Buying and feeding calves

[Brute 23]

Where is the money in buying calves? I don't see where the money is and think I have to be missing some thing.

People talk about buying calves to add on to theirs to make even groups. If I look at the prices at a local barn right now and just use averages for easy math, #550 bull, $2.50#, $1375.

If you hold them to Feb or March for spring prices it still only seems like a couple hundred dollars per head at best, after expenses.

Do you buy #400-450s? They look like they may be $100 cheaper or so buy probably require more to wean and would be a little light to go with ours.

 

[BC]

Brute, "still only seems like a couple hundred dollars per head at best" If the added calves make money that is a plus. when you add numbers to make a truckload lot, you made your home raised calves worth more than a partial load. You never go broke taking a profit.

 

[bird dog]

Buy lightweight # 1 1/2 or # 2 calves in the spring. Graze them all summer on your best pasture to add condition. and weight. Hopefully move them up the quality chain as they gain. It doesn't seem to work for me at any time of the year but the spring. Inputs costs can eat you alive if you are feeding them other than pasture.

 

[Brute 23]

Probably should have started with this and it is maybe the real question. Let me give some context.

If I have a property with nothing on it, knee high plus grass, I don't see how putting calves on it can generate more revenue then running cow/ calf pairs.

Even if you can run 3 to 1, calves to pairs, if the calves do you $200 a head, I don't see the calves beating the c/c operation with $1300-1500+ calves.

My brother and I made a deal to buy some heifers and steers from 2 people. We are going to clean them up and turn them out and see what prices look like in the spring on both. We are debating keeping the best heifers and putting bulls on them. I'm hoping to run molasses the whole time and just feed wcs once or twice a week in Jan and Feb. We can get hay cheap if need be.

We are discussing buying more calves to go with what is spoken for or, in the event we get a good offer on the heifers, just doing calves, again.

 

[kenny thomas]

You say your going to run molasses the whole time. Explain this please. Molasses is only 3% or so protein if i remember correctly. Its only used as a sweetener to encourage calves to eat the good stuff.

 

[Brute 23]

You say your going to run molasses the whole time. Explain this please. Molasses is only 3% or so protein if i remember correctly. Its only used as a sweetener to encourage calves to eat the good stuff.

Encourage them to eat the stockpiled grass. I'm sure with the size of the grass it's not exactly prime and will it only get lower in nutrition and less desirable as we go through winter.

 

[Lucky]

couple hundred dollars per head at best, after expenses

I'd say your figures are correct. It takes allot of calves to make a go of it. I know several guys that run $1-2 million worth of calves hoping to profit $75-100 a head.

 

[Lucky]

Even if you can run 3 to 1, calves to pairs, if the calves do you $200 a head, I don't see the calves beating the c/c operation with $1300-1500+ calves.

From what I see the yearling guys are looking at quick pay days without owning a bunch of mother cows that have big annual payments. These guys can borrow 100% of the money to buy and run the calves for 3-5 months. When they hit target weight they ship them to the sale and get a check for the difference. To me cow/calf is like owning your own business and stockers/yearlings is like having a day job in a sense. I also think market fluctuations don't affect the yearling guys as much, as long as you can buy and sell in the same market.

 

[kenny thomas]

Encourage them to eat the stockpiled grass. I'm sure with the size of the grass it's not exactly prime and will it only get lower in nutrition and less desirable as we go through winter.

I buy calves most of the year. Not a lot but some most weeks. My calves last week weighed 388 and cost 2.37. Been getting them less than $2.00 but these were better. I usually buy only #2 and some #3 calves.
It seems that the smaller calves dont do as good on grass as the bigger ones. I hand feed them 5lb per head per day but my grass is very good now.

 

[gcreekrch]

I buy calves most of the year. Not a lot but some most weeks. My calves last week weighed 388 and cost 2.37. Been getting them less than $2.00 but these were better. I usually buy only #2 and some #3 calves.
It seems that the smaller calves dont do as good on grass as the bigger ones. I hand feed them 5lb per head per day but my grass is very good now.

Right, in order for calves to grow they need a supplement, small pens so they don't run the weight off and buy cattle that you can add value to such as dehorning or castrating. Look into a salt limited self feeder. Going cheap on feed doesn't usually make money on feeder cattle. The days they aren't growing to potential cost you money.

 

[Lucky]

When we started keeping our calves for a longer time after weaning them a friend that has a preconditioning yard told me to expect .75 # growth per day on grass only. This was on a 650-700# calf. I thought 1.5# but he was right. We've actually seen 0# per day in late July and August here on long weaned calves. You really need to feed them if you want them to grow in our area.

The quote I got yesterday for a 4 way 14% mix was $265 a ton. I feel like if the calf market holds we can make a good profit with these lower feed cost.

 

[Brute 23]

I'd say your figures are correct. It takes allot of calves to make a go of it. I know several guys that run $1-2 million worth of calves hoping to profit $75-100 a head.

