Bull Selection

[cloud9cattle]

What are your thoughts on using Maine/Angus Bulls On 1st calf heifers? Heifers are American Brahman Cross. How big are their calfs? I would imagine their calves would make tremendous females. Been noticing Clay Nohavitz videos on you tube!

 

[gizmom]

Our experience with Maine wasn't good but it was also 20 years ago. Our son used some of his steer earnings to purchase a couple of purebred Maine cows. It got to the point that we knew when anything out of the Maine was going to calve we had to be ready to pull the calf. Not a very good first experience with the breed. As I said this was a long time ago and they may have improved their calving ease but based on that I sure wouldn't use a Maine on heifers based on our experience.

Gizmom

 

[brimmer X]

Brahman side of the heifers will help you some with the calving ease. That being said I believe a low birth weight bull should be used on first timers. I have been receiving first time calves from my Maine-angus bull, but he is a 7/8 angus. None of his calves have been over 55lbs on bruanvieh and bruanvieh cross females. Been using a hereford on adults cows and a few heifers. It has not worked out so well on the heifers. Love the calves from the adult cows though.

I'm not so much an advocate of the Maine breed,(not real familiar with them), but purchased this bull for an easy calver. Purchased him as an 18 month old last year. He looked good and was just shy of $2500. The calves have been small, but very active once born. They are growing well and pretty much have them sold by weaning time (females). Most of my calves are sold at the sale barn.

I have seen some of the videos of Clay N.'s animals. They do look good and would probably add some pounds, but have not seen them in person nor any of the offspring.

 

[dun]

For anyone breeding heifers, not doing a pelvic measurement at yearling is a poor idea. This year we did our usual pelvics and a heifer out of one of our biggest (at yearling) measured pelvics and sired by a bull who's daughters always have had parge pelvics. That heifer barely made the cut. The second lowest pelvic size we've ever had. She was a 160.5, all of the others were in the 180 range as was her mother. 20 cm as a yealring can make a huge difference in what size they can easily pass as 2 year olds.

 

[cloud9cattle]

Brahman side of the heifers will help you some with the calving ease. That being said I believe a low birth weight bull should be used on first timers. I have been receiving first time calves from my Maine-angus bull, but he is a 7/8 angus. None of his calves have been over 55lbs on bruanvieh and bruanvieh cross females. Been using a hereford on adults cows and a few heifers. It has not worked out so well on the heifers. Love the calves from the adult cows though.

I'm not so much an advocate of the Maine breed,(not real familiar with them), but purchased this bull for an easy calver. Purchased him as an 18 month old last year. He looked good and was just shy of $2500. The calves have been small, but very active once born. They are growing well and pretty much have them sold by weaning time (females). Most of my calves are sold at the sale barn.

I have seen some of the videos of Clay N.'s animals. They do look good and would probably add some pounds, but have not seen them in person nor any of the offspring.

I was just under the impression that all that muscle can cause calving issues.

 

[Gators Rule]

I was just under the impression that all that muscle can cause calving issues.

I would be more concerned with the frame size and bone structure of the calf than it's muscling. Also, I think most of a calf's muscling is going to come from momma, and what momma is eating, than daddy, though I know dad's genetics also play a role. IF I were feeding or supplementing a prego cow, I would cease doing so during that final trimester, especially if I had any concern about potential birth problems.

 

[cloud9cattle]

I was just under the impression that all that muscle can cause calving issues.

I would be more concerned with the frame size and bone structure of the calf than it's muscling. Also, I think most of a calf's muscling is going to come from momma, and what momma is eating, than daddy, though I know dad's genetics also play a role. IF I were feeding or supplementing a prego cow, I would cease doing so during that final trimester, especially if I had any concern about potential birth problems.

Well from the look it looks alot like the maines have cut the frame down. And if you look at the videos the bulls look like little meat wagons.

