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Calf Pulling Rule of thumb

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Lee

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Any body have a rule of thumb as to when to start helping a heifer calve ?

?? minutes after the water bag shows ?

?? minuutes after feet start showing ?

?? minutes after the calves tounge sticks out (lack of air) ?

Or if she's a heifer "You better get her in and start helping"

I have started to soon and they don't want to take the calf later.

Maybe this should be a poll, But I don't know how to do that.
 

dun

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Generaly,

30 minutes after the water bag shows i the feet haven't should up yet.
60 minuutes after feet start showing

0 minutes after the calves tounge sticks out (lack of air), once the head shows, if the calf doesn't continue out it's time to help

give the following a read

http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/a ... g02007.htm

dun
 

cherokeeruby

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This is abysmal, get F-1 hereford-brahmans, you will have much much less calving difficulty.

dun":nl25yb28 said:
Generaly,

30 minutes after the water bag shows i the feet haven't should up yet.
60 minuutes after feet start showing

0 minutes after the calves tounge sticks out (lack of air), once the head shows, if the calf doesn't continue out it's time to help

give the following a read

http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/a ... g02007.htm

dun
 

dun

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No one wins an argument with a fool!

dun



cherokeeruby":22wnp2hs said:
This is abysmal, get F-1 hereford-brahmans, you will have much much less calving difficulty.

dun":22wnp2hs said:
Generaly,

30 minutes after the water bag shows i the feet haven't should up yet.
60 minuutes after feet start showing

0 minutes after the calves tounge sticks out (lack of air), once the head shows, if the calf doesn't continue out it's time to help

give the following a read

http://muextension.missouri.edu/xplor/a ... g02007.htm

dun
 

WORANCH

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Now Dun, you know that arguing with a women is useless! If she has never had a calving problem she hasn't been doing this very long.
 

cherokeeruby

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20 years calving problems less than 1%

WORANCH":2c66v80k said:
Now Dun, you know that arguing with a women is useless! If she has never had a calving problem she hasn't been doing this very long.
 

WORANCH

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thats great ..... i will assume you helped the 1%... so what was your rule of thumb for helping a cow or heifer?? this was what Lee was asking in his post....
 
A

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I worked on a dairy farm for years. We bred heifers to holstein bulls so every so often you would have to help pull a calf. If both feet are out we usually waited about one hour, now that also depends on if she is pushing and trying or not. If water bag has been out a while and no feet showed, we'd check her to see if the calf was in the correct position. Sometimes if they had been at it for a while and pushing, we'd pull even though they would have most likely had them by themselves because we didn't want them to strain more thatn need be.
Just be aware how and when to pull, but it is best to prevent it. Don't think brahmans have to be in the equation to lessen the number of pullings.
 
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Lee

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Thanks Dun for the web site.
I don't think I'm going to go into the Brama Bussiness just for calving ease. I have pretty good luck with my Herefords and use black Angus on my first calf heifers.
My origanal post was just to see if someone had a rule of thumb on timeing.
 

Campground Cattle

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Lee I am either the dumbest or luckest, lost only two calves in last ten years. I am not going to babysit a cow or heifer she had better be able to spit that thing out. Lee you said you where a Hereford man get some Braxton Gaint or Vidicator bloodlines calves get here about the size of a housecat. To awnser your original question Dun gave you some good advice. And yes I have assisted a cow before, but not the next year, that cow/calf pair is sold. I still advicate ruthless culling of the herd. The only exception is this might be a hobby for you. Just curious what are the blodlines on this heifer.
 

jcarkie

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i have a copy of calving the cow and care of the calf by the tv vet it has a lot of good advice it is an older book but it is helpful. i have seen it still on the web. if you can find a copy, but nothing works like experience
 

dun

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In 1968 we pulled a calf from a 900 lb heifer, the calf was a 105 lb Charolais. Saved the calf, but the cow prolapsed and in the desert with 30 mph winds 100+ degrees and no vet for 125 miles, by the time we were able to really help the little gril she was almost dead. Fianlly died late that night.
Night before last we had to pull another calf, the first one since 1968. Nice little heifer, smallish heifer calf, She never went into labor and didn't dilate. When we got the calf out the afterbirth came too. Vet figured she should have calved 6-8 hours before. She never shoed any signs till her water broke at 11 pm. She will be growing wheels as soon as she drys up. That's two in 30 some odd years. Those are of our own. BTW the first one was a heifer that was given to me in a barter deal.
We've pulled hundreds of calves for others. The point is, even if you never have to pull one, it's a valuable skill and knowledge to have.