Two weekends ago I was up in central TX for a dove hunt and a guy next door was running a bunch of big calves. I was with his cousin and that's what it sounded like he did. He had a large group of big calves and had self feeders out. They said he gets a capital farm credit loan for like over a million and buys calves. He does day work and hires out for other things, also. Sounds real simular to what you are describing.

I drive past another place closer to home where the guy is buying big bull calves right now. They are #600 +/-. He is dumping them out on a big open pasture still with auction barn tags and all. Last year I watched him do it for a while then they worked them all and cleaned them up.

 

[Brute 23]

That was my thinking behind the larger calves. I was trying to avoid keeping then penned up and an intense feeding program as the place is about an hour away.

The plan is to get that wcs feeder I talked about. We take momma cows with calves through the "winter" on like #10 per head per week. If Im doing this right at $200/ thousand, that's $2 per week, per head, for 12 weeks (Dec, Jan, Feb)... that pretty low cost if it will work.

We do have a small group of #600+ calves on it now and they have been doing good. I would say they are doing some thing like what lucky said at #1 or less. Not getting real fat but are nice and filled out and and just growing.

I go once a week and give them a little wcs in a trap so I know I can catch them eventually.

 

[Lucky]

Yearling operations are really interesting to me. We know guys on both sides when it comes to grazing calves. Some of these guys buy X# of calves and ship them to a guy that grazes and cares for them on the gain. The man caring for them processes them when they come in then cares for them for a set amount per pound of gain. Any meds or feed used gets billed to the owner. This guy makes say $50 a head and isn't out any real money. The owner of said calves hopes to make $50 a head also but all he does is take the money risk and make a few phone calls. He probably never sees the calves. Not sure which end of this deal I'd rather be on.

 

[GoWyo]

Yearling operations are really interesting to me. We know guys on both sides when it comes to grazing calves. Some of these guys buy X# of calves and ship them to a guy that grazes and cares for them on the gain. The man caring for them processes them when they come in then cares for them for a set amount per pound of gain. Any meds or feed used gets billed to the owner. This guy makes say $50 a head and isn't out any real money. The owner of said calves hopes to make $50 a head also but all he does is take the money risk and make a few phone calls. He probably never sees the calves. Not sure which end of this deal I'd rather be on.

You do not want to be the owner when the market bottom falls out of them without a hedge in place.

 

[Lucky]

You do not want to be the owner when the market bottom falls out of them without a hedge in place.

Very true. From what I understand most guys buy the cattle with a contract in place. They basically have them sold before they're bought. You still have to be a good operator and control your death loss. The weather is the bigest factor, you can't make it rain. Definitely lots of guys go broke playing the yearling game.

 

[Dave]

I have bought calves with 4 different plans which all worked at that point in the market.

A. Bought calves that matched up with my calves at weaning time. Weaned and made up enough for a pot load to haul to a better selling market.
B. Bought calves in the low point in the market (late October) held them over the winter and sold just as spring grass was coming on.
C. Same as B except held them on grass until mid August to gain but sell before lots of yearlings hit the market.
D. Actually the same as C except bought #1 heifers, had them spayed.

I have thought about buying #1 heifers calves in the fall to breed in the spring and sell in the fall. So far the market hasn't been right to do this.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I'd say your figures are correct. It takes allot of calves to make a go of it. I know several guys that run $1-2 million worth of calves hoping to profit $75-100 a head.

Awh but there's profit in scale.
I love this story;
I was talking to a neighbor. He and his brother rented every empty hog building they could get their hands on for three states.
We were talking about profit margins and Doug said that all he needed to do was clear $1 per pig and feed a million pigs a year.

 

[BFE]

I've played it on a smaller scale, bought enough to finish out trailer loads to haul to special feeder calf sales two hours away. They have a vac and wean time protocol. If I can buy bawling unworked calves that match mine, I can add enough value that it makes it worth the effort. A bonus is if I can get them under market. This consists of a 1 to 1 1/2 hour drive to buy 5-10 calves at a time from smaller producers than me who don't have a yard in their back door. A bit of a hassle at times, but I figure on what a days wage is working my contracting work, if I can make a good deal more than that by doing something I like better it's a win-win.

 

[Brute 23]

I've played it on a smaller scale, bought enough to finish out trailer loads to haul to special feeder calf sales two hours away. They have a vac and wean time protocol. If I can buy bawling unworked calves that match mine, I can add enough value that it makes it worth the effort. A bonus is if I can get them under market. This consists of a 1 to 1 1/2 hour drive to buy 5-10 calves at a time from smaller producers than me who don't have a yard in their back door. A bit of a hassle at times, but I figure on what a days wage is working my contracting work, if I can make a good deal more than that by doing something I like better it's a win-win.

This was my plan. I was going to put the word out and get on FB pages and offer to buy calves straight off the farm in a little radious of us. I thought a lot of smaller producers would like not having to haul them and saving on commission. That could be hundreds of dollars. No luck so far. Too many people would rather hook their trailer up to their F250, put on their hat, and drive to town to with 5 calves.

I don't really blame them because they didn't really understand and my system for weighing them was kind of rough. I offered a couple people very good prices just trying to get some momentum. They missed out as it was in their favor a lot more than ours.