Bull ideas for Limflex cows

[rjk]

I've read where breeding two purebreds of different breeds produces an F1 or F2 cross, I can't remember which of those is correct. I have some Limousin and Limflex cows. I seem to remember the article also said that if you take the purebred cross and breed to a purebred of a different breed, you will see the best of the heterosis. I believe the Limousin is Continental and the Angus is English, (feel free to correct me at any time), and I am not sure which breed would give me the most of the hybrid vigor to produce a better calf. I want to keep a lower birth weight since I work a full time job and cannot always be there to assist in birthing issues. What breeds would be best for the third breed, and does that breed have to be a different group? Thanks for the advice.


Thanks,
Rick

 

[Jovid]

I've read where breeding two purebreds of different breeds produces an F1 or F2 cross, I can't remember which of those is correct. I have some Limousin and Limflex cows. I seem to remember the article also said that if you take the purebred cross and breed to a purebred of a different breed, you will see the best of the heterosis. I believe the Limousin is Continental and the Angus is English, (feel free to correct me at any time), and I am not sure which breed would give me the most of the hybrid vigor to produce a better calf. I want to keep a lower birth weight since I work a full time job and cannot always be there to assist in birthing issues. What breeds would be best for the third breed, and does that breed have to be a different group? Thanks for the advice.


Thanks,
Rick

For hybrid vigor and consistency in your calves I would suggest a Red Poll bull.

 

[Frankie]

I've read where breeding two purebreds of different breeds produces an F1 or F2 cross, I can't remember which of those is correct. I have some Limousin and Limflex cows. I seem to remember the article also said that if you take the purebred cross and breed to a purebred of a different breed, you will see the best of the heterosis. I believe the Limousin is Continental and the Angus is English, (feel free to correct me at any time), and I am not sure which breed would give me the most of the hybrid vigor to produce a better calf. I want to keep a lower birth weight since I work a full time job and cannot always be there to assist in birthing issues. What breeds would be best for the third breed, and does that breed have to be a different group? Thanks for the advice.


Thanks,
Rick

Actually, a three way cross of pure breds will give you the highest percentage of heterosis, not necessarily the "best". The Limflex cows should be F1s. I'll post a link to the article that this quote is from. It's a pretty good article on crossbreeding and answers some of your questions. Personally, I'd find a good Angus bull for a herd like yours. You'll then have 3/4 Angus calves out of the Limflex that should have improved carcass quality and F1s out of the straight Limis to put back into your breeding program.

Notice that the F-1 Cow/Terminal calf system results in the highest percent of heterosis expressed in a crossbreeding system with a factor of 1.25 while the straightbred herd is 1.00. This simply means that using the F-1 Cow/ Terminal calf system will result in a 25% increase in production. However, the other factors should be considered before determining which crossbreeding system to use.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/document_an165

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

The Limflex cattle wll not always be F1 crosses. Limflex can be from 25 to 75 precent either way.True F1 Limflex would have to be out of a Fullblood Limi bull or cow. Not many of them out there. If purebred Limousin were used to make the Limflex you are at 60% Angus right off,and maybe closer to 70%. Use the Red Poll,

 

[smoky]

If I am not mistaken, using a Limflex Bull on the Limflex cows will create the F2 cross. I have Balancer cattle and in my breed, there is a mindset by some breeders that 50-50 genetics created by an F1 cross (Gelbvieh x Angus) is less reliable and more variable than that same 50-50 created by an F2 cross (Balancer x Balancer).

I think you need to analyze what your goals are to determine what bull would work best for you. I think if you really like the Limflex cows then use Limflex bulls that meet your breeding goals, therefore, you will have the ability to retain females with the same breed composition from your better cows.

My 2 Cents

Smoky

 

[Stocker Steve]

I have Balancer cattle and in my breed, there is a mindset by some breeders that 50-50 genetics created by an F1 cross (Gelbvieh x Angus) is less reliable and more variable than that same 50-50 created by an F2 cross (Balancer x Balancer).

What is the percentage of rat tail calves with the Gelbvieh F1 vs. the F2 cross?

 

[cowwrangler]

i have a few limiflex cows i put a purebred gelbvieh bull on and they are awful nice calves

 

[Frankie]

The Limflex cattle wll not always be F1 crosses. Limflex can be from 25 to 75 precent either way.True F1 Limflex would have to be out of a Fullblood Limi bull or cow. Not many of them out there. If purebred Limousin were used to make the Limflex you are at 60% Angus right off,and maybe closer to 70%. Use the Red Poll,

Sorry. I didn't realize Limflex cattle were not necessarily F1s. Interesting.

Please take a few minutes and tell us what the Red Poll would do in this situation. Thanks....

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

The Red Poll would give him a 3way cross on his calves. I reckon a Herford would do that to. He might even get some really pretty red calves.

 

[smoky]

I have Balancer cattle and in my breed, there is a mindset by some breeders that 50-50 genetics created by an F1 cross (Gelbvieh x Angus) is less reliable and more variable than that same 50-50 created by an F2 cross (Balancer x Balancer).

What is the percentage of rat tail calves with the Gelbvieh F1 vs. the F2 cross?

I'm afraid I don't follow the question. I can tell you that I'm AI'ing my Gelbvieh cows to Angus, My Balancers to Balancers and my low or no percentage Gelbvieh to Gelbvieh. Seems to be working out as most of my calves are pretty good, with a rough one every now and again along with a few very top end ones also.

If you care to elaborate on your comment I'll try my best to answer it.

Smoky

 

[rjk]

I would like to thank all of you for your replies. Had first calf of year, registered limflex, took to vet to pull, because of too much time. Calf pulled without a lot of effort, but we broke both back legs, so we put it down. Heifer is approx 30 months old, and bull calf weighed 90 lbs. Too much calf, but was from a limousin bull with a 2.4 bw epd, and a 76# bw. Have been told a lot of calves this year are big, (we had 2 years of 15 to 20 inches of rainfall per year more than our normal). We had lots of clover last year and never really had the poor forage when weather was hot, so forage quality was good.

I am looking at lbw angus bulls and have been leaning to having registered and commercial limflex.

Thanks again for your advice.

Rick