Bundy Accountable for Standoff

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Chuckie

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/06/cliven-bundy-standoff_n_5561863.html

RENO, Nev. (AP) — U.S. Bureau of Land Management officials say they agree with a Nevada sheriff's position that rancher Cliven Bundy must be held accountable for his role in an April standoff between his supporters and the federal agency.

Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie said Bundy crossed the line when he allowed states' rights supporters, including self-proclaimed militia members, onto his property to aim guns at police.

"If you step over that line, there are consequences to those actions," Gillespie told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. "And I believe they stepped over that line. No doubt about it. They need to be held accountable for it."

Bureau spokeswoman Celia Boddington, in a statement released Saturday to The Associated Press, said the agency continues to pursue the matter "aggressively through the legal system."

"There is an ongoing investigation and we are working diligently to ensure that those who broke the law are held accountable," she said, declining to elaborate.

The FBI declined comment Saturday on its investigation. Bundy did not respond to a request for comment.

The Bureau of Land Management says Bundy owes over $1 million in fees and penalties for trespassing on federal property without a permit over 20 years. Bundy, who says his ancestors have operated a ranch in the area since the late 1800s, refuses to acknowledge federal authority on public lands.


A federal judge in Las Vegas first ordered Bundy in 1998 to remove "trespass cattle" from land the bureau declared a refuge for the endangered desert tortoise. Bureau officials obtained court orders last year allowing the roundup.

Boddington disputed Gillespie's contention the agency mishandled the roundup of Bundy's cattle 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

The bureau backed down during the showdown with Bundy and his armed supporters, citing safety concerns, and released some 380 Bundy cattle collected during a weeklong operation from a vast arid range half the size of the state of Delaware.

Gillespie blamed the bureau for escalating the conflict and ignoring his advice to delay the roundup after he had a confrontational meeting with Bundy's children a few weeks before it began.

"I came back from that saying, 'This is not the time to do this,' " the sheriff told the Review-Journal. "They said, 'We do this all the time. We know what we're doing. We hear what you're saying, but we're moving forward.'"

Tensions further escalated early in the roundup after a video showed one of Bundy's sons being stunned with a Taser. The video drew militia members and others to Bundy's ranch.

Bundy was not a hardened criminal, Gillespie told the newspaper. He was a rancher who stopped paying his fees, the sheriff said, and that was not worth risking violence.

But Boddington said the bureau planned and conducted the roundup in "full coordination" with Gillespie and his office.

"It is unfortunate that the sheriff is now attempting to rewrite the details of what occurred, including his claims that the BLM did not share accurate information," she said. "The sheriff encouraged the operation and promised to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us as we enforced two recent federal court orders."

"Sadly, he backed out of his commitment shortly before the operation — and after months of joint planning — leaving the BLM and the National Park Service to handle the crowd control that the sheriff previously committed to handling," she added.
 

greybeard

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BLM is desperate to shift blame from itself to the Sheriff's Dept.
Pretty typical of any federal entity.
 

Bigfoot

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Bundy was probably discussed during my hiatus. I thought he was well with in his rights to stay. I wondered when they would get around to punishing him for making a stand. You can't have a red blooded American standing up for his rights. That wouldn't be proper. It might get our country off of its current course.
 

Jogeephus

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Seems to me they need to be worrying about bigger things like the tidal wave of illegals coming into Texas rather than a few cows that aren't harming anything.

What about the desert turtle? How is it doing? Anyone heard? I care. :lol:
 

greybeard

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Jogeephus":im24brgb said:
Seems to me they need to be worrying about bigger things like the tidal wave of illegals coming into Texas rather than a few cows that aren't harming anything.

What about the desert turtle? How is it doing? Anyone heard? I care. :lol:

It was a yummy 4th July bbq treat, but a stinking nasty mess to clean out of the shell.
(do those critters EVER bathe?)
 

backhoeboogie

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Jogeephus":krobtmro said:
What about the desert turtle? How is it doing? Anyone heard? I care. :lol:

I want to know how they survived the buffalo all those decades without tree hugger intervention.
 

TexasBred

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Jogeephus":220am43m said:
Seems to me they need to be worrying about bigger things like the tidal wave of illegals coming into Texas rather than a few cows that aren't harming anything.

What about the desert turtle? How is it doing? Anyone heard? I care. :lol:
I think he's staying hid...got that jumping desert mouse bringing his meals to him. :shock:
 

Chuckie

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The government is showing the US citizens that they cannot rise against them. They will come at us with everything they have, and they intend to scare the people of the US. So do not think about standing up for anything that you believe in. They are showing that if you have guns, that they have more. Your guns mean nothing and they have bigger guns as we are not allowed to own what they have. I think it is more to show the government is in control of the people just as it is in Russia. This is what we are afraid of and that is why the constitution was wrote. Obama is erasing it all. "We The People" is what they are tearing down. This has been a perfect example.
 

