Buying a new baler JD or New Holland

[Suzie Q]

It might be how fast the baler can pick up as well. We sold an old New Holland and bought a new Lely Welger. It picks up much much much much much faster. I haven't timed how long for it to wrap and dump, but approx a couple of hours to do over 100 bales, but that was not with steady windrows. It was from very high where the water only passed over to hardly anything where the water sat for a while.

 

[shadyhollownj]

Finally made it out to the vermeer dealer today. I checked out the tedder im buying and the balers. I looked at the rebel and the 604m classic. I wasnt that impressed with the rebel as I was the m series. The rebel had smaller belts and a big gap between belts which I didnt like. I was super impressed with the salesman who is also the owner. He showed me everything on the balers and pointed out all the differences. He still thinks that the rebel will be more than sufficient for the 200-300 bales we do a year. I think im gonna go with the m series since its only 3,000 more. I am gonna head over to the new holland dealer tomorrow and see if he even gives me a sales pitch. I doubt it based on previous experiences. I gotta say the vermeer guy has me pretty sold after the two hours he spent with me today.

 

[TSR]

Finally made it out to the vermeer dealer today. I checked out the tedder im buying and the balers. I looked at the rebel and the 604m classic. I wasnt that impressed with the rebel as I was the m series. The rebel had smaller belts and a big gap between belts which I didnt like. I was super impressed with the salesman who is also the owner. He showed me everything on the balers and pointed out all the differences. He still thinks that the rebel will be more than sufficient for the 200-300 bales we do a year. I think im gonna go with the m series since its only 3,000 more. I am gonna head over to the new holland dealer tomorrow and see if he even gives me a sales pitch. I doubt it based on previous experiences. I gotta say the vermeer guy has me pretty sold after the two hours he spent with me today.

Just a couple of thoughts. There is no substitute for horsepower,don't skimp on it when getting your tractor,especially if you are in the hills cutting and baling. I have a friend that bought a new New Holland baler and after one yr $1800 worth of bearings/labor he said the dealer wouldn't cover. I prefer the JDeere baler. I bought a like-new Rebel wheel rake and used it about 3 days. I traded it for a Kuhn,no comparison, the Kuhn is far superior. Good luck.

 

[Angus Cowman]

Just a couple of thoughts. There is no substitute for horsepower,don't skimp on it when getting your tractor,especially if you are in the hills cutting and baling. I have a friend that bought a new New Holland baler and after one yr $1800 worth of bearings/labor he said the dealer wouldn't cover. I prefer the JDeere baler. I bought a like-new Rebel wheel rake and used it about 3 days. I traded it for a Kuhn,no comparison, the Kuhn is far superior. Good luck.

That sounds odd I have never had a bearing failure in a NH baler
sounds like maybe your friend don't know what a grease gun is
either that or he power washed it and didn't dry it out and let water sit in the bearings afterwards and they seized

 

[robert]

most all the bearings on the NH are sealed (ie no zerks) from time to time they do fail, just gotta be tuned into the sounds of the baler so when you hear something 'squeak' you check it out.

 

[Angus Cowman]

most all the bearings on the NH are sealed (ie no zerks) from time to time they do fail, just gotta be tuned into the sounds of the baler so when you hear something 'squeak' you check it out.

you must be running an older NH because when they went to the BR series about 6 or 7 yrs ago they went to greasable bearings
I have ran NHs for the last 10 yrs and yes the older 6 series balers had sealed bearing but almost all of the bearings on the Newer models are greaseable

 

[OklaBrangusBreeder]

ShadyHollow, my thoughts.

I bought a JD 5093E in June '09. I paid $41,000 with cab and loader and MFWD. It is a 93HP model, and I have been thrilled with the purchase. If all you are looking for is a tractor for baling hay, it is more than enough. I use it to pull a JD 467 net wrap baler and it does great. If I were deciding between the E series with a cab or a higher priced JD model, no way would I give up the cab of the E series for a tractor without a cab for the same money.

I think the whole "weight" argument with regard to the different JD models is only relevant if you are using it for tillage work. If you are in a hay field, I don't see any benefit at all for a heavier tractor. All it will do is use more diesel to do the same work.

I've had two John Deere round balers over the years including my current JD 467 Megawide net wrap model. I've been happy with both of them. If I were buying a new one today, I'd stick with John Deere.