dun


Campground Cattle":39cpe3kt said:
Lee I am either the dumbest or luckest, lost only two calves in last ten years. I am not going to babysit a cow or heifer she had better be able to spit that thing out. Lee you said you where a Hereford man get some Braxton Gaint or Vidicator bloodlines calves get here about the size of a housecat. To awnser your original question Dun gave you some good advice. And yes I have assisted a cow before, but not the next year, that cow/calf pair is sold. I still advicate ruthless culling of the herd. The only exception is this might be a hobby for you. Just curious what are the blodlines on this heifer.
 

cherokeeruby

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Rule of thumb.

1. Heifers take longer, two hours with the hooves and head showing is not unusual as long as the heifer is still pushing and progress seems to be being made.

2. Tongue sticking out, vet said this is normal, their head is squashed.

3. Anything other than two legs and a head showing is of concern.

Managed to get one to the vet in time with a breech upside down calf mainly because the cow walked into the corral on her own. Have been culling as ruthlessly as Campground Cattle from the beginning. Have only bred Brahman to Brahman or Hereford to Brahman. Small calves.

WORANCH":2uaw42u4 said:
thats great ..... i will assume you helped the 1%... so what was your rule of thumb for helping a cow or heifer?? this was what Lee was asking in his post....
 

dun

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I yacked with the vet this weekend about the heifer that didn't actaully go into labor.
He says that about 1 in 50 dairy heifers will do it. Primarily Brown Swiss. You have to realize that we only have Holsteins Brown Swiss and Jerseys in this area. The nearest Guernsey and Milking Shorthorn herds are 100 miles plus away so he doesn't work with them.
With beef heifers he sees more like one in a couple of hundred but more frequently among Braunvieh and Black Angus. Bearing in mind again that the two largest breeders of registered cattle in this area are Braunvieh and the other Black Angus. Rarely sees it in crossbreeds, but thinks it's maybe because those that would have a genetic propensity to the problem get sent to slaughter because they aren't in the high dollar value range that registered stuff is. I didn't ask if it may be genetic butfrom his other answers I think he may feel that it is. Heifers that have the problem contribute to other heifers that do. Anyway, that's what I would think.
Just some thoughts because this whole deal has been driving me nuts. In now more then 40 years I've never had the problem but I did assist with pulling a bunch of calves from another herd that had the problem and continues to have it each year.

dun
 

PATB

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General rule of thumb on heifers is 45 minutes if they are not making progress. The 2nd rule of thumb of mine is if heifer is calving and I need to go somewhere assist heifer with calf before leaving. This is the first year we have had to assist heifers with normal birth in 3 years. Dad's young herd bull bred some heifers that we thought were bred AI. He is not calving ease but has nice looking calves. I will error on the side of caution when it comes to assisting a animal in labor. a live animal brings a lot more than coyote bait.
 

BLACKPOWER

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cherokeeruby":2vxh2aux said:
Rule of thumb.


2. Tongue sticking out, vet said this is normal, their head is squashed.

.
[/quote]

Not normal. Strong indicator of trouble. Toungue sticking out becomes swollen......... head gets swollen.........brain is swelling..........calf can't get colostrum.......calf dies. But you have brahman so I understand your lack of comprehension.
 

cherokeeruby

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You are correct, after a while it can mean trouble. But just for a few minutes it is ok. Sorry I wasn't clearer, but I am glad you have found a new victim.
 

donnaIL

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I watched one of our calves born to with tongue sticking out. The calf is fine. Checked on the cow, nothing happening, checked again in 30 minutes, the calf head with tounge sticking out, calf born within 30 minutes(maybe less, seemed like forever). He was quite active and able to nurse. I'm not saying its the norm or desirable (it did make me nervous)..I followed the books advice, if progress if being made leave it alone.
 

Ellie May

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IF you wait long enough like your suppose too you won't have a problem. The heifers will be plenty big, so you won't have calving problems. Everbody is in such a rush. Besides I hate it when you have to pull, I'd talk about some stories but I don't wanna talk about them let alone remember the pain & agony the calf/heifer went through.
Ellie May
 

Jake

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don't get me started on breeding age again we went around about this once. There is no reason that you can't breed heifers at 14 months or even a few sooner your heifers should be growthy enough and if bred to a low birth weight bull they will be fine.
 

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