Buying pairs to sell?

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cattlepower

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I talked with a man who buys quality pairs and then sells the cows & calves individually (after calves are weaned) for what he says is a decent profit. Anyone on here do this?
 

Bez+

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cattlepower":3uax2mq0 said:
I talked with a man who buys quality pairs and then sells the cows & calves individually (after calves are weaned) for what he says is a decent profit. Anyone on here do this?

Please define decent profit.

Bottom line is - this is a specialty game - not for triflers.

And if you look for the truth, I bet he will tell you he has lost a lot of money over the years as well.

You are asking lot of questions - not a bad thing - however - sounds to me like you do not know what you want to do - you appear to be shotgunning - a definte road to failure.

Perhaps a deeper and more introspective personal examination would be a good thing?

Land base, age, financial backing, experience, capability, funds required to live, funds required to run a business, family responsibility, acceptable risk, unacceptable risk and a thousand more things - all thoughts need to be centred around your final and ultimate goals.

You want advice perhaps you had better open up a bit as to the direction you want to head in - if you do not know yet - that is fine - but do not think for an instant this is an easy game and one sure fire way to lose money is to step into something you have to learn on the fly

Best to you

Bez+
 

bigbull338

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your wanting to enter into a very risky game of buying an selling.you better learn what cows have a good resale value.an know that if you cant sell them.that they are cows that you want in your own personal herd.i know guys that buy reg cows for resale when they can get them within reason.
 

mnmtranching

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This can be done, make a profit that is.
Got to have an eye for the right kind of cattle. [Lots involved here] overall health is #1.
Then, you got to put the pounds on, both the cow and calf. Meaning good inexpensive pasture and/or feed.
Very important! You have got to be a "cattleman" NO beginner is going to be able to do it and make a profit. Unless your very lucky.
By being a "cattleman" mean KNOW cattle, handle all problems that may arrise. "there will be problems" these pairs are at auction for a reason. And NO, you can't "call the Vet" for every health problem.
 

Bobaroni

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We are all at the mercy of the market my friend. I have been running a stocker op for a few years now. Its a sideline not a full time deal but I don't think anybody is making much profit these days. But I'm able to do a little better than break even. I don't really see that doing the cow calf split is gonna bring you any more profit than doing say a backgrounding or stocker operation. Shoot, to be honest unless something changes for the better it just doesn' look all that good. I have one aquaintenance that is going down to deep south Texas and buying a double decker load every month and marketing them in alternative ways and he is doing better than I am. That area has been in drought since 2002 and the poor guys just can't pay the feed bill and make anything at all. Its tough man! The EPA and the Obama administration are back on the methane tax for producers again this time its for anybody running more than 50 head of beef cattle or 25 head of dairy cattle that is the approximate number that would meet the 100 ton threshold for greenhouse gasses. Heres the worst part the taxing rate would come to $175/hd for dairy cattle and $87.50/hd for beef cattle. You should all contact your elected officials immediately and voice your concerns over this proposed tax. Cattlemen have always been price takers and not price makers. Our entire future is riding on this. I guess we will be getting all our milk and beef from China and Mexico. I can't stress enough GET INVOLVED! This all stems from the EPA's emminant likelihood to classify greenhouse gasses as a public health threat. From some other discussions I have been in this will require us to get a permit from EPA to operate and could also open the door for various litigations from people wanting to sue us for methane emissions from cattle or our equipment. Another proposal was squashed last year and now they have found a different avenue of attack on the farmer this just shows you how determined these folks are to put the rancher out of business. God only knows why!
 

cypressfarms

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This niche market strategy is not for the faint of heart. It would seem that it's as easy as buying the pair, letting the calf grow out some and then selling them seperately making a profit. NOPE. As mnmtranching stated, the pair is there for a reason or the owner would do the same thing. The only time I've seen people make decent money ($200+) is back about 5 years ago when the price was higher and, more importantly, the pairs were sold only because the owner didn't have enough grass.

If you can find pairs where you know the owner and the reason for selling you may have a chance. More likely, though, your buying someone else's problem while their taking the check to the bank. Just this past week a group of hereford cow pairs with braford calves sold at the local stockyard. They were 3 to 6 years old and bred back. The price was decent, but if something bad happens - your stuck with a 6 year old commercial hereford cow - which around here is not worth much.
 

backhoeboogie

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If you can buy low and sell high, you can make money.

