Bull question

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Anonymous

Probably a very stupid question, but here goes:

Neighbor's mature Limousin bull crashed through the fence and came onto my property about a week ago. Yesterday I saw him actively trying to breed a cow. She didn't stand still for him while I was there but he kept trying for an hour or so, then I had to leave, so I don't know if she ultimately stood for him. But I would have sworn she was already bred and fairly far along based on her outward appearance, and it looked to me like she was starting to "bag up". My young Black Angus bull just stood around looking disinterested --- but I think he has had a "bad" encounter with the much bigger Limi bull during one of the Limi's earlier visits and maybe just knows his place in the pecking order. Is it possible that a horny bull like that Limi would sometimes try to mount and/or breed cows that are already pregnant? Or is it almost a certainty that the cow in question either was unbred or maybe had been bred but aborted?
 
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Anonymous

my experience has been... trust the bull... he usually knows whats going on... if any questions.... palpate the cow.

just my 2 cents,

gene

> Probably a very stupid question,
> but here goes:

> Neighbor's mature Limousin bull
> crashed through the fence and came
> onto my property about a week ago.
> Yesterday I saw him actively
> trying to breed a cow. She didn't
> stand still for him while I was
> there but he kept trying for an
> hour or so, then I had to leave,
> so I don't know if she ultimately
> stood for him. But I would have
> sworn she was already bred and
> fairly far along based on her
> outward appearance, and it looked
> to me like she was starting to
> "bag up". My young Black
> Angus bull just stood around
> looking disinterested --- but I
> think he has had a "bad"
> encounter with the much bigger
> Limi bull during one of the Limi's
> earlier visits and maybe just
> knows his place in the pecking
> order. Is it possible that a horny
> bull like that Limi would
> sometimes try to mount and/or
> breed cows that are already
> pregnant? Or is it almost a
> certainty that the cow in question
> either was unbred or maybe had
> been bred but aborted?



[email protected]
 
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Anonymous

When a cow is getting close to calving it seems they release some interesting smells. A couple of weeks before calving it isn';t all that unusual to have heifers and even horny steers trying to ride the cow. We have several cows that everybody thinks is a slut for two weeks before calving, everybody is taking a shot at them. Others that never have any one show the least bit of interest in.

dun

> Probably a very stupid question,
> but here goes:

> Neighbor's mature Limousin bull
> crashed through the fence and came
> onto my property about a week ago.
> Yesterday I saw him actively
> trying to breed a cow. She didn't
> stand still for him while I was
> there but he kept trying for an
> hour or so, then I had to leave,
> so I don't know if she ultimately
> stood for him. But I would have
> sworn she was already bred and
> fairly far along based on her
> outward appearance, and it looked
> to me like she was starting to
> "bag up". My young Black
> Angus bull just stood around
> looking disinterested --- but I
> think he has had a "bad"
> encounter with the much bigger
> Limi bull during one of the Limi's
> earlier visits and maybe just
> knows his place in the pecking
> order. Is it possible that a horny
> bull like that Limi would
> sometimes try to mount and/or
> breed cows that are already
> pregnant? Or is it almost a
> certainty that the cow in question
> either was unbred or maybe had
> been bred but aborted?
 
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Anonymous

> When a cow is getting close to
> calving it seems they release some
> interesting smells. A couple of
> weeks before calving it isn';t all
> that unusual to have heifers and
> even horny steers trying to ride
> the cow. We have several cows that
> everybody thinks is a slut for two
> weeks before calving, everybody is
> taking a shot at them. Others that
> never have any one show the least
> bit of interest in.

> dun

Thanks --- of course I still don't know if she was open or not, but at least now I don't feel like it was a really stupid question!

And to one of the previous posters --- there is some merit to what you suggest about shooting the Limi since he's a pretty ornery bastard. When I approach him to try to get him heading for home he gives me that bad-ass look, lowers his head and starts to kick up dirt with one of his front feet --- about that time I get the hell out of his way and hope that his owner will be able to coax him back!
 
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Anonymous

> There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers...lol. Anyway, don't know what state you live in or what the livestock rules and laws are there. Or, what type of relationship you have with the neighbor. For what it's worth, any animal of someone else's that "breaks and enters" is Tresspassing (if the animal has horns, it is probably "criminal tresspass"...). For an estray animal to enter one's property uninvited that may or may not breed one of your stock without permission is obviously jeopardizing your livestock program. In this respect, such a bull incident (to me) would be grounds for sending a bill to the owner; or, at last resort, filing a lawsuit. Any animal from a neighbor that is NOT removed within 24 hours should be (to me) reported to the Sheriff and have him impounded. I know that with our Registered stock that if that happened, the owner would definitely be liable for any damages (to property or to my heifers/cows). To still hang in there for a week without the bull being removed is totally unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. If one had a secure holding pen that they could lure the bull into to keep him isolated until picked up; then, at minimum, you would bill the owner for boarding, fence damages, etc., before they could remove the animal off of your property. With registered stock (in our case), if you don't know with 100% assurance "who the daddy is", then you have no chance to register that calf with resulting loss of significant $$$.
 
