with that slimy coating don't rule out anaplasmosis, that will also cause bottle jaw and jaundice, but usually with a very high fever, pale eyelids and droopy ears.

Coccidiosis squirts is usually very runny green with spots of blood. I've had good success with injectable sulfas.

The bottle jaw will eventually disappear on its own, but the Epsom salts will help drain it faster and make the healing process quicker as well, especially used after anaplasmosis.

yeah i never have seen any blood in the squirts. i'm going to study up on anaplaz, i havent thought of that. i am reconsidering flukes again now too since you said that about multiple treatments. what do you use to treat them?

For routine treatments I use Ivomec Super (equivalent to your Ivomecplus), but for individual cases and heavy infections I use Pro-Inject Yellow, its a Virbac product. Jerry Hambley couldn't find any in Kansas, so not sure its available over there, but I can look up the chemistry for you to try and find an alternative.

Valbazen Concentrate works well too, but drenching always results in a lot of waste and you never know how much stayed inside, I have used Tramizan with success in the past too but none comes close to Pro-Inject Yellow.

 

[Keren]

Beefy, I have a set of photos for do it yourself autopsy on goats/sheep, same process on any animal really. Can post them if you like?

 

[Howdyjabo]

I'd like to see them

 

[Keren]

I will get it done over the next few days.

Thanks for the other link by the way, beefy. VERY good!