Calf dropping ears.

[gendronf]

I have a calf born on September 11. 85 pounds. I gave him that day, 1.5 cc of Dystocel(Selenium) and 3 cc of vitamaster. For the first 10 days of his life, he was normal. Within a few days, he drops ears and since they never got up. He is eating good. I check the cow every day. He does'nt strave. At thas time he had a running nose (very little). I gave him draxxin. 4 days later, his ears still down, for 3 days, I gave him 4cc of trimidox. (I tought maybe there is a bug that draxxin did'nt hit.) No improvement. I gave him another shot of dystocel 1 cc. My vet came and he told me to try peneciline (the white one) 4 cc for 5 days. I did he still the same. Since 4 days he is walking like a drunk calf. His temperature is normal. Before to kill him would you try something else. Is there something that I did'nt do.
Marcel

 

[TB-Herefords]

Dont fix what aint broke. Take a ear notch and send to be tested. My ears would stay down too with all that medicine. Did you check temp. Is he active. Sounds like your putting a lot into him and there is no change is him. Figure out what is wrong befor you keep doctoring him. Vet sounded like my self; not much help . I would keep pushing a Vet if it continues to be a problem.

 

[larryshoat]

I don't think there is much else you can do.Usually you see this in only one ear,but this little guy seems to have it in both ears.The draxxin probably took out the infection ,but the inner ear damage is still there and may never heal.He could grow out of it,but will probably always be poor.

Larry

 

[hillsdown]

Could be septicemia. Did you iodine the naval when he was born?

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... /51400.htm

Encephalitis is the most readily recognized form of listeriosis in ruminants. It affects all ages and both sexes, sometimes as an epidemic in feedlot cattle or sheep. The course in sheep and goats is rapid, and death may occur 24-48 hr after onset of signs; however, the recovery rate can be up to 30% with prompt, aggressive therapy. In cattle, the course is less acute, and the recovery rate approaches 50%. Lesions are localized in the brain stem, and the signs indicate dysfunction of the third to seventh cranial nerves.
Initially, affected animals are anorectic, depressed, and disoriented. They may propel themselves into corners, lean against stationary objects, or circle toward the affected side. Facial paralysis with a drooping ear, deviated muzzle, flaccid lip, and lowered eyelid often develops on the affected side, as well as lack of a menace response and profuse, almost continuous, salivation; food material often becomes impacted in the cheek due to paralysis of the masticatory muscles. Terminally affected animals fall and, unable to rise, lie on the same side; involuntary running movements are common.

Treatment and Control:
L monocytogenes is susceptible to penicillin (the drug of choice), ceftiofur, erythromycin, and trimethoprim/sulfonamide. High doses are required because of the difficulty in achieving minimum bactericidal concentrations in the brain. Recovery depends on early, aggressive antibiotic treatment. If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.


Treatment and Control:
L monocytogenes is susceptible to penicillin (the drug of choice), ceftiofur, erythromycin, and trimethoprim/sulfonamide. High doses are required because of the difficulty in achieving minimum bactericidal concentrations in the brain. Recovery depends on early, aggressive antibiotic treatment. If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.

 

[gendronf]

Could be septicemia. Did you iodine the naval when he was born?

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... /51400.htm

Encephalitis is the most readily recognized form of listeriosis in ruminants. It affects all ages and both sexes, sometimes as an epidemic in feedlot cattle or sheep. The course in sheep and goats is rapid, and death may occur 24-48 hr after onset of signs; however, the recovery rate can be up to 30% with prompt, aggressive therapy. In cattle, the course is less acute, and the recovery rate approaches 50%. Lesions are localized in the brain stem, and the signs indicate dysfunction of the third to seventh cranial nerves.
Initially, affected animals are anorectic, depressed, and disoriented. They may propel themselves into corners, lean against stationary objects, or circle toward the affected side. Facial paralysis with a drooping ear, deviated muzzle, flaccid lip, and lowered eyelid often develops on the affected side, as well as lack of a menace response and profuse, almost continuous, salivation; food material often becomes impacted in the cheek due to paralysis of the masticatory muscles. Terminally affected animals fall and, unable to rise, lie on the same side; involuntary running movements are common.

Treatment and Control:
L monocytogenes is susceptible to penicillin (the drug of choice), ceftiofur, erythromycin, and trimethoprim/sulfonamide. High doses are required because of the difficulty in achieving minimum bactericidal concentrations in the brain. Recovery depends on early, aggressive antibiotic treatment. If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.