Commercialfarmer

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I heard the guy is a racist and doesn't believe in giving the poor free weed. I also heard that he believes in outrageous things like ability to peacefully assemble and to speak freely. His anarchist son carries around archaic documents claiming ridiculous things like that they have relevance today.

The whole mess could have been avoided if England had just given the colonial people access to free birth control.

Long live the BLM!

Anyway, I hope everyone had a great Fireworks Holiday. I'm glad that the government gave the people this holiday to celebrate fireworks and eat watermelon, plus gave them the day off. If you enjoyed the holiday be sure and send them a thank you.
 

farmguy

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So if I don't like a law I can ignore the law? The heck with a democracy and everyone decide for themselves what they can do and get a gun and force my will on others. Kinda sounds like another part of the world. By the way I am a veteran and my grandkids all love to PLAY soldier but when they grow they get real and either enter the military or stop playing soldier. Is this a land of law or not? By the way please no more E mails. As of yet this is still a democracy.
 

Shanghai

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So it's ok for crooked politicians to force 52 ranchers off their allotments via the ESA thus giving up their water rights(Nevada water laws) so they can get rich(er) selling the water(IMO water/money is what it's really about)


This is just the beginning on the whole water deal, but I digress
 

Shanghai

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farmguy":3668273z said:
Who owns the land and who rents the lands? Also you did not answer my comments.

Ownership of the land is a tricky question, but the US government/US citizens own the land
If you are referring to the ignoring the law question. What law did Bundy break ?
 

Bigfoot

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farmguy":921emvli said:
Who owns the land and who rents the lands? Also you did not answer my comments.

It's a water rights issue to begin with, not a land issue. The gov is twisting it all around.
 

Shanghai

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We've been through this so I'll just give a quick run down of what I understand of the case

Bundy's own the water rights dating back to when you own the water, you also have grazing rights that
numbers equal to the amount of the water.( if you can water a 100 head, you have grazing rights for 100 head)
Nevada water laws from back then are somewhat tricky and it seems to be there was some dirty dealing in the past, but basically your water rights are "use it or lose it "

He argues he has ownership of the water rights and thus giving him grazing rights
The BLM was created to help the rancher and see to it the land wasn't abused, and help manage the land. It was funded by the ranchers by a per head fee for their help and services and it was never a grazing lease
Bundy claims they began to work against the ranchers instead of the original intent to help the ranchers, so he fired them.


The BLM cut the grazing allotments as much as 90% on some of the 52 ranchers making it not financially viable to ranch and we're bought for very little.(using the ESA)
Bundy fought back and refused to reduce his numbers
He never had a lease agreement with the BLM, They wouldn't accept his numbers and he wouldn't accept theirs so nothing was ever paid.
He lost in court twice and agreed he owed for the past years grazing, but they jacked the priced up with interest and penalties to over a million dollars.
 

farmguy

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The govt owns the land correct. It is up to the govt as our reps to decide what to do with the land. We the people elect our leaders. I cannot believe you are asking if a law was broken. For one 20 years of unpaid rent after paying rent, ignoring numerous orders to remove livestock, repeated court decisions and recognizing the federal govt for years. I am well aware of a person's desire to continue a way of life and I also realize that many have paid money to another and borrowed money for a grazing permit but that does not change the fact that the ALL the American people own the land. And the desires of the majority may not be the desires of the present renter.

In response to recent comments read the Taylor grazing act and the fact that Mr. Bundy lost twice in court says it all. Thank you
 

Bigfoot

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farmguy":21dnejo9 said:
The govt owns the land correct. It is up to the govt as our reps to decide what to do with the land. We the people elect our leaders. I cannot believe you are asking if a law was broken. For one 20 years of unpaid rent after paying rent, ignoring numerous orders to remove livestock, repeated court decisions and recognizing the federal govt for years. I am well aware of a person's desire to continue a way of life and I also realize that many have paid money to another and borrowed money for a grazing permit but that does not change the fact that the ALL the American people own the land. And the desires of the majority may not be the desires of the present renter.

In response to recent comments read the Taylor grazing act and the fact that Mr. Bundy lost twice in court says it all. Thank you

The land is not the question, it's the water he owned a right to. He was just the last man standing.
 

Red Bull Breeder

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Mr farm feller if you check the constitution the fed broke the law by claiming ownership to the land in question to start with. That worthless old piece of paper lays out exactly how much land the Federal Government can own in each state. It sure as hell is not 80% of the total land in a state unless the state is less than 10 square miles in size. As a veteran I would have thought you would have sworn a oath to uphold and defend that worthless old piece of paper.
 

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