 

[Cross breeder #1]

What are your thoughts on using Maine/Angus Bulls On 1st calf heifers? Heifers are American Brahman Cross. How big are their calfs? I would imagine their calves would make tremendous females. Been noticing Clay Nohavitz videos on you tube!

If they are the clubby bred ones I would wait until atleast their 3rd calf. Absolutely do not use the clubby maines on heifers. Even with the Brama in there. They're (Maines) not usually going to be easy calvers unless you get some from a program that is commercailly oriented such as ZNT cattle in TX. I'm from MO but I could tell you that most of their cattle have bloodlines to be CE and they talk about using them on heifers. They have a lot of 'Ali' influence. Anything that has Ali would be more CE than normal. I am not an associate of ZNT just a fan.

 

[lithuanian farmer]

I was just under the impression that all that muscle can cause calving issues.

I would be more concerned with the frame size and bone structure of the calf than it's muscling. Also, I think most of a calf's muscling is going to come from momma, and what momma is eating, than daddy, though I know dad's genetics also play a role. IF I were feeding or supplementing a prego cow, I would cease doing so during that final trimester, especially if I had any concern about potential birth problems.

I agree. When calf is smaller framed and isn't big boned cow will calve more easily, even if calf has more muscles, than if calf is very big framed and has big bones. When muscle is stuck it's easier to pull it than the bone.
If you will give meal and silage for a pregnant cow, it doesn't matter what breed she is, because she will have much bigger calf and might have calving problems. Why some people are calving pure BB cows bred by pure BB bull without assistance, while are people who have lost of problems calving pure Simmental cows? What you give for your cow for the last three months before calving is very important if don't want to have calving problems. Our cows get hay before calving and haven't had problems even if our cows usually have quite heavy calves.
Genetics plays an important role too.

 

[Jessica06]

What are your thoughts on using Maine/Angus Bulls On 1st calf heifers? Heifers are American Brahman Cross. How big are their calfs? I would imagine their calves would make tremendous females. Been noticing Clay Nohavitz videos on you tube!

If they are the clubby bred ones I would wait until atleast their 3rd calf. Absolutely do not use the clubby maines on heifers. Even with the Brama in there. They're (Maines) not usually going to be easy calvers unless you get some from a program that is commercailly oriented such as ZNT cattle in TX. I'm from MO but I could tell you that most of their cattle have bloodlines to be CE and they talk about using them on heifers. They have a lot of 'Ali' influence. Anything that has Ali would be more CE than normal. I am not an associate of ZNT just a fan.

Absolutely. Pedigree, EPD's, and the bull's actual birthweight (somewhat), should play a much more important role in selecting a heifer bull than just simply picking a breed that may or may not have a reputation for calving ease. Which Maines do not have. Heck, there's a lot of Angus bulls out there that I would never breed to heifers. Too much time and money go into raising heifers to mess them up by getting impatient about wanting to get a good calf sooner.

I second Ali for calving ease. Anybody need some semen?? 8)

 

[Son of Butch]

What are your thoughts on using Maine/Angus Bulls On 1st calf heifers? How big are their calfs?

Are you talking about F1 Angus/Maine bulls or I assume a misprint of Maine-Anjou?
I googled cattle birth weight charts and came across a May 2010 chart with black angus as basis.

angus 0.0 lbs
red angus 2.6
hereford 3.4
gelbvieh 4.3
maine-anjou 4.8
brangus 4.9
simmental 5.2
shorthorn 6.4
charolais 9.3
brahman 12.5

2nd chart
calf birth weight average in 2008 when both sires compared are mated to cows of unrelated 3rd breed
analyses conducted by USMARC geneticists.
angus 91.5 lbs
red angus 92.3
brangus 93.9
gelbvieh 95.0
simmental 95.8
maine-anjou 96.1
hereford 96.4
shorthorn 98.1
charolais 99.3
brahman 103.7

unrelated but interesting older chart i stumbled across regarding average angus Bull Calf birth weights
and yearling weights by year.
1973 68 bw 857 yw
1979 73 bw 901 yw
1985 80 bw 978 yw
1991 83 bw 1059 yw
1997 82 bw 1087 yw
2003 81 bw 1140 yw

30 yr change +13 lbs in birth weight and +283 lbs in yearling weight
or to put a more positive spin on it [1991-2003] 12 year change of -2 lbs bw + 81 yw

 

[JWBrahman]

What are your thoughts on using Maine/Angus Bulls On 1st calf heifers? How big are their calfs?