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Anonymous

being a good neighbor is how to have a good neighbor. sure as i did then my bull would follow suit and jump. if we all have bulls these thing's are bound to happen. if you work together to fix the fence or use electric and be civil it will work better than being trigger happy. that is my opinion.
 
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Anonymous

I agree that keeping good relations with neighbors is extremely important. It’s up there with grass and water. If the neighbor’s bull is as good or better than yours, no reason to worry about how long it takes them to come get him - unless you’re getting low on grass or running purebreds.

I wouldn’t recommend an electric fence for an outside fence. Electricity will generally turn a bull from greener grass. But if they are both getting whiffs of a willing lady you had best not bank on a hot wire keeping them apart. They will fight through an electric fence and never look back. What they’re doing to each other hurts a lot worse than a hot wire. They will fight through all but the best maintained barb wire fences. You want plenty of barb wire, plenty tight.

Fetching bulls, having visitors, and fixing fence is all part of the drill. It’s a royal pain, but it comes with the territory. The main thing is to get along with the neighbors.

Craig-TX
 
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Anonymous

> I agree that keeping good
> relations with neighbors is
> extremely important. It’s up there
> with grass and water. If the
> neighbor’s bull is as good or
> better than yours, no reason to
> worry about how long it takes them
> to come get him - unless you’re
> getting low on grass or running
> purebreds.

> I wouldn’t recommend an electric
> fence for an outside fence.
> Electricity will generally turn a
> bull from greener grass. But if
> they are both getting whiffs of a
> willing lady you had best not bank
> on a hot wire keeping them apart.
> They will fight through an
> electric fence and never look
> back. What they’re doing to each
> other hurts a lot worse than a hot
> wire. They will fight through all
> but the best maintained barb wire
> fences. You want plenty of barb
> wire, plenty tight.

> Fetching bulls, having visitors,
> and fixing fence is all part of
> the drill. It’s a royal pain, but
> it comes with the territory. The
> main thing is to get along with
> the neighbors.

> Craig-TX

I am in Texas also. I of course would never think of actually shooting my neighbor's bull, it was a response (made in jest) to an earlier poster. I raise mostly Beefmasters and Brafords (actually "tigerstripes") cows and I wanted to let them raise the black calves since that's what is in such demand --- and I don't live on my ranch so I didn't want to put a Charolais bull in there. My neighbor's Limi is certainly a very fine specimen, much more impressive looking at this point than my young Angus bull. That Limi has an ass-end that would make an elephant envious. Anyway I think he is likely to gone from the scene before too long, since he has also "visited" two of the other surrounding ranches and his owner is pretty exasperated trying to keep him in his own pasture. I agree that being neighborly, working together to repair common fence lines, etc. is of great importance. I think that sooner or later just about all bulls that have a decent libido will go on the prowl and hardly any fence will hold them if they really want to get out
 
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Anonymous

You’re right. We try to abide by a “three strikes and you’re out” rule. If they are fighting through a fence, boys will be boys and there’s not a whole lot you can do but build a rhino-proof fence. But if they start jumping like deer, the third time’s a charm. He goes to the sale or the slaughterhouse. Every once in a while a bull will learn to find the weakest point in the whole fence, jump, land, and then drag all his business on across that top wire. Sounds awful but it seems to be worth it to them. Once they get to jumping it’s like trying to break an old dog of killing chickens. They aren’t earning their keep any more and they’re liable to get hurt. Turn ‘em into money while the getting is good. Hopefully your neighbor has enough sense to know that. In the meantime, your calf crop won’t suffer any.

Craig-TX
 
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Anonymous

> I would shoot the bull then you
> don't have to worry about the damn
> limi.

> Just assuming, You blast the neighbors bull with your trusty side arm. The one you keep strapped to your hip. Would you later take him a package of hamburger as a piece offering, or might that be taken as a sign of weakness?
 
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Anonymous

Some good posts, comments, advice on this topic so far. With livestock getting out of your place (AWOL), especially bulls, there is more at risk than a neighbor's feelings. As such, there is the potential legal liability of the bull hitting a vehicle, damaging other's property, or even escaping into town to run amok and trashing out someone's landscaping. The purebred breeders I deal with all have pipe fences 5.5 to 6' high to contain their bulls in (others have less secure fencing; but, they have a neutral zone between theirs and another person's pasture) their private oasis, but even better, they have enough cows to keep the bulls satisfied. On our place with our registered cattle, we have two 50 x 75 ft pipe & sucker rod pens with loafing sheds that we use to put our bull in when he is servicing a particular female. Otherwise, we have a 6' high, 8 barbwire fence on our highway frontage; and, a 7 barbwire 5.5' fence separating our sub-pastures, with 14' alleyways between. This way, one of our current 3 bulls cannot get close enough to a heifer or cow to really do some serious sniffing. Now...IF one of our bulls got out, and got back safely without doing any damage, he would be confined to one of our secure areas: if he got out again, he would go to the sale barn (wouldn't even want to collect semen from him due to his attitude). He would not otherwise be given a second (or 3rd) chance to get out.
 
