Bulls...to buy or not to buy...

[Dana Kopp]

I am in the market for a new heifer bull. My last one threw 90-100+lb calves, just a little bigger than I had expected/wanted. So I have been looking at a variety of bloodlines and watching the big sales. I found some local bulls and thought I might bounce them off you all. I have included the EPDs and accuracy too - anyone have any thoughts?

Bull #1 Sire: Summitcrest High Prime OH29
BW: 72lbs (Has great build)
205 Adj: 721
CED +6/.27
BW +.5/.37
WW +36/.31
YW +62/.26
CEM +8/.10
Milk +19/.17

Bull #2 Sire: Leachman Right Time
BW: 89lbs (HAs great build)
205 Adj: 761
CED +5/.30
BW +1.5/.37
WW +38/.31
YW +66/.26
CEM +7/.19
Milk +20/.26

Bull #3 Sire: TC Freedom 104
BW: 78lbs (Has good build - not as heavy as I expected)
205 Adj: 730
CED +7/.27
BW +1.0/.37
WW +38/.31
YW +67/.24
CEM +9/.09
Milk +23/.11

Bull #4 Sire: AAR Traveler 2390
BW: 77lbs
205 Adj: 693
CED +7/.20
BW +.9/.34
WW +29/.26
YW +56/.12
CEM +7/.05
Milk +23/.10

 

[Alan]

Dana,

Not going to be much help, but I would like to educate myself on EPD's a little more...what type of bulls are these? Black Angus?

Alan

 

[Chuckie]

I think any of the four would be fine. But for me, it would be the one of the two that you stated as having a great build, #1 or #2. One thing on these bulls, it shows the percentages to be low. So it can move either way as far as the EPD's, but proably not a great deal. I like to see bulls with percentages in 80's and above if I am really hoping that the numbers go right. The highest percentages on these bulls are only in the 30's. But still, all bulls with a high percentage started out with low numbers too. I would pick the one that my eye kept going back to the most.

 

[Dana Kopp]

yep - Black Angus

 

[Frankie]

I am in the market for a new heifer bull. My last one threw 90-100+lb calves, just a little bigger than I had expected/wanted. So I have been looking at a variety of bloodlines and watching the big sales. I found some local bulls and thought I might bounce them off you all. I have included the EPDs and accuracy too - anyone have any thoughts?

Bull #1 Sire: Summitcrest High Prime OH29
BW: 72lbs (Has great build)
205 Adj: 721
CED +6/.27
BW +.5/.37
WW +36/.31
YW +62/.26
CEM +8/.10
Milk +19/.17

Bull #2 Sire: Leachman Right Time
BW: 89lbs (HAs great build)
205 Adj: 761
CED +5/.30
BW +1.5/.37
WW +38/.31
YW +66/.26
CEM +7/.19
Milk +20/.26

Bull #3 Sire: TC Freedom 104
BW: 78lbs (Has good build - not as heavy as I expected)
205 Adj: 730
CED +7/.27
BW +1.0/.37
WW +38/.31
YW +67/.24
CEM +9/.09
Milk +23/.11

Bull #4 Sire: AAR Traveler 2390
BW: 77lbs
205 Adj: 693
CED +7/.20
BW +.9/.34
WW +29/.26
YW +56/.12
CEM +7/.05
Milk +23/.10

Look at the dam side as much as the sire side of the pedigree. As you can see their accuracies are low and the EPDs may change as they get some calves reported. If you go to the http://www.angus.org site and do a Pedigree Lookup, you can track the dam's side of the pedigree. If there's a bull or cow close up in the pedigree with a big birthweight, I'd be cautious. Also remember that the cows you breed them to will have much to do with the calf's birthweight. Good luck...

 

[Dana Kopp]

These are yearling bulls, finding one with more than .30 acc is nice, most aren't that high. The dam side of the pedigrees are all solid, their EPD accuracy generally are .05 to .20 because they are younger cows and there is still a lot of data out on some of the bloodlines, not a lot of AHIR data yet. Cow sires/grandsires include VDAR New Trend 315, GDAR Traveler 71, Basin Emulation 5653, and a Bando (i forget which one).

Though commercial, my cows almost all have registered black Angus sires or Grand-sires, including GT Sentry, Committment, Conneally Dateline, and several others...They all produce very good calves and have good milk. I would like to see more butt on my calves - we have great carcass reports but the fat is higher than I'd like on the back. But I don't want to lose calving ease...I don't ask too much do I???

 

[jerry27150]

yeah a live calf is always worth more than a dead one, go for an easy birth on heifers

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

I would say you are just looking for some confirmations?

I would say, go with #1 you have listed. Bull #1 Sire: Summitcrest High Prime OH29

 

[BA]

Bull #1. sire of #3 increased drasticallly for BW EPD after first crop and #2 is 89 lbs. - Probably about like your old bull.

 

[Dana Kopp]

Yeah, I was just poking around to see if anyone said " WHOA! That sire really throws heavy calves, light ones are a fluke or love my bull out of.....he throws awesome calves..."

We actually bought the Summitcrest bull and a friend bought the #4 Traveler bull for his 8 cows. He is mainly interested in live calves, and needed a good calm bull, which these all were, that he could use for both heifers and cows on more open range-type conditions for several years and build his herd - besides the price was right both the buyer and seller think they got a deal!

 

[myersfarm]

i have 2 of the summitcrest high prime bulls half brothers just bought them in november...i have bought from this guy for the last years so i had a hard time buying one not related to my bulls ones before were a new design 036 son and a scotchcap son........they looked great to me no calfs out them yet but...looking forward to that cross......john

 

[PNZMAN]

TRY A PINZGAUER BULL WILL ADD QUALITY TO YOUR HERD AS WELL AS POUNDS ON YOUR CALVES JUST ALSO A WHITE TAIL....

LATER

 

[krenwic]

PNZMAN: he did not ask you try to sell him another bull. he wanted some help picking out from 4 he had already narrowed it down to.

Next time--answer the question, and stop trying to sell your breed

 

[PNZMAN]

PNZMAN: he did not ask you try to sell him another bull. he wanted some help picking out from 4 he had already narrowed it down to.

Next time--answer the question, and stop trying to sell your breed

sir i hate to do this to you but im not into the pinzgauer breed i have some but i dont breed to a pinzgauer bull i use an agus bull.....ty

for your strong concern though i appreciate it

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Dana,

Not going to be much help, but I would like to educate myself on EPD's a little more...what type of bulls are these? Black Angus?

Alan

Absolutely! If you are seeking information on EPD's, contact Stephen Blezinger, Ph.D., PAS at: http://[email protected]. He has written hundreds of articles for various periodicals, many of which have appeared in "Beef Magazine" and "Cattle Today". Also the American Angus Association can give you more information than you can assimilate in a week! DOC HARRIS

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I am in the market for a new heifer bull. My last one threw 90-100+lb calves, just a little bigger than I had expected/wanted. So I have been looking at a variety of bloodlines and watching the big sales. I found some local bulls and thought I might bounce them off you all. I have included the EPDs and accuracy too - anyone have any thoughts?

Bull #1 Sire: Summitcrest High Prime OH29
BW: 72lbs (Has great build)
205 Adj: 721
CED +6/.27
BW +.5/.37
WW +36/.31
YW +62/.26
CEM +8/.10
Milk +19/.17

Bull #2 Sire: Leachman Right Time
BW: 89lbs (HAs great build)
205 Adj: 761
CED +5/.30
BW +1.5/.37
WW +38/.31
YW +66/.26
CEM +7/.19
Milk +20/.26

Bull #3 Sire: TC Freedom 104
BW: 78lbs (Has good build - not as heavy as I expected)
205 Adj: 730
CED +7/.27
BW +1.0/.37
WW +38/.31
YW +67/.24
CEM +9/.09
Milk +23/.11

Bull #4 Sire: AAR Traveler 2390
BW: 77lbs
205 Adj: 693
CED +7/.20
BW +.9/.34
WW +29/.26
YW +56/.12
CEM +7/.05
Milk +23/.10

Any bull with a birth EPD of 1.5 or less will result in a calf which will calve more easily than a bull with a birth EPD of +7! The dam should also have a birth EPD of less than +4 or +5. That, or course, is not the entire answer to calving ease, but it is a large part. Calving Ease should start at least THREE months BEFORE the cow or heifer is bred, and proper management care should continue from that point forward. LOTS of GOOD drinking water! ALWAYS.

 

[dun]

Dana,

Not going to be much help, but I would like to educate myself on EPD's a little more...what type of bulls are these? Black Angus?

Alan

Absolutely! If you are seeking information on EPD's, contact Stephen Blezinger, Ph.D., PAS at: http://[email protected]. He has written hundreds of articles for various periodicals, many of which have appeared in "Beef Magazine" and "Cattle Today". Also the American Angus Association can give you more information than you can assimilate in a week! DOC HARRIS

Better be careful. There may be someone that will get upset about anyone that has published articles or studys

dun

 

[Australian Cattleman]

I don't trust EPDs or Breedplan. Been caught before when I took breedplan figures in to account.
Look at the animals conformation,size,weight,shoulders and get an idea on how much he weighed at birth. Also look at the cows you are going to put him with. I have had large frame South Devon cows have trouble with calving to an Angus bull. So just ask about and look about like you are doing.

Colin

 

[Dana Kopp]

I don't base any decisions strictly on EPDs, we have looked at birth weights, the EPDs and the bulls themselves and we know our herd, their faults and what we want in our calves.
The bull that we used on our heifers last year has a birth EPD of +1.5 (.20 acc) but his birth weight was 89 lbs and the lightest calf he threw was 85 pounds, two were 100 and the others were in the high 90s. Great calves, just bigger than I like my heifers to have. My other bull has a bw EPD of +1.1 (.20 acc) but his birth weight was 80 lbs - his calves varied from 70 to 85 lbs, very active good lookers too. Had I known the actual birth weights on the bulls when I turned them out I would have swapped them, but unfortunately I didn't know that (important) piece of info...learn from your mistakes!!
Since the sires of three of the bulls were/are popular AI sires I thought someone might have some additional insight or thoughts.

 

[preston39]

dana koop,

doc harri's comments and others are right on...also.....what did you feed these girls during the last trimester? The wrong feed can influnce the calf size no matter the bull u use.