Have you watched what happened to the stock market? People who bought high are selling low - and they don't have to feed those stocks.

Most of us don't sell our best stock when we run cattle to the sale barn. We are culling.

There are estates sold at the sale barn but that is all about timing. Inside knowledge helps too.

I personally don't have an eye for cattle - not like my grandaddy did. If you have an excellent eye, you might do okay. If you don't, you can lose your shirt.
 

cypressfarms

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backhoeboogie":3r4dptqh said:
I personally don't have an eye for cattle - not like my grandaddy did.

Backhoe, why is it that granddaddy, or dad in my case, always has a better eye? Lord knows I've studied everything he does - I even have a one up on my father in that I've taken many "classes" to help me use data; but if I had to bet with him and we both picked a heifer calf out, he'd pick the better cow everytime.
 

backhoeboogie

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cypressfarms":m68h93ze said:
backhoeboogie":m68h93ze said:
I personally don't have an eye for cattle - not like my grandaddy did.

Backhoe, why is it that granddaddy, or dad in my case, always has a better eye? Lord knows I've studied everything he does - I even have a one up on my father in that I've taken many "classes" to help me use data; but if I had to bet with him and we both picked a heifer calf out, he'd pick the better cow everytime.

Go figure. Grandaddy could look at a pen and spot the best one there and tell you any flaws any of the others had. They come through the ring and I am looking and looking, the bidding is almost over by the time I decide. I am sure the ring man hates me :D
 

TexasBred

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backhoeboogie":1vcmo9q5 said:
cypressfarms":1vcmo9q5 said:
backhoeboogie":1vcmo9q5 said:
I personally don't have an eye for cattle - not like my grandaddy did.

Backhoe, why is it that granddaddy, or dad in my case, always has a better eye? Lord knows I've studied everything he does - I even have a one up on my father in that I've taken many "classes" to help me use data; but if I had to bet with him and we both picked a heifer calf out, he'd pick the better cow everytime.

Go figure. Grandaddy could look at a pen and spot the best one there and tell you any flaws any of the others had. They come through the ring and I am looking and looking, the bidding is almost over by the time I decide. I am sure the ring man hates me :D

Boogie...got an old dairyman friend that is that way. A cow comes in the ring, he glances up and goes back to talking. Takes him just that long to analyse the cow and know if he is even interested in her. Even if he is it's hard to know if he's bidding or not. Slick ol' coot.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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You also need to know how to CARE for cattle. Cattle get sick, lame, pink-eye, etc.
Before you purchase any cattle, do you have facilities to confine them to give shots if needed?
If you are really wanting to get into cattle, I would suggest just buying stockers & let them put weight on and selling them when your pastures run out - but, I'm not saying you will make money - you SHOULD - BUT, we are dependent on the market.
 

Dave

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I do this every year and always make money. Better money than I would running stockers. I buy pairs and late term bred cows in the late winter/early spring. I generally turn cows out to grass around April 1 so I don't start buying until the very end of February to avoid having too much hay cost into them. I do have lots of cheap grass through the summer. You have to really watch your purchase price. I seem to do best on mid age to older cows (not ancient) that are thin but have a good frame. They need to have enough milk to raise a calf too. I look at what the cow will weigh in the fall and guess low on the weaning weight for the calf. The prices, like so many other things, will vary by region but it does work for me. Probably half the time I make more money per head on these cows than I do on my good cows that I keep year round, breed to good bulls, and wean bigger calves. The two key things is having good quality cheap grass and keep that purchase cost down. But don't get fooled in to paying less for cows by getting smaller cows. That cows weight in the fall is going to be as important as the calf.
 

mnmtranching

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Dave is right on, and there is potentially more money to be made off the cow calf. Like I said over all heath is number 1. And it's really pretty easy to pick out health. Yup, stay away from aged cows and bred heifers. Cows in medium flesh usually will work out the best, good forage is a must, the healthy cows will put on pounds. The time to sell cows is August and Sept before Fall rush. Sell the calves off the cows or back ground according to feed supplies and cost.
 

Dave

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I have less health issues with the cows/pairs than I do with any stockers I decide to raise. The one thing I do avoid is cows with real young (week or two) calves. Those real young calves are where I seem to run into the most health issues. I actually really like a cow that has bad lice issues that show up here about that time of the year. They will drag a cow down so she looks bad allowing me to buy her cheap. But it so easy to treat and a cow will rebound so fast. Those are always a good money maker for me.
 

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