Bull with translocation gene, semen testing questions

Help Support CattleToday:

Kathie in Thorp":hrk6stzj said:
I'll make this question short -- Do the major semen suppliers in the USA require a check for the translocation gene -- for any translocation gene affecting fertility, no matter what prefix is attached to the name of it?

Kathie, the reason no one is answering that question is as follows in an orderly fasion:

1. It is a (1;29) Robertsoniam Translocation not a Translocation Gene as djinwa stated.
2. There are no federal or state regulations that specifically outline a list of genetic tests required for semen. There are hyigene requirements, handing requirements, AI technique requirements, etc. What djinwa stated was that bull was only tested because it was being exported. It would have potentially never been detected if someone had not requested export of the semen.
3. Major semen companies like the SS rep I talked to comply with NAAB and CSS requirements which do not provide a list of genetic anomalies to test for.
4. Kenley Conner told me they test for CA, NH, etc. Those are anomalies that have come to light in the last 10 years that have almost destoryed some angus breeders. But this is on a company by company basis as "good business".
5. There is a scientific reason you would not impose rigorous genetic testing reqirements on semen. It is an open field. Unless you are a student of genetics, it may be difficult to appreciate. But it would be like setting a target and continuously moving it.
 
inyati13":qugmp932 said:
Kathie in Thorp":qugmp932 said:
I'll make this question short -- Do the major semen suppliers in the USA require a check for the translocation gene -- for any translocation gene affecting fertility, no matter what prefix is attached to the name of it?

Kathie, the reason no one is answering that question is as follows in an orderly fasion:

1. It is a (1;29) Robertsoniam Translocation not a Translocation Gene as djinwa stated.
2. There are no federal or state regulations that specifically outline a list of genetic tests required for semen. There are hyigene requirements, handing requirements, AI technique requirements, etc. What djinwa stated was that bull was only tested because it was being exported. It would have potentially never been detected if someone had not requested export of the semen.
3. Major semen companies like the SS rep I talked to comply with NAAB and CSS requirements which do not provide a list of genetic anomalies to test for.
4. Kenley Conner told me they test for CA, NH, etc. Those are anomalies that have come to light in the last 10 years that have almost destoryed some angus breeders. But this is on a company by company basis as "good business".
5. There is a scientific reason you would not impose rigorous genetic testing reqirements on semen. It is an open field. Unless you are a student of genetics, it may be difficult to appreciate. But it would be like setting a target and continuously moving it.
Inyati, I appreciate your attempts to explain this to me. You're right -- I don't understand much of this at all, and I DO appreciate your efforts to educate me!!
 
:) :drink: :rtarrow: :drink: Glad you did not think I pushed it too hard. But I thought you needed an answer.

I know some of this is difficult. Genetics was the only biology class I took that I dropped to a B in. My neice has her Ph D in Molecular Genetics from Washington University in St Louis. My son Clint is doing his Ph D in molecular biology at Vanderbilt in Nashville. Both are in the nations top schools. When we all get together for a family event, the three of us get started, my sister finally comes over puts her head close to my ear and says, "I know you like this but the rest of us want you to shut-up."
:cowboy:
 
Inyati, you might be technically correct, but that doesn't really change the issue. I was assuming there are genes that control the genes. A translocation gene that controls how the chromosomes are put together. Just like a gene that produces a certain hair color.

You discuss translocations as though they are genetic accidents. Problem with that is like other genetic traits, the translocations I'm discussing are inherited at predictable rates. And because they are inherited at predictable rates, I'm assuming there is a gene that is transferred that controls how chromosomes are made.

Anyway, I talked to someone from a big semen company today and he said they do not routinely test bulls, even the big name ones. Apparently not an issue, though he was not aware of any surveys on the prevalence of this in the general beef population.

I've learned this translocation has a higher prevalence in a specific population of an uncommon breed. So most people don't need to care about it.
 
djinwa":2lj76bjw said:
Inyati, you might be technically correct, but that doesn't really change the issue. I was assuming there are genes that control the genes. A translocation gene that controls how the chromosomes are put together. Just like a gene that produces a certain hair color.

