Bull Growth

[Backbone Ranch]

Our bull just hit two years old this spring as well. He really thickened through the hind quarter, and he has muscled up. I have attached a yearling picture and a picture of him a year later.
Yearling: 903 lbs

2 years: 1,505 lbs and frame score 3

I think that when bulls hit two years old, many of them begin to grow out of the "teenage" stage. They are becoming more and more like their mature phenotype. It is much easier to judge a two year old bull than a yearling. Just my opinion.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I agree. I don't think they look their best until their 2 year old year. Especially larger framed breeds like my Brangus. I have discussed this with other Brangus breeders. They are "like a teenager." Grow up, then grow out and start to take shape.
I think that you can assess basic structure in a yearling. But they definitely are not yet all the bull that they are going to be.

 

[ANAZAZI]

At the risk of repeating myself like a parrot: it does not matter much how the bull looks when he is two, three or four. What matters is what the bull look like (and weigh) at the age when his brothers and his sons go on the rail/slaughterhouse/abbatoir. When bulls grow out they look much better than the "teen bulls"; however that does not matter much, does it? :2cents:

 

[branguscowgirl]

At the risk of repeating myself like a parrot: it does not matter much how the bull looks when he is two, three or four. What matters is what the bull look like (and weigh) at the age when his brothers and his sons go on the rail/slaughterhouse/abbatoir. When bulls grow out they look much better than the "teen bulls"; however that does not matter much, does it? :2cents:

I agree. It does not really matter, except for those looking for a "good looking bull" to put in their pasture.
We do see plenty of people ruthlessly knocking "the look" of bulls on this forum. ;-)

 

[SPH]

Seems that a bull usually hits his full maturation around 2-3 years old. Nothing wrong with a bull that has good natural muscling and isn't fat, that's how they should look. Seen a lot of show and sale bulls lately carrying way too much condition that just is not practical for having a sound breeding bull that will have longevity.

This is our herd bull last fall probably around the time we weaned calves. He's not quite 3 1/2 years in this photo and probably weighing somewhere around 1900. He just got hay and 1 feeding a day of some corn and oats feed ration over the winter so we didn't push him on feed by any means and when we took him in for his BSE this spring he was around 2170 which is the heaviest he's ever been since we've owned him and he's not fat by any means. He was probably weighing around 1600-1700 as a 2 year old I believe and he's had to go through 2 summers of drought these past 2 summers in his 2nd and 3rd breeding seasons so he hasn't been pampered by any means.

Another example, this is a 2 year old bull we raised and used as a yearling last year. He was probably around 1600 as a yearling in the first picture last fall after he worked cleanup with about 7 females and was getting 2 feedings a day trying to get some volume back on him after he thinned out over the summer. We sold him late last year and the 2nd picture is from the other week as a 2 year old after his new owner put him on an aggressive feed ration with their other bulls and he's still pretty trim but has obviously filled out nicely and has a lot of natural muscling and would guess he's maybe around 1900 now. Had he gone on a sale we were possibly going to consign him to we had concerns that he'd look "thin" compared to a lot of the bulls consignors bring where some of the 2 year olds are topping 2000 because they are carrying too much fat. Some guys will say "fat sells" but in a practical sense too fat for bulls and cows is not a way to create ideal fertility conditions.

Fall (probably somewhere around 18-20 months old?)

Spring (he's not quite 27 months old in this one)

 

[branguscowgirl]

SPH those are some very nice examples! :clap:

 

[Gators Rule]

At the risk of repeating myself like a parrot: it does not matter much how the bull looks when he is two, three or four. What matters is what the bull look like (and weigh) at the age when his brothers and his sons go on the rail/slaughterhouse/abbatoir. When bulls grow out they look much better than the "teen bulls"; however that does not matter much, does it? :2cents:

Wise words, and I totally agree. If it takes a bull 2 to 4 years old to look great, then he's a waste of time. If I'm going to sell his sons/daughters at one year old, then I want to know what they are going to look like on sale day...which is generally done by looking at their sire when he was one year old.

 

[branguscowgirl]

At the risk of repeating myself like a parrot: it does not matter much how the bull looks when he is two, three or four. What matters is what the bull look like (and weigh) at the age when his brothers and his sons go on the rail/slaughterhouse/abbatoir. When bulls grow out they look much better than the "teen bulls"; however that does not matter much, does it? :2cents:

Wise words, and I totally agree. If it takes a bull 2 to 4 years old to look great, then he's a waste of time. If I'm going to sell his sons/daughters at one year old, then I want to know what they are going to look like on sale day...which is generally done by looking at their sire when he was one year old.

True but you need to remember if you grow them too fast you are risking structural soundness later. Those "brothers and sons" going on the rail don't have to stay sound for very long. The retained bull does not only have to work for a living but stay sound doing it for a longer period of time. Therefor fast excessive growth is not good for long term function. IMHO there is too much emphasize placed on early growth in these breeding bulls. I am not saying that they don't need to have "good growth", I am saying that I frown upon "excessive growth" in the first 2 years.

