Bull to evaluate

[bandit80]

4 year old Balancer bull for evaluation. He hasn't seen a lick of grain since he was two, just pasture and hay.

Again I apologize for the poorer quality cell phone pics.

I was real high on this bull when I bought him, but the older he gets, the more faults I find. Side profile is OK, but really he lacks quite a bit when you get behind him. He is a real good maternal bull, and I have kept a few heifers out of him. A couple of his progeny will calve for the first time this spring. This will more than likely be his last breeding season, as I feel as if I can buy a much better bull than him. Unless I'm just being too hard on him.?

Edit: Can someone tell me how to post these in the proper size?? :dunce:

 

[brandonm_13]

He looks like a miniature. Oh wait. That's just the picture size. :lol:

In all seriousness, Pysically, he isn't as appealing as some I"ve seen (although its hard to tell with the black hair color and small pictures). The side view is better than the behind shot. The main point is, it doesn't matter what he looks like. It only matters what his offspring look and perform like. If you're satisfied with them, then keep him. You could always do worse. Heck you could go out and buy the best looking bull you see, and pull all your calves next year.

 

[TB-Herefords]

His neck looks thicker than his hips. I have a angus bull that really hasn't held up to par. When I bought him he look like a good bull and worth takin home; but as a three year old he has lost some of the qualitys I bought him for. If it happens to the bull why wouldn't it happen to the off spring. Personally not worth the chance in the long run. Cant you find a better lookin maternal bull. If your cows are maternal but throwin terible lookin calve whats the benifits. Are you gonna tell the buyers " calves dont look that great but the cows shur are good mammas"

 

[LoveMoo11]

its kind of hard to tell from the pics, but I agree that he's certainly not the best bull I have ever seen, but better than others But unless you are showing him, it really doesn't matter what he looks like as long as he is earning his keep by giving you good offspring and keeping himself healthy enough to do the job.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

bandit80-

No-o-o, You are NOT being too hard on him! He lacks bone, is cut up in the flank, and lacks hindquarter - BIG time! You can do a lot better, particularly right now! He looks as though he has BR New Design breeding. "Funnel Butt".

DOC HARRIS

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't like him; but keep in mind that a fattened 18 month year old bull with not a care in the world but wolfing down hay is often going to look better than he would years later working his butt off (literally in his case). He is not getting any grain, he is working a bunch of cows, its winter, he's aging, I will cut him a little bit of slack. IF he is still sound and he passes his yearly BSE, don't evaluate HIM, evaluate his calf crop. Is he getting his cows bred? Do you think other genetics would improve weaning weights? Are his first daughters keepers or are they not as good as his daughters? Are his calves thick?? IF you think his calves are subpar compared to what your herd has done in the past, fire him no matter what he looks like!! If his calves are the best you have ever had, keep him and give him more to eat.

 

[CPL]

I don't like him; but keep in mind that a fattened 18 month year old bull with not a care in the world but wolfing down hay is often going to look better than he would years later working his butt off (literally in his case). He is not getting any grain, he is working a bunch of cows, its winter, he's aging, I will cut him a little bit of slack. IF he is still sound and he passes his yearly BSE, don't evaluate HIM, evaluate his calf crop. Is he getting his cows bred? Do you think other genetics would improve weaning weights? Are his first daughters keepers or are they not as good as his daughters? Are his calves thick?? IF you think his calves are subpar compared to what your herd has done in the past, fire him no matter what he looks like!! If his calves are the best you have ever had, keep him and give him more to eat.

Brandon- I highly regard your opinions, but do we really want to be selecting for bulls that essentially fall apart at 4 years old?

 

[Brandonm22]

We really don't know much about this bull and I didn't give a cull/keep opinion other than I need more information (I certainly wouldn't buy him today). Going from the original post, we know that he used to look better than he does now and he never gets any grain. We can kinda tell that the bull IS falling part; but is that the fault of the bull or the management of the bull? I don't like to supplement a bull; but I would rather do that than buy $2000-4000 bulls and rapidly wear them out.

 

[brandonm_13]

Something I would like to know is, how big is the pasture that he is breeding cows? How many cows does he have to breed. Are the cows synchrozid so he has a short time and a lot of cows? Was this picture taken toward the end of breeding season. Personally, I wouldn't BUY this bull if I was going to go look for a bull, but I have seen some bulls that were used too much, that looked bad, until they had time to recover. Like I said before, it really only matters what his calves look like. Are his steers masculine? Do they grow well? Do his daughters look good? Unless you're keeping all of them as replacements, they need to bring a good price where ever you sell them.