Treatment and Control:
L monocytogenes is susceptible to penicillin (the drug of choice), ceftiofur, erythromycin, and trimethoprim/sulfonamide. High doses are required because of the difficulty in achieving minimum bactericidal concentrations in the brain. Recovery depends on early, aggressive antibiotic treatment. If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.

Thank Hillsdown
He was born in a field so I did'nt use iodine. He is inside since the 20 september. The way he is, I think you are right. It's probably a form of encephalitis. At this point, I got nothing to loose. I will gave him the treatment suggested. I have a bottle of Procaine Penecillin G and in 10 minutes he will get one injection IM and an another one IV.
Marcel

 

[hillsdown]

Gendronf at this point all you can do is try.What you are doing sounds like a good plan just don't over medicate him.Now to take a page from Alices' book Give the little guy pro bios also to help his abomasum from effects of the meds.

Good luck I sure hope the he makes it.

 

[gendronf]

Gendronf at this point all you can do is try.What you are doing sounds like a good plan just don't over medicate him.Now to take a page from Alices' book Give the little guy pro bios also to help his abomasum from effects of the meds.

Good luck I sure hope the he makes it.

You say don't over medicate him. If I follow the treatment they say 44000 U/kg IM and the same IV. He weight around 100 pounds, so it's 7 cc IM and 7 cc IV. It's a horse dose. Is my maths. are OK
Marcel

 

[hillsdown]

That is what the vet manual says and my calculations are the same.But I am not a vet.You should be safe, it's the long term effects of over treatment that really matter.

Go ahead and then call your Vet in the morning and tell him/her the treatment you would like to continue and get their input.

Sorry that's all I have.

 

[Alan]

I have a bottle of Procaine Penecillin G and in 10 minutes he will get one injection IM and an another one IV.
Marcel

IV pen injections will kill a horse, it's IM only, I don't know about cattle but I'm sure that IV injetions is off lable and can't be good.

Alan

 

[larryshoat]

Could be septicemia. Did you iodine the naval when he was born?

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index ... /51400.htm

Encephalitis is the most readily recognized form of listeriosis in ruminants. It affects all ages and both sexes, sometimes as an epidemic in feedlot cattle or sheep. The course in sheep and goats is rapid, and death may occur 24-48 hr after onset of signs; however, the recovery rate can be up to 30% with prompt, aggressive therapy. In cattle, the course is less acute, and the recovery rate approaches 50%. Lesions are localized in the brain stem, and the signs indicate dysfunction of the third to seventh cranial nerves.



Initially, affected animals are anorectic, depressed, and disoriented. They may propel themselves into corners, lean against stationary objects, or circle toward the affected side. Facial paralysis with a drooping ear, deviated muzzle, flaccid lip, and lowered eyelid often develops on the affected side, as well as lack of a menace response and profuse, almost continuous, salivation; food material often becomes impacted in the cheek due to paralysis of the masticatory muscles. Terminally affected animals fall and, unable to rise, lie on the same side; involuntary running movements are common.

Treatment and Control:
L monocytogenes is susceptible to penicillin (the drug of choice), ceftiofur, erythromycin, and trimethoprim/sulfonamide. High doses are required because of the difficulty in achieving minimum bactericidal concentrations in the brain. Recovery depends on early, aggressive antibiotic treatment. If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.


Treatment and Control:
L monocytogenes is susceptible to penicillin (the drug of choice), ceftiofur, erythromycin, and trimethoprim/sulfonamide. High doses are required because of the difficulty in achieving minimum bactericidal concentrations in the brain. Recovery depends on early, aggressive antibiotic treatment. If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.

If the calf had this disease he would have been dead a long time ago. This disease will kill a calf in a matter of a few hours .

Larry

 

[larryshoat]

I have a bottle of Procaine Penecillin G and in 10 minutes he will get one injection IM and an another one IV.
Marcel

IV pen injections will kill a horse, it's IM only, I don't know about cattle but I'm sure that IV injetions is off lable and can't be good.

Alan

You are correct about the pen. IV pen will kill the calf.

Larry

 

[hillsdown]

A calf with septicemia does not always die right away and usually symptoms due occur around the 5 to 7 days old from my experience.They can live for quite a few weeks especially if they are being treated.They will either die or recover.

If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.

I don't know why a well known Vet manual would say to treat with an IV of pen if it will kill the animal.