 

[shadyhollownj]

so I've made up my mind on the tractor. Going to sign the papers on the JD 5095m. I am not a big fan of cabs for a few reasons. If I had several tractors and was in it all day on big fields I would definitely have a cab. I dont really like the lack of visibility and hearing with a cab. Now I know they have good visibility before everyone kills me but in tight situations around cattle or pulling logs out of the woods I prefer the open station. The problem is I want the deluxe open with the canopy but the wife doesnt because it will ruin her tanning on the tractor. If thats all I had to worry about life would be great.

As far as the new holland I went to the dealer two days ago. I didn't really get much of a sales pitch as expected. I did like the endless belts and the warranty on the belts. But then heres the kicker. The endless belts are a complete pain in the ass to replace and he said most guys put on a spider joint belt to avoid taking apart the rollers. Well thats just great. Also it looks like the new holland has a lot more to it as far as chains and wiring. All that means to me is more of a pain to fix. So the dealer must have said that he is here for me four times at least for service since hes only ten minutes away and the vermeer dealer is an hour. Just because you are close doesnt mean you get the sale automatically. Is it to much to ask for a sales pitch on a product nowadays ? The real kicker is the regional guy was there and was as useful as tits on a bull. I told him it was between a NH and a VERMEER. He did nothing to try to promote his product and pretty much told me that I had to make a decision in a week otherwise he wasnt gonna be able to give me good financing. He stayed outside for 5 minutes and then went in and ate lunch. That just turns me off because if I buy his product and have a serious problem I have to deal with an idiot for a resolution. So I'm still up in the air on the baler but I am leaning towards the vermeer 504 m classic because of the dealers.

 

[kenny thomas]

As I told you I bought an M series Vermeer a couple of weeks ago. The dealers are great, ask me where I wanted it and a rake delivered and told me that they would pick up the baler and rake I traded in. I just wrote the check and left. They will be in the barn sometime before haying time.

 

[Angus Cowman]

No matter what brand you buy having a good dealer is worth alot

as for the chains and belts being a maintenance problem on a NH they are NOT a problem
I change the chains about every 8-10,000 bales and I have NEVER changed or broke a belt on a NH
as for people replacing the endless belts on a sileage baler with spliced belts I would say your SALESMAN didn't know what he was talking about
One reason a NH doesn't have a wear issue on the belts is they don't carry the weight of the bale on the belts that is what the rollers are for so therefore they have less problems with belt stretch than a JD or a Vermeer

goodluck

 

[shadyhollownj]

Thanks for the clearing up angus. As far as the chains it will take me a lifetime to get to 10,000. I guess I am just used to buying new stuff and it breaking right away since no one knows how to make a quality product anymore. If the vermeer dealer didnt sell me and seem like such a nice guy I would go with a new holland. Now I think the dealers are playing more than the actual machine. I still think the vermeer will be fine for my 200 bales a year. The fact that its 4,000 less does make me lean toward the vermeer also. I dont think I can go wrong with either. Thanks kenny the fact that you are friends with the dealer im sure made your decision easier. Although dealing with friends usually doesnt work out for me.

 

[kenny thomas]

[ Thanks kenny the fact that you are friends with the dealer im sure made your decision easier. Although dealing with friends usually doesnt work out for me.[/quote]
Friends catch more he$$ than anyone from me. Just ask Angus Cowman. :nod: :lol2:

 

[Angus Cowman]

[ Thanks kenny the fact that you are friends with the dealer im sure made your decision easier. Although dealing with friends usually doesnt work out for me.

Friends catch more he$$ than anyone from me. Just ask Angus Cowman. :nod: :lol2:[/quote]
I think the reason KT bought one of them yellar balers was he copuldn't pull good red or green one would go with his off colored(orange) tractor :lol: :lol: :cowboy:

 

[robert]

most all the bearings on the NH are sealed (ie no zerks) from time to time they do fail, just gotta be tuned into the sounds of the baler so when you hear something 'squeak' you check it out.

you must be running an older NH because when they went to the BR series about 6 or 7 yrs ago they went to greasable bearings
I have ran NHs for the last 10 yrs and yes the older 6 series balers had sealed bearing but almost all of the bearings on the Newer models are greaseable

yep a 644, another reason not to buy newer!