 

[KNERSIE]

Something I would like to know is, how big is the pasture that he is breeding cows? How many cows does he have to breed. Are the cows synchrozid so he has a short time and a lot of cows? Was this picture taken toward the end of breeding season. Personally, I wouldn't BUY this bull if I was going to go look for a bull, but I have seen some bulls that were used too much, that looked bad, until they had time to recover. Like I said before, it really only matters what his calves look like. Are his steers masculine? Do they grow well? Do his daughters look good? Unless you're keeping all of them as replacements, they need to bring a good price where ever you sell them.

Tell me what the significance is of steers looking masculine?

 

[bandit80]

bandit80-

No-o-o, You are NOT being too hard on him! He lacks bone, is cut up in the flank, and lacks hindquarter - BIG time! You can do a lot better, particularly right now! He looks as though he has BR New Design breeding. "Funnel Butt".

DOC HARRIS

He is actually an Alberta Traveler 416 son, but he is a funnel butt if I have ever seen one.

 

[brandonm_13]

Something I would like to know is, how big is the pasture that he is breeding cows? How many cows does he have to breed. Are the cows synchrozid so he has a short time and a lot of cows? Was this picture taken toward the end of breeding season. Personally, I wouldn't BUY this bull if I was going to go look for a bull, but I have seen some bulls that were used too much, that looked bad, until they had time to recover. Like I said before, it really only matters what his calves look like. Are his steers masculine? Do they grow well? Do his daughters look good? Unless you're keeping all of them as replacements, they need to bring a good price where ever you sell them.

Tell me what the significance is of steers looking masculine?

Let me clarify. Since the bull doesn't look that great, my question was, do the steers look like him? Do they look more feminine like a heifer, or do they look like they were once male?

 

[KNERSIE]

Something I would like to know is, how big is the pasture that he is breeding cows? How many cows does he have to breed. Are the cows synchrozid so he has a short time and a lot of cows? Was this picture taken toward the end of breeding season. Personally, I wouldn't BUY this bull if I was going to go look for a bull, but I have seen some bulls that were used too much, that looked bad, until they had time to recover. Like I said before, it really only matters what his calves look like. Are his steers masculine? Do they grow well? Do his daughters look good? Unless you're keeping all of them as replacements, they need to bring a good price where ever you sell them.

Tell me what the significance is of steers looking masculine?

Let me clarify. Since the bull doesn't look that great, my question was, do the steers look like him? Do they look more feminine like a heifer, or do they look like they were once male?

I am afraid I still don't see your point.

 

[bandit80]

This bull's calves all grow well. They usually average a higher birth weight than my others bulls. Steers look like steers, heifers look feminine like they ought to. My breeding season starts in mid May, and he stays with the cows until September. Preg check this year says all cows were bred by mid July. He was running with another bull this past summer, covering 45 cows on about 240 acres total. He was obviously the dominant bull, so me thinks he bred many more than half. Terrain is steep land. If this was at the end of the breeding season, I would say his conditionis OK, but he has had basically 4 months off.

I currently have 3 bulls that I use on cows, but I am switching some of my cows over to fall calving. I will bascially be able to go from 3 bulls to 2, based on how my pastures are split.

I have this bull, and another Balancer that are the same age, plus a 3 year old purebred Gelbvieh bull. My thoughts are to sell this bull pictured, (based on the reaffirmation from yall of my thoughts) and purchase a different bull. I would then sell the other Balancer bull after this breeding season, leaving me with the purebred Gelbvieh, and whatever other bull I purchase.

 

[brandonm_13]

I am afraid I still don't see your point.

There is supposed to be an obvious difference between a heifer calf and a bull calf. I was just asking if that was apparent in his bull calves.

 

[KNERSIE]

I am afraid I still don't see your point.

There is supposed to be an obvious difference between a heifer calf and a bull calf. I was just asking if that was apparent in his bull calves.

I agree that bullcalves should look like bulls and heifers should look like heifers, but steers look nothing like bulls, hence my question.

 

[brandonm_13]

I just used the word STEER as a general term. What I was trying to say is bull calves should look masculine BEFORE they were steered, and even steers should appear more masculine than heifers. :compute: