Bull Evaluations TNT Jump start

[farmerD44]

We have 4 calves on the way from Jump Start in March. one is coming in a heifer. I will have to wait till then to give an evaluation.

One of the big shot beef "specialists" from select sires claims he is one of the greatest simmental bulls they have ever bought. Calves come out real small and easy and grow like weeds and very thick. we had a few calves from CCR Vision the last couple years and they sure fit the same discription as this.

 

[glacierridge]

I'm a Semex girl myself :nod: Personally I like the gold & white simmis - maybe because that is what most have around here
No offense to any black Simmy breeders on here

I miss those. The solids are okay, but I miss the pretty patterns.

 

[glacierridge]

Evaluate this Bull

Never in all the time that I've been AI'ing have I choosen a bull based solely on numbers. I prefer to see daughters of the bull or better yet the bull himself his dam, grand-dam, grand-daughters should he have any.
Personally if I was to choose a black simmental I would be more intestered in
7SM46 Majestic

http://www.selectsires.com/beef/directo ... jestic.pdf
7SM49Jump Start

Link to Select Sires Beef page for those who are interested
http://www.selectsires.com/beef/directo ... _2008.aspx

Majestic is fair as far as his EPDs, API and TI; but his individual performance is in the toilet starting with a 96 lb birth weight unless you are breeeding him to holsteins.His frame score is 6.5 which is unaccepatable these days of feed efficiency etc.. His MM is high, which translates to a heifer that carries a lot of frame and produces too much milk making her a huge user on resources.. She will mature as a 1500+ lb cow who will eat 45 lbs of hay per day and/ or forage and will probably produce the same sized calf as a frame score 5.5 cow and she will produce steer calves that will be framey with low feed efficiency combined with a lager frame and more time spent in the feed yard with a much heavier finishing weight-- this is your basic loose your you know what cow. Then again Majestic is out of GW Lucky Dice -- and why would you breed to this turd when you could just breed your cows to Lucky Dice?

He is not a turd. We've had a few calves from him already and just because is live birth weight was 92 his calves weren't like that. They have all been in nice proportion to their dam's size. His calves have impressive growth, his oldest son at our farm is going for slaughter next month at 15 months old, very nice steer!!
We have two daughters by him, feminine, strong legs, young yet but look promising. We have a beautiful silver daughter from a Charolais dam will be mated to Grandmaster late next summer. I'm excited to see what the outcome may be.

 

[3waycross]

So instead you live by the EPD and breed your cows to something that looks like an average steer!.................and BTW lay off of Doc!

 

[Gators Rule]

It is just as impossible to evaluate a bull or a cow or any other head of livestock without a visual appraisal available as it was to buy a "mail-order bride" in the 'olden days'! Would you consider buying, or purchasing a bull that you have never seen??

DOC HARRIS

Maybe with a little bit more function on your part you could have looked at who owned him and go look at his picture online? It isn't that difficult to go online and look at this Bull.. Surely I don't have to do all the work for you? Instead of findng fault with my post why can't you stay on topic and evaluate this Bull based on his traits? It is fairly evident that you have not ever bought a single straw of semen in your life and have no idea of how to evaluate a bull based on Genotype and Phenotype. maybe you do have the ability to evaluate a Bull -- I look forward to it--- but I have an idea you will just come back and complain........

T

Seriously?

I just reread the dates....from 2009. BUT, I also noticed someone looks familiar...LOL

 

[gizmom]

I don't know who the heck you are but over the years I have read Doc's post and he has forgotten more than you know. As to your post I won't be commenting on any of them until you learn to show some respect.

Gizmom

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Some of you folks need to look at the date of the OP. Old tophat has not been on CT as 4ctophand in a few years.

 

[glacierridge]

Yeah, sorry about the old topic...
I was just using the search looking for interesting posts on bulls that interest me...

At least it's still a relevant bull that's available?

Not like Black Knight U2 or Black Zinger. Lol

 

[3waycross]

So instead you live by the EPD and breed your cows to something that looks like an average steer!.................and BTW lay off of Doc!

