buying a bull.....

[Anonymous]

I have 5 cows I want to breed that I bought in January of 2004. They are 4-6 yrs old, 4 have 4 mo old calves at side. The guy who was going to let me borrow his bull tried but couldnt get his bull loaded up in his stock trailer to bring him to my place. I dont know of anyone else who has a bull I could rent or borrow, and not wanting to let anymore time go by without breeding them, I have decided to go and buy my own bull! I am looking for a black or red angus bull and have circled about 7-8 in my local paper for sale in my area. Any advice you folks can give me would be appreciated, such as what to look for, what not to see on the bull, questions to ask the seller. What is the minimum age I should consider for a bull? I want him to get down to business ASAP! Would a young bull be intimidated by my large cows? They are angus/crossed cows and I am wanting to stay with the angus line. The local prices are anywhere from $850 for a 16 mo old bull to $3000 for a registered black angus. I am really wanting to get in for around $1000-$1200 if possible.

So what should a first timer look for in a bull and what questions should I ask? Any way of looking at a bull and knowing how good of a breeder he might be?

 

[A. delaGarza]

I have 5 cows I want to breed that I bought in January of 2004. They are 4-6 yrs old, 4 have 4 mo old calves at side. The guy who was going to let me borrow his bull tried but couldnt get his bull loaded up in his stock trailer to bring him to my place. I dont know of anyone else who has a bull I could rent or borrow, and not wanting to let anymore time go by without breeding them, I have decided to go and buy my own bull! I am looking for a black or red angus bull and have circled about 7-8 in my local paper for sale in my area. Any advice you folks can give me would be appreciated, such as what to look for, what not to see on the bull, questions to ask the seller. What is the minimum age I should consider for a bull? I want him to get down to business ASAP! Would a young bull be intimidated by my large cows? They are angus/crossed cows and I am wanting to stay with the angus line. The local prices are anywhere from $850 for a 16 mo old bull to $3000 for a registered black angus. I am really wanting to get in for around $1000-$1200 if possible.

So what should a first timer look for in a bull and what questions should I ask? Any way of looking at a bull and knowing how good of a breeder he might be?

if ytou are looking for a Red Angus, Neo-Sho farms are having their sale tomorrow if you live nearby you can have a look. http://www.neo-shofarms.com

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

I would look for a quality bull around 18 to 24 months old minimum that had very good conformation and genetics. Clean underside and a straight topine with definite bull face/head. Make sure he is semen tested and get copy of the semen report. Temperament is very important, regardless of the breed. Any bull that gives trouble on loading, etc., may be an attitude problem. Cows generally tend to rule that pasture; however, when they are in heat, they let the bull breed (some rare exceptions). Your bull is a minimum of 50% of the quality of your calves...use the very best bull your can (buy or lease; or, use semen from top bull and A.I.).

Good luck!
Bill

 

[Anonymous]

I was kinda wondering about the testing aspect. Would most small time cattlemen have their bull semen tested? I dont know of any of my neighbors who can provide the EPD's on their cattle, most are like me and only have a few cattle and just sell at the sale barn a couple times a yr or so. Isnt it mostly large breeders and very expensive bulls that get tested so the seller can justify the higher prices and guarantee the quality of the bull for the buyer? I really don't expect the seller to have a semen test on a $1000-$1500 dollar bull!

 

[la4angus]

Have you considered AI. You can breed to the best bulls of the breed for $15.00 to $35.00 per head plus insimination fees. Pick 5 different bulls if you need to with the traits that you need to improve on each cow.

 

[A. delaGarza]

Have you considered AI. You can breed to the best bulls of the breed for $15.00 to $35.00 per head plus insimination fees. Pick 5 different bulls if you need to with the traits that you need to improve on each cow.

that's the best advise, check, ask your vet that you want to A.I. your cows and than go and take a look on the Red Angus semen of Neo-Sho Farm if you are looking for reds

 

[la4angus]

I would talk to an AI tech. They normally know more about what is available and can give better advice than most vets, plus will in my experience, will normally do a better job of AI'ing than most vets.

 

[WORANCH]

if you buy a bull have him tested . but for 5 cows i would AI.

