Bull Shopping

[2/B or not 2/B]

Well, I already told you all I'm bull shopping. Thanks for the tips. Today was my first ranch visit. Wow, I'm glad I went in person because I was kind of shocked with the condition of this person's cows. Bony little things, some with patchy coats, hips and ribs sticking out, poor conformation, one appeared to be blind or partially so. Came home and looked up the registration on one of the slightly better looking of the bulls (not the one that was running snot from his nose like he was sick) only to see that his grandsire is the same on both sides and there is another bull and cow that appear 3 times each in his visible pedigree. Now that's not normal right?

Took your advice and didn't criticize or say anything insulting. Talked cows with him, thanked him for his time, and will let him know politely when I find something else. He raises 3 kinds of registered cattle and finds buyers for all his bulls each year, some private treaty, some at advertised sales.

I have one more ranch to visit locally and am in contact with a very reputable breeder a few hours away. Their prices are higher than my initial budget, but they've been extremely helpful and open and they're starting to look better all the time...is anyone else here bull shopping? If so, how's it going?

 

[Herefords.US]

Came home and looked up the registration on one of the slightly better looking of the bulls (not the one that was running snot from his nose like he was sick) only to see that his grandsire is the same on both sides and there is another bull and cow that appear 3 times each in his visible pedigree.

Sounds to me like he's improving some of those cattle through linebreeding! :tiphat:

George

 

[novatech]

George is right. If done properly it's great. You will have to check with past customers.
Do not be to quick about writing him off because his cattle are in poor condition. I have made some excellent deals on cattle when they were in the same condition.

 

[alabama]

Unless you have a lot of experance, don't buy cattle that look sick or in poor condition. Your best bet is to buy from someone that takes care of his cattle. It should be more important to you to buy a "good" bull than get a deal on a sick bull.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

Can I invite you to join us at the WSBBA sale in Fallon, NV on 3/29/08?

Plenty of good lookin' bulls will be for sale... the latest count I saw was 90+ bulls, 15+ females consigned. It will be the Western States Beefmaster Breeders Associations largest offering of bulls in one spot that I've seen. Consignors (other than us) include Lasater, Evans, Siddons, etc. so there will for sure be some excellent pedigrees from the Beefmasters on hand.

If you would like to look at some Beefmaster bulls, come join us... we even have a fun dinner the nite before the sale!

Good luck on buying your bull -- looks like you are taking the right approach and doing all your homework first.

 

[kerley]

Is the Bull Sale at Gallaghers ?

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

Is the Bull Sale at Gallaghers ?

Fallon Livestock Exchange, sale starts at 1:00 p.m. on Saturday
Cattle arrive Wednesday nite (with the balance coming in on Thursday morning).

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Earlier someone mentioned to only buy cattle from someone who takes care of them. Be leary of buying someone's pet that will fall apart in the real world.

 

[Dusty]

Guys, lets hit the middle of the road here...

First of all, The gentleman was using line breeding, it can work if done right.... I will let that issue go.. I am going to move on to the cows and their condition.. What were the cows running on, did you ask him the ration/feed he was pushing to the cattle..

Now i am going to come out and say.. I try to have my cows at a BCS score of 6 when they calve and keep them at that 6 all the way to grass, on grass they get the extra liquid protein, a different mineral for grass and then cows have to take care of themselves.. My cows can make it through a winter on $383 per head.. That is here in Kansas... They run on stalks, get silage, get protein, mineral, and get about 2lbs of grain when the weather is under 25 degrees... ( I live off the cows, they don't live off me, they rent there time from me!! With the rent prices now they have to make me 250 plus a head a year to stay on the farm)

Now, i understand your bull shopping, bulls have to taken care of, they don't need to be pushed to the limit, but taken care of they do need.. I still live by the moto.. nothing under 650# Weaning weights nothing under 1250# yearling weight and they work from there up on genetics, structure and lets not forget, WHAT DO I NEED FOR MY HERD...

Everyone's herd is different, one guy may need performance, one maternal, one Calving ease... those WW and YW numbers are easily obtainable on all those different genetics..

Just my opinion.. 1. set a base 2. Select a direction of your program 3. Select a bull type.. 4. Select a breeder.. (I will tell you guys, find someone you like, trust, and would bring on as a partner to your ranch, because that bull is responsable for 50% of you next years calf crop) 5. Go find what satisfies you!!

Besides that.... be polite, as a breeder i love hearing what others are trying and what is and is not working... We are just happy you gave us some of your time and the opportunity to make you our customer..

 

[novatech]

Guys, lets hit the middle of the road here...

My cows can make it through a winter on $383 per head.. That is here in Kansas... They run on stalks, get silage, get protein, mineral, and get about 2lbs of grain when the weather is under 25 degrees... ( I live off the cows, they don't live off me, they rent there time from me!! With the rent prices now they have to make me 250 plus a head a year to stay on the farm) quote]
$383 just for winter? I do not understand how you can make $250 per cow with that much expense. That sounds more like yearly expense around here, and it is still hard to come out with $250 at the end.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

So is it linebreeding when you get good results and inbreeding when you don't? I have nothing against linebreeding, but in my opinion the numbers on this bull don't justify the high amount of double and triple duplication present in his pedigree. He had neither calving ease or fleshing ability so what's the point? BCS on most of his cattle was 4 and he's 3 months away from breeding season. I know it's rough in winter and rough in a drought but I felt bad for them and not inclined to try reproducing them in my herd. They're on permanent pasture that looks pretty dormant right now. He feeds out the bulls but doesn't give the cows any mixed feed just enough hay to get them by until the grass starts growing again. We don't pamper our cattle through the winter either, but if I start seeing ribs I do something about it. Now that said, I liked the guy and enjoyed my visit, I just won't be getting a bull from him this year. When I started this process of looking for a bull I got the advice to visit ranches in person and view the dams whenever possible. I'm glad I did. I learned something. After visiting my second ranch I learned even more. Each place is different and it's interesting. I do think if you're a breeder and you invite people to your ranch to view your livestock, keeping them healthy and well cared for is part of good marketing.

 

[dun]

When I started this process of looking for a bull I got the advice to visit ranches in person and view the dams whenever possible. I'm glad I did. I learned something. After visiting my second ranch I learned even more. Each place is different and it's interesting.

Realizing that everyone does it different is a good step forward. When I was DHIA testing I found out that every dairy had a different way of prepping a cow for milking. A dozen herds and a dozen totally different methods. Beef is even more variable. Selecting breeding stock from a farm that does things as close to the way you do it will be less expensive in the long run. Less disappointing too.