You discuss translocations as though they are genetic accidents. Problem with that is like other genetic traits, the translocations I'm discussing are inherited at predictable rates. And because they are inherited at predictable rates, I'm assuming there is a gene that is transferred that controls how chromosomes are made.

Anyway, I talked to someone from a big semen company today and he said they do not routinely test bulls, even the big name ones. Apparently not an issue, though he was not aware of any surveys on the prevalence of this in the general beef population.

I've learned this translocation has a higher prevalence in a specific population of an uncommon breed. So most people don't need to care about it.

djinwa, I could not find reference to a "translocator gene". There may be some translocations that are influenced by a "translocator gene", but I could not find any. The translocation you are referencing, the (1;29) Robertsonian Translocation, does not appear to be influenced by a "translocator gene".

The origins of translocations in the life history of a line of cattle is a random occurrance. After that, the genetic defect becomes inherited. Italics, the origination of translocations in this case a bull is during spermatogenesis, when the spermatozoa are being formed by the process of meiosis; the chromosomes line up and homologous chromosomes separate. When they separate, the limbs of the chromosomes can become broken and get mixed with a non-homologous chromosome (translocated). This is a random event. Accident is not the word to use, call it a random anomaly.

After origination, the translocated genes become inherited by the off spring. The off-spring like this subject bull become carriers. There will be a predictable inheritance of the defect. The abstract to your second reference is more related to predicting fertility not the frequecy of the defects occurance. NOTE: Cows may also carry the (1;29).

The other thread on Translocation, I started for the purpose of determining what testing is performed. I called Select Sires and they directed me to the National Association of Animal Breeders (NAAB) which has a subsidiary, Certified Semen Service (CSS) that operates under an MOU with the USDA. There is not routine testing for genetic anomalies or for determining if animals are carriers of genetic defects. Semen companies may test based on their own inhouse protocols, for example, Kenley Conner stated that SS tests for CA, AM, and NH in the Black Angus breed.
 
inyati13":izotrzbw said:
:) :drink: :rtarrow: :drink: Glad you did not think I pushed it too hard. But I thought you needed an answer.

I know some of this is difficult. Genetics was the only biology class I took that I dropped to a B in. My neice has her Ph D in Molecular Genetics from Washington University in St Louis. My son Clint is doing his Ph D in molecular biology at Vanderbilt in Nashville. Both are in the nations top schools. When we all get together for a family event, the three of us get started, my sister finally comes over puts her head close to my ear and says, "I know you like this but the rest of us want you to shut-up."
:cowboy:

LOL!!!!
Love that visual... and thanks for all the education. I'm with Kathie, I LOVE learning about genetics, but sometimes I need a little more explaining on some things.
 
glacierridge":1ra8rywz said:
inyati13":1ra8rywz said:
:) :drink: :rtarrow: :drink: Glad you did not think I pushed it too hard. But I thought you needed an answer.

I know some of this is difficult. Genetics was the only biology class I took that I dropped to a B in. My neice has her Ph D in Molecular Genetics from Washington University in St Louis. My son Clint is doing his Ph D in molecular biology at Vanderbilt in Nashville. Both are in the nations top schools. When we all get together for a family event, the three of us get started, my sister finally comes over puts her head close to my ear and says, "I know you like this but the rest of us want you to shut-up."
:cowboy:

LOL!!!!
Love that visual... and thanks for all the education. I'm with Kathie, I LOVE learning about genetics, but sometimes I need a little more explaining on some things.

Anne, one thing a man does not try to do, pizz off a woman.
There are only two types of guys that are cavalier about pizzin off women,
Gay guys and Dam fools.
I go out of my way to avoid falling into either of those categories. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
inyati13":3mg7okeh said:
djinwa":3mg7okeh said:
Inyati, you might be technically correct, but that doesn't really change the issue. I was assuming there are genes that control the genes. A translocation gene that controls how the chromosomes are put together. Just like a gene that produces a certain hair color.

You discuss translocations as though they are genetic accidents. Problem with that is like other genetic traits, the translocations I'm discussing are inherited at predictable rates. And because they are inherited at predictable rates, I'm assuming there is a gene that is transferred that controls how chromosomes are made.

Anyway, I talked to someone from a big semen company today and he said they do not routinely test bulls, even the big name ones. Apparently not an issue, though he was not aware of any surveys on the prevalence of this in the general beef population.

I've learned this translocation has a higher prevalence in a specific population of an uncommon breed. So most people don't need to care about it.

djinwa, I could not find reference to a "translocator gene". There may be some translocations that are influenced by a "translocator gene", but I could not find any. The translocation you are referencing, the (1;29) Robertsonian Translocation, does not appear to be influenced by a "translocator gene".

The origins of translocations in the life history of a line of cattle is a random occurrance. After that, the genetic defect becomes inherited. Italics, the origination of translocations in this case a bull is during spermatogenesis, when the spermatozoa are being formed by the process of meiosis; the chromosomes line up and homologous chromosomes separate. When they separate, the limbs of the chromosomes can become broken and get mixed with a non-homologous chromosome (translocated). This is a random event. Accident is not the word to use, call it a random anomaly.

After origination, the translocated genes become inherited by the off spring. The off-spring like this subject bull become carriers. There will be a predictable inheritance of the defect. The abstract to your second reference is more related to predicting fertility not the frequecy of the defects occurance. NOTE: Cows may also carry the (1;29).

The other thread on Translocation, I started for the purpose of determining what testing is performed. I called Select Sires and they directed me to the National Association of Animal Breeders (NAAB) which has a subsidiary, Certified Semen Service (CSS) that operates under an MOU with the USDA. There is not routine testing for genetic anomalies or for determining if animals are carriers of genetic defects. Semen companies may test based on their own inhouse protocols, for example, Kenley Conner stated that SS tests for CA, AM, and NH in the Black Angus breed.

Okay, I'll accept what you're saying.

The issue for me is now more about how breed associations work, and the interest, or lack of, in eliminating problems.
 
djinwa":3mpyts3g said:
Okay, I'll accept what you're saying.

The issue for me is now more about how breed associations work, and the interest, or lack of, in eliminating problems.

I've got the impression from reading around that breeders want to have as much information on the bulls they are marketing as possible, but some of the tests are either not available or are prohibitively expensive.
There is new information on the bovine genome available all the time, but it seems like the technology to really make use of it is about where computers were sixty years ago.

There is short-term benefit for marketers to bury their heads in the sand on some issues, that is undeniable. Whether they are doing that or not is going to be different for every breed association, every semen provider, & as far as I can see the export laws are completely random and unrelated to logic.
 
regolith":1p8rt6cm said:
djinwa":1p8rt6cm said:
Okay, I'll accept what you're saying.

The issue for me is now more about how breed associations work, and the interest, or lack of, in eliminating problems.

I've got the impression from reading around that breeders want to have as much information on the bulls they are marketing as possible, but some of the tests are either not available or are prohibitively expensive.
There is new information on the bovine genome available all the time, but it seems like the technology to really make use of it is about where computers were sixty years ago.

There is short-term benefit for marketers to bury their heads in the sand on some issues, that is undeniable. Whether they are doing that or not is going to be different for every breed association, every semen provider, & as far as I can see the export laws are completely random and unrelated to logic.
Regolith, the task is vast and expensive. :tiphat: I second that last sentence. :)
 
djinwa, I worked as a technical representative on a committee writing regulations pursuant to Statues promulgated by the US Congress. Those committees consist of advocates, technical experts in their field and legal counsel., It is not easy to write regulations that are fair to everyone. If you get someone on those committees who has an agenda, unfair/contrary/unworkable regulations are the result.

If I were in the semen business it would concern me that statues and regulations regulating semen might be a detriment to the industry. If the committee/draftees of the statues are not well versed in genetics, the statues could contain many unrealistic and impossible requirements.

Semen companies have the incentive placed on them by the customer to provide semen that is safe and as free of genetic defects as possible. The CSS is on the right track in my opinion to not get involved but to let the semen co and the customer work it out. As long as they do not hide defects that hit the breeder blind.
 

Latest posts

Top