 

[Anonymous]

AI'ing seems to be alot more work for someone like me. I have a full time 50 hr a week job, and I wouldnt be around to know exactly when they come in heat, know when to call the tech in 12 hrs later, and stay and be there for the tech when he gets here. One cow seems difficult enough, 5 cows seems like a full time evaluation of the breeding cycles. It seems easier to let the bull run with them for a few months, and then either put him in a smaller pasture or maybe just let him run with the cows full time. Am I missing something on the AI'ing? For you full time guys who are around your cows most of the day, I can see AI'ing, but I dont feel near comfortable enough to know the precise cycling time for these cows. The money isnt that big of a deal so that is why I was considering buying a bull, and letting mother nature run its course!

 

[Anonymous]

Just curious, any idea what the AI tech charge is on average to come out and insert semen? I know the straws are anywhere from $10-$30 a pop, and does each cow take one straw on average, or are several straws needed to insure results? Thanks!

 

[A. delaGarza]

AI'ing seems to be alot more work for someone like me. I have a full time 50 hr a week job, and I wouldnt be around to know exactly when they come in heat, know when to call the tech in 12 hrs later, and stay and be there for the tech when he gets here. One cow seems difficult enough, 5 cows seems like a full time evaluation of the breeding cycles. It seems easier to let the bull run with them for a few months, and then either put him in a smaller pasture or maybe just let him run with the cows full time. Am I missing something on the AI'ing? For you full time guys who are around your cows most of the day, I can see AI'ing, but I dont feel near comfortable enough to know the precise cycling time for these cows. The money isnt that big of a deal so that is why I was considering buying a bull, and letting mother nature run its course!

just buy the Bull if money is not the problem, the new "cowboy generation", Hobby Cattleman

 

[Anonymous]

just buy the Bull if money is not the problem, the new "cowboy generation", Hobby Cattleman[/quote]


Hmmm, is that a problem? Is this forum only for full time cattlemen, or can anyone come in here and ask for advice?

 

[Arancher]

You say the cows have 4 month old calves at their sidde. If they were with a bull where you got them you might not need to be in a hurry. the sellers bull may have already took care of it for the time being.

 

[A. delaGarza]

you just gave your answer, you don't have the time to A.I. so just buy the Bull, our advise was that it will be preferable if you A.I. , maybe you could buy another cow for $600 and spend the rest in the A.I.

 

[Anonymous]

no sir, the calves were only 4- 6 weeks old when I bought the cows. they are now 4 mos old. The calves were born in the 2nd-3rd week of December, I bought the cows in the middle of Jan.

 

[la4angus]

AI'ing seems to be alot more work for someone like me. I have a full time 50 hr a week job, and I wouldnt be around to know exactly when they come in heat, know when to call the tech in 12 hrs later, and stay and be there for the tech when he gets here. One cow seems difficult enough, 5 cows seems like a full time evaluation of the breeding cycles. It seems easier to let the bull run with them for a few months, and then either put him in a smaller pasture or maybe just let him run with the cows full time. Am I missing something on the AI'ing? For you full time guys who are around your cows most of the day, I can see AI'ing, but I dont feel near comfortable enough to know the precise cycling time for these cows. The money isnt that big of a deal so that is why I was considering buying a bull, and letting mother nature run its course!

Have an AI tech sync them so they will all be bred the same day on a timed schedule. You do not have to heat check them that away. I know people that has gotten 80% to 100% conception on first service.

 

[A. delaGarza]

and at least I ain't a full time cattleman, I have other bussiness to take care too

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks L4, but honestly since I dont know anything about AI'ing whatsoever, and noone I know does either, where would I find a AI tech? We only have one vet near me who sees large animals, and I know he doesnt do AI'ing. Any idea what the average cost of the procedure would be? Are we talking several hundred dollars here, and also does the tech supply the semen, or would I have to buy my own nitrogen tank to have the straws shipped to me? I dont have any problem at all paying a tech to take care of everything for me, I just dont know where to find a tech.

 

[la4angus]

Just curious, any idea what the AI tech charge is on average to come out and insert semen? I know the straws are anywhere from $10-$30 a pop, and does each cow take one straw on average, or are several straws needed to insure results? Thanks!

One straw per service which would be one heat cycle.

 

[la4angus]

You say the cows have 4 month old calves at their sidde. If they were with a bull where you got them you might not need to be in a hurry. the sellers bull may have already took care of it for the time being.

If that is a consideration have them preg checked.