 

[EAT BEEF]

I baled over a 1,000 bales a year with a 1850 oliver and a 430 deere baler for several years had about
$9,000 in the pair. When I sold them I lost about $1,500 bucks. Not really trying to tell you what to do,but you could buy some pretty nice stuff that you won't lose much money on for about a third of that.

 

[Angus Cowman]

most all the bearings on the NH are sealed (ie no zerks) from time to time they do fail, just gotta be tuned into the sounds of the baler so when you hear something 'squeak' you check it out.

you must be running an older NH because when they went to the BR series about 6 or 7 yrs ago they went to greasable bearings
I have ran NHs for the last 10 yrs and yes the older 6 series balers had sealed bearing but almost all of the bearings on the Newer models are greaseable

yep a 644, another reason not to buy newer!

what is another reason not to buy a newer one?

 

[robert]

the sealed bearing, they are for the most part durable and maintenence free, an NH baler is basically bearings and belts anyway, replaced a few sprockets and chains over time, but with 24000+ bales on it not a surprise, if I could find a burned up 644 or 648 with a wide pick up in decent shape that is one thing I would replace on mine, the original owner had used an acid application and it ate all the paint off of the pickup reel.

 

[Angus Cowman]

the sealed bearing, they are for the most part durable and maintenence free, an NH baler is basically bearings and belts anyway, replaced a few sprockets and chains over time, but with 24000+ bales on it not a surprise, if I could find a burned up 644 or 648 with a wide pick up in decent shape that is one thing I would replace on mine, the original owner had used an acid application and it ate all the paint off of the pickup reel.

one of the reason NH went to greasable bearing on alot of them is because when the sealed bearing went out on the top roller it would usually ruin the roller frame also and they had several complaints of this happening and it was quite expensive
I prefer the greasable bearings over the sealed because I know they are greased
I ran the 6 series balers for yrs and I like the newer greasable bearings in my newer balers better

 

[robert]

the sealed bearing, they are for the most part durable and maintenence free, an NH baler is basically bearings and belts anyway, replaced a few sprockets and chains over time, but with 24000+ bales on it not a surprise, if I could find a burned up 644 or 648 with a wide pick up in decent shape that is one thing I would replace on mine, the original owner had used an acid application and it ate all the paint off of the pickup reel.

one of the reason NH went to greasable bearing on alot of them is because when the sealed bearing went out on the top roller it would usually ruin the roller frame also and they had several complaints of this happening and it was quite expensive I prefer the greasable bearings over the sealed because I know they are greased
I ran the 6 series balers for yrs and I like the newer greasable bearings in my newer balers better

ya got a good point there, 2 yrs ago at the tail end of the season my neighbor borrowed the baler and ignored the grinding, squeeking noise coming from the top roller until flames appeared from the rubber coating melting and catching fire, got the fire out and left me to fix it, tried the cheap fix of a new bearing but I think the shaft at the end got bent and it ate that bearing in about 400 bales, ended up putting new roller, bearings and bearing housing on, about $900 all told. Replaced the belts with new endless ones at the same time, another $1200 but well worth it, starts faster, makes a neater bale and good for the next 10,000!

 

[shadyhollownj]

Ok so im still up in the air on the baler. Shocker. I dont know if im going new since two dealers near me have a 644 and 648 for around 11,000. Heres the pickle. My vermeer dealer called me touch base today. He said vermeer has a program to get rid of some stock of a discontinued 10 wheel rakes. He said if I buy the 504 m classic, 4 basket tedder which i'm getting no matter what, they will throw in the wheel rake for FREE. He said they retail for 4,000 but guys are trying to get rid of some stock for 3,000 but now vermeer is gonna give them away with a new baler purchase. Now that is something to think about. My question is I have never seen anyone use a wheel rake in jersey other than on straw. We raise timothy/orchard mix, some kings agriseed haymaster which has alfalfa and some fields mixed with freedom red clover. Does the wheel rake twist the hay like a side delivery or does it knock excess leaves off the clover or alfalfa. I actually just gave an amish fellow a deposit on an old kuhn gt300 ( I think thats the model) a ten foot rotary rake. He is fixing it up and painting it.

m504 classic net wrap bale ramp 24,800
4 basket tedder hyd lift and tilt 7,900
10 wheel rake hyd lift Free retail 4,000