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Anonymous

There is also the disease issue to consider. If a bull in Utah is diagnosed with Trich, by law he is put down. Trich can be tested for in bulls, but it is not possible to reliably test a cow. I'd sure check with your neighbor and see if his bull has had any STD tests done this season, or insist he be tested now & you be given a copy of the test results. He could be spreading who knows what between the four pastures/herds.

> Some good posts, comments, advice
> on this topic so far. With
> livestock getting out of your
> place (AWOL), especially bulls,
> there is more at risk than a
> neighbor's feelings. As such,
> there is the potential legal
> liability of the bull hitting a
> vehicle, damaging other's
> property, or even escaping into
> town to run amok and trashing out
> someone's landscaping. The
> purebred breeders I deal with all
> have pipe fences 5.5 to 6' high to
> contain their bulls in (others
> have less secure fencing; but,
> they have a neutral zone between
> theirs and another person's
> pasture) their private oasis, but
> even better, they have enough cows
> to keep the bulls satisfied. On
> our place with our registered
> cattle, we have two 50 x 75 ft
> pipe & sucker rod pens with
> loafing sheds that we use to put
> our bull in when he is servicing a
> particular female. Otherwise, we
> have a 6' high, 8 barbwire fence
> on our highway frontage; and, a 7
> barbwire 5.5' fence separating our
> sub-pastures, with 14' alleyways
> between. This way, one of our
> current 3 bulls cannot get close
> enough to a heifer or cow to
> really do some serious sniffing.
> Now...IF one of our bulls got out,
> and got back safely without doing
> any damage, he would be confined
> to one of our secure areas: if he
> got out again, he would go to the
> sale barn (wouldn't even want to
> collect semen from him due to his
> attitude). He would not otherwise
> be given a second (or 3rd) chance
> to get out.
 
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Anonymous

> I would shoot the bull then you
> don't have to worry about the damn
> limi. Well here is my input. I have sometimes noticed that we my cows are getting ready to calve my bull will jump them. Is my bull just weird ?? I don't know
 
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Anonymous

> Some good posts, comments, advice
> on this topic so far. With
> livestock getting out of your
> place (AWOL), especially bulls,
> there is more at risk than a
> neighbor's feelings. As such,
> there is the potential legal
> liability of the bull hitting a
> vehicle, damaging other's
> property, or even escaping into
> town to run amok and trashing out
> someone's landscaping. The
> purebred breeders I deal with all
> have pipe fences 5.5 to 6' high to
> contain their bulls in (others
> have less secure fencing; but,
> they have a neutral zone between
> theirs and another person's
> pasture) their private oasis, but
> even better, they have enough cows
> to keep the bulls satisfied. On
> our place with our registered
> cattle, we have two 50 x 75 ft
> pipe & sucker rod pens with
> loafing sheds that we use to put
> our bull in when he is servicing a
> particular female. Otherwise, we
> have a 6' high, 8 barbwire fence
> on our highway frontage; and, a 7
> barbwire 5.5' fence separating our
> sub-pastures, with 14' alleyways
> between. This way, one of our
> current 3 bulls cannot get close
> enough to a heifer or cow to
> really do some serious sniffing.
> Now...IF one of our bulls got out,
> and got back safely without doing
> any damage, he would be confined
> to one of our secure areas: if he
> got out again, he would go to the
> sale barn (wouldn't even want to
> collect semen from him due to his
> attitude). He would not otherwise
> be given a second (or 3rd) chance
> to get out.

Here is wah t my grandpa did a long time ago when the neigbors cows kept creshing fences and eating his garden.....He chased them out onto the highway (not much traffic then) a nice county road would suffice.... and then called the police that there were cattle on the road....They were never out agian
 
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Anonymous

You know black power, some things you write are good info.You love your Black Angus cattle,but are you as close minded as you act? And why are you always so angry? I wonder if you are a young know it all, or a very unhappy old fart. I thing if my neighbor bull was a problem I would talk to him. If me and him were both raising commerical mixed cows then prehaps we could just own one Bull and use him together. Looks like getting along with and making friends would be easier than always being anger...But indeed if your are such a hot head , I AM GLAD YOU ARE NOT MY NEIGHBOR...

[email protected]
 
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Anonymous

I have read every post in this thread, very amusing, to say the least, but many good comments.

I would at least check the cow, by ppalpation to see where she is at.

Limi's are horny little farts, and as a male he was challanging you to stay away from the female he was persuing, nothing more than that, that is what nature tells them to do, all bulls should do that if there is a female in heat, and you are trying to sort them off, otherwise you may end up with no calf crop at all.

from the disease perspective, there are many out there to wory about, Trich being the least, cows and bulls can recover from it, only the rare carrier animals are the ones to worry about, I would be more conserned with the spread of Johnes or Bovine Leucosis, which are fatale.

Also I would be interested as to when the last fertility check was done on your bull, that may also be a factor, but if he was young and small, I could understand why he knew to avoid the larger dominant male.

What surprises me is that the Limi is going through the fence, they are more than able to hop it and return home after they finish, I guess you have much better forage than where he lives, or he would go home, I suspect his owner is overstocked.

Just an opinion, not angry, or breed bashing, being a good neighbor is the best pollicy, I am a Limi breeder.

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