If you do a search on pen being given to calves through an IV I can't find where it says it will kill them.But the recommendation is always IM or Sub.Sulfadimethoxine Injection-40% Bovine Antibiotic is the only one I could find that is for IV use only.

Like I said ask a vet.Not to many people do their own IV work anymore.

 

[gendronf]

I have a bottle of Procaine Penecillin G and in 10 minutes he will get one injection IM and an another one IV.
Marcel

IV pen injections will kill a horse, it's IM only, I don't know about cattle but I'm sure that IV injetions is off lable and can't be good.

Alan

You are correct about the pen. IV pen will kill the calf.

Larry

Last night he got the IV injection of Pen, 7 cc, and he is not dead. ( For the first 15 minutes after the injection, he was'nt quite well. At one moment, I tought that he was going to the calf's heaven. Tonight, he still drunk, but not worst than yesterday.
Marcel

 

[hillsdown]

Marcel did you talk to your vet today?

 

[gendronf]

Marcel did you talk to your vet today?

I am just hanging the phone with my vet. He says that I am very lucky that my calf is alife. This pen is not for IV. The Merck vet manual did'nt specified the pen for IV, and my vet told me that about any vet would had know that it's a different pen for IV. He suggest me to give 4cc of Pen IM 2 time a day instead of only one shot and 3 cc of Vitamaster for 3 days. If the calf is'nt in a better shape in 4 days, I will send him to the calf"s heaven.
Marcel

 

[larryshoat]

A calf with septicemia does not always die right away and usually symptoms due occur around the 5 to 7 days old from my experience.They can live for quite a few weeks especially if they are being treated.They will either die or recover.

If signs of encephalitis are severe, death usually occurs despite treatment.
Penicillin G should be given at 44,000 U/kg body wt, IM, daily for 1-2 wk; the first injection should be accompanied by the same dose given IV. Supportive therapy, including fluids and electrolytes, is required for animals having difficulty eating and drinking.

I don't know why a well known Vet manual would say to treat with an IV of pen if it will kill the animal.

If you do a search on pen being given to calves through an IV I can't find where it says it will kill them.But the recommendation is always IM or Sub.Sulfadimethoxine Injection-40% Bovine Antibiotic is the only one I could find that is for IV use only.

Like I said ask a vet.Not to many people do their own IV work anymore.

I don't know why they would say that either.
I've never heard of a treatment that called for pen IV.The cases of brain infections that we have treated somewhat successfully we have used naxel,pen,and dexamethasone and there is a very small window of opportunity to do this.


Larry

 

[Alan]

I have a bottle of Procaine Penecillin G and in 10 minutes he will get one injection IM and an another one IV.
Marcel

IV pen injections will kill a horse, it's IM only, I don't know about cattle but I'm sure that IV injetions is off lable and can't be good.

Alan

You are correct about the pen. IV pen will kill the calf.

Larry

Last night he got the IV injection of Pen, 7 cc, and he is not dead. ( For the first 15 minutes after the injection, he was'nt quite well. At one moment, I tought that he was going to the calf's heaven. Tonight, he still drunk, but not worst than yesterday.
Marcel

Lets forget about what your vet said, lots of vets, lawyers, doctors, ect. that can get that all mighty piece of paper and not know what they are talking about. Lets go right to the manufacturer, does it say anywhere on the label to use pen IV? I would love for whoever said a well known manual said to use pen IV, to give me the whole link to using pen "G" or other type IM, what do they say about the risks involved. Plenty of IV antibiotics out there without taking a risk on pen IV. Again the key words is; " lots of anti biotics for use IV, rather than risking pen IV.

Just my 2 cents wanted or not.

Alan

 

[gendronf]

Larry and Alan, both of you and my vet and me too, says the samething. Pen G IV is a calf killer.

My vet suggested me to give him another shot of draxxin, with the other med. The calf walk around in the pen, seem a bit better. When he sees me, he is scare of the needles I think, this morning he was harder to catch. He does't walk in a strait line yet, but it's better.

What I did with this calf, teach me one thing. I do'nt have the knowledge to detect the mistakes in vet's books. I will refer to my vet more often.
Marcel

 

[Keren]

FWIW, I had a calf a few years ago who had quite a long drawn out birth. I think she was brain damaged due to lack of oxygen, and part of her symptoms was droopy ears (she's 100% bos taurus). She's now a pretty good cow in a commercial herd. Bit slow and dopey though.

 

[gendronf]

On november first, I send him to calf's heaven with a bullet. No improvement, Probably damage to the brain my vet told me.