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Bull Question

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I have been reading several topics regarding bull size, etc and have read lots of good advise, however, I need some personal advise due to my situation. I have a beefmaster bull that will be 24 mo. old next month and he weighs aprox. 1200lbs. I have owned him since he was about a year old (and he has been with 8 cows). I had him tested at 21 months and the vet could not get enough semen to complete the test (said it was normal due to his age) and to bring him back when he was 2 yrs old to re-test. At that same vet visit, I took 3 of my cows and had them preg tested. 1 cow was pregnant and the other 2 were not. The vet said he was at least “capable” since I had 1 cow that was pregnant, but said he might be to short to breed the other 2 cows because they were about 8 in. taller than he was. Now the vet (and another reputable rancher that saw him that day) said he would continue to grow and would be able to breed my 2 larger cows.

My questions are:
1. Is this bull to small at 1200lbs? (seems to be a little short but stocky). Also with reading previous posts - I know that I should have kept him off the other cows until now…did I stunt his growth?
2. Will he get taller and bigger over the next year or so?
3. Will he be able to breed larger cows (8in. taller) if he doesn’t grow taller?
4. I have 12 heifers with 2 months to go before they are old enough to breed? What should I do? Look for another bull even though I have not seen any of his offspring? He is nice looking.

I have read plenty on AI and AI is not an option for me at this time. I realize I have a lot of questions, but I don’t know what to do. I do wish my wise ol’ grandfather was still around, I lost him a couple of years ago and with him went a great deal of knowledge. And with that…I respect and appreciate very much the people that take their time to answer questions such as mine.
 

Jake

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He should be fine. I would really consider getting rid of those too tall cows because they are so large that they are probably costing you money. If a 1200 lb bull can't breed them they are too large.
 

cherokeeruby

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1200 lbs is a little small for his age but if he is just being raised on pasture it is not horrible. The semen being iffy at 21 months is not good. He should be making plenty by that age. He will continue to grow the rate will depend on the food supply and how hard he has to work. Being 8" shorter is not a problem for a good bull my Hereford is quiet a bit shorter than the Brahmans and he never misses a beat.

Overall from what you said in your post he does not sound like a bull I would want to keep. Can you wait on him for calves with nothing to sell until he gets older?
 

Running Arrow Bill

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With our Longhorns, we now have them semen tested at about 14-15 months. Out of 5 bulls, only one at 15 months produced NO semen following 2 separate jump periods...he was steered after the 2nd attempt. Others that were yearlings and 2-3 year olds all produced quality semen--grade and % live.

Would agree with other posters...may be best to find another bull...may be a fertility issue with him or his bloodline. If genetic, you don't want to pass this on to others...see you at the BBQ!
 

TexasShooter

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cherokeeruby - Can you wait on him for calves with nothing to sell until he gets older?
I could wait on him and have him re-tested in a month. If he didn't test out I could cull him at that point and breed my heifers to the new bull - right? It does make me feel better that him being a little short should not effect his breeding unless he is no good. Also cherokeeruby I saw you were located E. of Dallas. I am located in Kaufman, TX I guess you know where that is...by the way do you know any AI techs in the area of Kaufman County or vets that will mess with a few head?
 

Arnold Ziffle

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I agree with Ruby. At almost 24 months of age he is pretty small for a Beefmaster and should be producing more viable sperm than he apparently is. Unless you know that he has real good genetics and was just stunted by trying to grow these last 18 months or so in what were essentially something like "starvation" type growing conditions I'd get rid of him, especially if his next semen test is also poor. I don't know your location, but in my area these days you can buy a good Beefmaster bull pretty cheaply, relative to the black Angus or Brangus, or Charolais.

But depending on the growing conditions he had, I guess I'd be more concerned about his poor semen test than his smallish size. Years ago I borrowed a friend's young Beefmaster bull that was a good bit smaller than "normal" for his age. But I knew that had been raised in a very overgrazed pasture and during drought conditions at that. And I also could see his sire and dam on the friend's place and felt the genetics were there, if not the groceries! I ended up getting real nice calves from him and they grew just about as well as any calves I've had.
 

Campground Cattle

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At 21 months he should be able to sevice 8 cows with no problem. I start out 18-24 month old bulls (hereford) on 25 cows with no problem. A barren cow is bad a dud bull is a catasrophe. I would retest and if he doesn't pass it's time to go down the road.
 
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Anonymous

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Anonymous":6xny5bt4 said:
I have been reading several topics regarding bull size, etc and have read lots of good advise, however, I need some personal advise due to my situation. I have a beefmaster bull that will be 24 mo. old next month and he weighs aprox. 1200lbs. I have owned him since he was about a year old (and he has been with 8 cows). I had him tested at 21 months and the vet could not get enough semen to complete the test (said it was normal due to his age) and to bring him back when he was 2 yrs old to re-test. At that same vet visit, I took 3 of my cows and had them preg tested. 1 cow was pregnant and the other 2 were not. The vet said he was at least “capable” since I had 1 cow that was pregnant, but said he might be to short to breed the other 2 cows because they were about 8 in. taller than he was. Now the vet (and another reputable rancher that saw him that day) said he would continue to grow and would be able to breed my 2 larger cows.

My questions are:
1. Is this bull to small at 1200lbs? (seems to be a little short but stocky). Also with reading previous posts - I know that I should have kept him off the other cows until now…did I stunt his growth?
2. Will he get taller and bigger over the next year or so?
3. Will he be able to breed larger cows (8in. taller) if he doesn’t grow taller?
4. I have 12 heifers with 2 months to go before they are old enough to breed? What should I do? Look for another bull even though I have not seen any of his offspring? He is nice looking.

I have read plenty on AI and AI is not an option for me at this time. I realize I have a lot of questions, but I don’t know what to do. I do wish my wise ol’ grandfather was still around, I lost him a couple of years ago and with him went a great deal of knowledge. And with that…I respect and appreciate very much the people that take their time to answer questions such as mine.


It is not normal for a 21 month old bull not to test. If a bull doesn't test at 21 months he's not gonna test. 1200 lbs is small for a 2 year old.

BP
 

ollie

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Anonymous":2tx9bnca said:
Anonymous":2tx9bnca said:
I have been reading several topics regarding bull size, etc and have read lots of good advise, however, I need some personal advise due to my situation. I have a beefmaster bull that will be 24 mo. old next month and he weighs aprox. 1200lbs. I have owned him since he was about a year old (and he has been with 8 cows). I had him tested at 21 months and the vet could not get enough semen to complete the test (said it was normal due to his age) and to bring him back when he was 2 yrs old to re-test. At that same vet visit, I took 3 of my cows and had them preg tested. 1 cow was pregnant and the other 2 were not. The vet said he was at least “capable” since I had 1 cow that was pregnant, but said he might be to short to breed the other 2 cows because they were about 8 in. taller than he was. Now the vet (and another reputable rancher that saw him that day) said he would continue to grow and would be able to breed my 2 larger cows.

My questions are:
1. Is this bull to small at 1200lbs? (seems to be a little short but stocky). Also with reading previous posts - I know that I should have kept him off the other cows until now…did I stunt his growth?
2. Will he get taller and bigger over the next year or so?
3. Will he be able to breed larger cows (8in. taller) if he doesn’t grow taller?
4. I have 12 heifers with 2 months to go before they are old enough to breed? What should I do? Look for another bull even though I have not seen any of his offspring? He is nice looking.

I have read plenty on AI and AI is not an option for me at this time. I realize I have a lot of questions, but I don’t know what to do. I do wish my wise ol’ grandfather was still around, I lost him a couple of years ago and with him went a great deal of knowledge. And with that…I respect and appreciate very much the people that take their time to answer questions such as mine.


It is not normal for a 21 month old bull not to test. If a bull doesn't test at 21 months he's not gonna test. 1200 lbs is small for a 2 year old.

BP
I agree.
 

TxCoUnTrYbOy

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my brother has a 16 month old beefmaster heifer and she is well over 1200lb. maybe 1300, maybe a little bit less. 1200lbs for a 2 yr old bull seems really low if a 16 month old heifer is heavier.
 

cherokeeruby

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Hello neighbor.

Dr. Casey Risinger in Terrell does AI I believe, but you have to take the cow to him. Jerry Moore was our AI tech but we haven't AI'ed in years and his health is not the best. He would be in the Terrell phone book if you want to give him a call. Maybe if he isn't doing it anymore he can refer someone. Also try calling COBA in Tyler they might have some ideas. 903-595-3781


TexasShooter":37mms7j7 said:
cherokeeruby - Can you wait on him for calves with nothing to sell until he gets older?
I could wait on him and have him re-tested in a month. If he didn't test out I could cull him at that point and breed my heifers to the new bull - right? It does make me feel better that him being a little short should not effect his breeding unless he is no good. Also cherokeeruby I saw you were located E. of Dallas. I am located in Kaufman, TX I guess you know where that is...by the way do you know any AI techs in the area of Kaufman County or vets that will mess with a few head?
 

txag

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for what it's worth, i agree w/most of the other comments. i would look into getting a new bull. at his age, he should definitely pass a bse and should be weighing more than 1200 lbs. i also agree that a bull a little smaller than the cows can usually get the job done but combined with his low fertility i would get rid of him.

did you purchase him from a beefmaster breeder? if so, you may be able to talk to them about a trade or possibly a credit towards a new bull. if not, in the future, you may want to purchase a bull that has already been tested and guaranteed as a breeder by the seller.
 

TLCfromARK

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I agreed with cherokeeruby. The weight is a little low but not enough to worry about when you think about him "working" 8 cows for close to a year on just grass. The low sperm count is what would bother me. If he was mine I'd have him tested again now and if it was still low I'd carry him on down the road and get another bull. As another poster said a bad bull will wipe out a year of calves.
;-)
 

TexasShooter

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did you purchase him from a beefmaster breeder? if so, you may be able to talk to them about a trade or possibly a credit towards a new bull. if not, in the future, you may want to purchase a bull that has already been tested and guaranteed as a breeder by the seller.

No, I did not. He is full blood and I got a good deal on him because of his age and the owner not having the facilities to separate him from his herd. I saw both parents – sire was 2000+lbs and had been in service for around 7-8 years…really good looking bull.

Thanks for everyone’s response! I will have him tested and weighed again. If a bad test or any question at all I will get rid of him and find another bull. If I had my choice at this point I would like to get a Limousin bull. Does any one know of a reputable Limo breeder in my area - E. of Dallas, TX?
 

eric

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If you have a Tractor Supply Store near you, then you can pick up a Texas Cattleman magazine, and they have alot of ads for different ranches with various breeds of cattle for sale.
 

Campground Cattle

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TexasShooter":3609zfro said:
did you purchase him from a beefmaster breeder? if so, you may be able to talk to them about a trade or possibly a credit towards a new bull. if not, in the future, you may want to purchase a bull that has already been tested and guaranteed as a breeder by the seller.

No, I did not. He is full blood and I got a good deal on him because of his age and the owner not having the facilities to separate him from his herd. I saw both parents – sire was 2000+lbs and had been in service for around 7-8 years…really good looking bull.

Thanks for everyone’s response! I will have him tested and weighed again. If a bad test or any question at all I will get rid of him and find another bull. If I had my choice at this point I would like to get a Limousin bull. Does any one know of a reputable Limo breeder in my area - E. of Dallas, TX?


My opinion only I would steer clear of the Limo, good looking cows. Majority are nuts. :shock: :cboy:
 

la4angus

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TexasShooter":3nfsd68b said:
did you purchase him from a beefmaster breeder? if so, you may be able to talk to them about a trade or possibly a credit towards a new bull. if not, in the future, you may want to purchase a bull that has already been tested and guaranteed as a breeder by the seller.

No, I did not. He is full blood and I got a good deal on him because of his age and the owner not having the facilities to separate him from his herd. I saw both parents – sire was 2000+lbs and had been in service for around 7-8 years…really good looking bull.

Thanks for everyone’s response! I will have him tested and weighed again. If a bad test or any question at all I will get rid of him and find another bull. If I had my choice at this point I would like to get a Limousin bull. Does any one know of a reputable Limo breeder in my area - E. of Dallas, TX?

It doesn't sound like that you got a good deal on him.
It sounds like you bought a Cheap bull at an Expensive Price.
No CALVES No MONEY in the BANK.

If he would have given you the bull and you get no calves he would be expensive.
 
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