 

[glacierridge]

It is just as impossible to evaluate a bull or a cow or any other head of livestock without a visual appraisal available as it was to buy a "mail-order bride" in the 'olden days'! Would you consider buying, or purchasing a bull that you have never seen??

DOC HARRIS

Sometimes it happens. I prefer to see the bull, parents and progeny too if possible.
We like to breed for longer bodied cattle (more steaks lol)
And nothing with a super deep rib. For our program they grow well enough without a big rib. It's mostly hamburger anyway. We actually find in our crossbred herd the "sawed off" short bodied calves take longer to put muscle on and have a poorer yield. When you sell most of your stock by hanging weight, you don't like a loose ribbed lower yielding calf.
Probably why we like the BB mixed into the simmys... brings us what we like for our niche.

I say it's nice to have a visual, but I like the EPD to back it up.

 

[KNERSIE]

:help: :secret:

 

[glacierridge]

Hook's Silver heifer
approx 3 1/2 months old
Oh, and let me add that this 92# BW sire had a daughter that was not much more than 50 pounds dripping wet when she was born, out of a 1400# dam

Sorry the pic quality isn't super, we haven't gotten studio lighting in the barn yet :tiphat:

 

[cattleman99]

Won't comment much on Jump Start other than to say if that works for you keep using it.

As for Majestic I have a lot of experience with him. My Dad used him heavily for 2 years in the heifer pen. Dad is getting up there in years and is at the stage where whenever he has issues calving he calls me. So I told him a few years ago to start using easier calving bulls on the first calf heifers as I don't particularly like getting up in the middle of the night when it's -25C and driving over to his place in a cold truck to calve a heifer. He had between 29 Majestic calves and we only assisted one heifer with twins that were all mixed up. Most of the calves were in the 80-90 lb range which is small around here (I looked back at his calving books and he had 2 under 80 (the twins were 74 and 78) and the largest was 96 but that cow hasn't had a calf under 105 lbs since. Basically what I'm saying is if your heifer can't calve Majestic you need to get rid of the heifer. Dad's AI guy recommended him.

The calves had lots of vigor too. He only ever kept one bull calf which got sold to a neighbour to use in the heifer pen and worked well there. The calves weaned a good 50-75lbs lighter than the rest of the cowherd and didn't have enough grow or capacity for our liking. Definately a heifer approved bull and we would use him again if we could get more as I don't believe it's available in Canada anymore.

 

[glacierridge]

Won't comment much on Jump Start other than to say if that works for you keep using it.

As for Majestic I have a lot of experience with him. My Dad used him heavily for 2 years in the heifer pen. Dad is getting up there in years and is at the stage where whenever he has issues calving he calls me. So I told him a few years ago to start using easier calving bulls on the first calf heifers as I don't particularly like getting up in the middle of the night when it's -25C and driving over to his place in a cold truck to calve a heifer. He had between 29 Majestic calves and we only assisted one heifer with twins that were all mixed up. Most of the calves were in the 80-90 lb range which is small around here (I looked back at his calving books and he had 2 under 80 (the twins were 74 and 78) and the largest was 96 but that cow hasn't had a calf under 105 lbs since. Basically what I'm saying is if your heifer can't calve Majestic you need to get rid of the heifer. Dad's AI guy recommended him.

The calves had lots of vigor too. He only ever kept one bull calf which got sold to a neighbour to use in the heifer pen and worked well there. The calves weaned a good 50-75lbs lighter than the rest of the cowherd and didn't have enough grow or capacity for our liking. Definately a heifer approved bull and we would use him again if we could get more as I don't believe it's available in Canada anymore.

I'm sorry that you can't get a hold of him anymore. I'm glad that you have had good luck with him for calving, since you have a bigger sampling to go off of. I'm sorry that you are no longer able to get him, if I could help you out I would. I think that we have gotten good results for growth on his calves because of some of the breeds we use in the herd for hybrid vigor.
Either way, I agree. Nice calving ease bull. Calves proportionate to their mothers and pretty streamlined. Works for me. Lol