 

[John Baker]

There is an old saying that goes something like this:

It's not what's under the hide that counts, it's what's in his balls that really counts.
And you lose half of that when he mounts a cow.

All are very nice looking bulls and on the right cows you should have some nice looking calves.
John

 

[Gators Rule]

True, but I don't feed or push bulls at any age, nor do I buy them from people who do so. I don't want a bull that I have to push as a calf to reach a lofty weight/size, because I'm not going to be pushing their babies, other than with grass, hay, mineral and molasses (in winter). Granted, there is a big difference in supplementing and pushing though.

 

[John Baker]

FYI, from NZ



Easy on eye bulls sell well
JILL GALLOWAY
http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standar ... -sell-well

All 33 bulls up for auction at the annual angus bull sale at Marton's Pine Park sold yesterday, with the highest price of $9000 paid for Pine Park H185, a rising two-year-old.
Buyers looked at statistics such as rib eye, rump as well as birth and growth rates, but they also wanted a bull that looked good and had the presence of a sire.
A combination of statistics and eye appeal encouraged some of the 80 people at the annual sale to bid.
Pine Park stud owner Edward Sherriff said it was a good line-up with the average price at $5021. He said all 33 bulls sold because they were a solid lineup, had great temperament and were long-lived.
One came from a cow which had produced ten calves in her lifetime.

Cheviot breeders Greg and Debbie Chamberlain are still pinching themselves after their hereford bull Capethorne Panda 1251 sold for $35,000 at the AgInnovation event in Fielding.

Pic at source.

Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming ... t-for-pair

 

[chippie]

We do see plenty of people ruthlessly knocking "the look" of bulls on this forum. ;-)

Not really. Good bulls are recognized and appreciated. You have only been on this board since January 03, 2013 - 1 1/2 years.
Most all of the men and women who have been on here for years are good cattlemen and women. Just because they do not sugar coat their comments, does not mean that they don't know what they are talking about. If a person can not recognize an animal's faults and short comings, chances are he or she will continue breeding and buying animals with the same faults and will not be improving his or her herd.

Our 4-H club used to put on a horse judging contest as a fundraiser. One ranch brought mares for one of the halter classes. The horses looked so much alike, they all had the same faults and conformation. The officials had to give the class cuts of 1-1-1. There was no way to place the class and the faults were some bad ones.
The ranch had the same breeding program for years, and the mares that they kept back perpetuated the structural flaws.

Take time to actually look at the animals that are so ruthlessly knocking and maybe you can see what folks are talking about. You might learn something.

 

[branguscowgirl]

Chippie the length of time on this board has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Being on here does not make anyone an expert at judging bulls, nor does it make them an imbosol either. There are varying levels of expertise on and off this board. So keep that crap to yourself.

As for listening and learning something. I am a very attentive and open minded person. I am continuously learning. And I enjoy learning. You have no idea who I am or what my background is.
Go back and read my comment. Did I once say anything about the "knowledge" of anyone? Did I once say anything about "not recognizing a good bull"?
You are barking up the wrong tree here, so let it go. :tiphat:
I will not debat and play word games with you. I am entitle to my opinion just as you are.
You do not have to "sugar coat" a comment in order to be respectful of others tastes.

 

[Gators Rule]

:???:

 

[cowgirl8]

A lot of the posters in this forum have the Mandelbaum Mandelbaum Mandelbaum syndrome....Seems the time spent in this forum means they are better than everyone. If someone has something to add, its, "You think you're better than us."
Really its the oddest thing i've ever come across on the internet. Time in this forum means nothing other than maybe a new person here has spent the time you have behind a computer with cattle..lol

 

[highgrit]

I'm sure you know first hand what your talking about. With only a 9.6 average posts per day, your practicing what you preach.

 

[cowgirl8]

Funny you should say that, when i post its either dark out or i'm sitting in the pasture on my phone thanks to they guys who invented the smart phone..

 

[branguscowgirl]

Sorry I even replied, lets not mess up another good thread with disagreements........... :?
My only point is there are "smart cattlemen and women" everywhere that we can learn from. And that is why I am here. But I also have learned outside of this forum from some very good people too. Opinions can be different, without someone being wrong or inferior. :bang:

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Chippie the length of time on this board has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Being on here does not make anyone an expert at judging bulls, nor does it make them an imbosol either. There are varying levels of expertise on and off this board. So keep that crap to yourself.

As for listening and learning something. I am a very attentive and open minded person. I am continuously learning. And I enjoy learning. You have no idea who I am or what my background is.
Go back and read my comment. Did I once say anything about the "knowledge" of anyone? Did I once say anything about "not recognizing a good bull"?
You are barking up the wrong tree here, so let it go. :tiphat:
I will not debat and play word games with you. I am entitle to my opinion just as you are.
You do not have to "sugar coat" a comment in order to be respectful of others tastes.

In all due respect BCG, I believe Chippie was making reference to your assessment of how animals are critiqued here on CT and not commenting on your skill or ability at judging stock.

I may be wrong.

 

[chippie]

Exactly Tennessee Tuxedo.
Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say. I was not referring to branguscowgirl's knowledge or animals.