Are you talking about F1 Angus/Maine bulls or I assume a misprint of Maine-Anjou?
I googled cattle birth weight charts and came across a May 2010 chart with black angus as basis.

angus 0.0 lbs
red angus 2.6
hereford 3.4
gelbvieh 4.3
maine-anjou 4.8
brangus 4.9
simmental 5.2
shorthorn 6.4
charolais 9.3
brahman 12.5

This is completely worthless. Breed average for Hereford is 75 pounds, breed average for Brahman is 65 pounds.

 

[JWBrahman]

What are your thoughts on using Maine/Angus Bulls On 1st calf heifers? Heifers are American Brahman Cross. How big are their calfs? I would imagine their calves would make tremendous females. Been noticing Clay Nohavitz videos on you tube!

If you are buying heifers from Clay I would use the lowest birth weight Black Angus bull you can find and would avoid anything with Continental. He buys and mixes thousands to make his lots.

 

[cloud9cattle]

What are your thoughts on using Maine/Angus Bulls On 1st calf heifers? Heifers are American Brahman Cross. How big are their calfs? I would imagine their calves would make tremendous females. Been noticing Clay Nohavitz videos on you tube!

If you are buying heifers from Clay I would use the lowest birth weight Black Angus bull you can find and would avoid anything with Continental. He buys and mixes thousands to make his lots.

Im not buying anything just curious because he says they are low birth weight but Ive never known Maines to be calving ease bulls. With our bramar cross cows we have always just assumed using an angus bull. Looking at 44farms genetics.

 

[JWBrahman]

He is probably correct. The man has a lot to lose and nothing to gain by lying to you. Hard to find somebody who sees more herds of cattle than Clay.

Cross a Hereford bull on Maine cows and you get one heck of a baldie. Maine bull on tigerstripes is respectable as well. There is a Maine breeder 20 minutes from here.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

JWBrahman I just ran across this post and I am wondering if you bred the Maine bull to the Angus heifers and how it turned out?

 

[JWBrahman]

JWBrahman I just ran across this post and I am wondering if you bred the Maine bull to the Angus heifers and how it turned out?

Lauralee we used a lbw Hereford on a Maine Anjou heifer. She has a small percentage of Angus. No problems calving, her calf was around 50 pounds.

Here is the Hereford Maine heifer photo I took recently. The Maine Anjou gives you width. I am hoping to get a Maine Angus bull to use on Brafords.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

I just bought a couple of young 3/4 Maine 1/4 Angus bulls and I'm trying to decide how I want to use them. I also bought two of their sister mates and I think they will go with my Brahman bull nicely. And yes, they have lots of width, all over. The sire was phenomenal, just impressive to look at and watch in motion. I have been assured by the breeder that these are calving ease type bulls. Just wondering if I should use them on the Angus sired heifers or not.

 

[JWBrahman]

Depends entirely on your management system. If your Maines are the commercial type I would use the bulls on heifers. Also, you have the opportunity to maintain ownership of your calves all the way to slaughter you should think about it. Maine Angus usually win our calf to carcass contests with the highest yield and grades of Choice to Prime.

For a well balanced calf the Maine Angus bull meets all the requirements to use on Braford cows.

The few Maine Brahman F1's you see around are too expensive for me but they are nice.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

JW Brahman, thanks for your input. These are the commercial type, not so much club calf show type or seedstock.