Bull Disaster

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Aaron":1copjmz3 said:
Incompetence abounds. Have never left the cattle for more than a day at a time, ever. People offer to look after things, but I have never went there. Have looked after other people's places while they were gone, and even checking multiple times a day, cattle still died. The last person I did it for left it for me in the peak of calving season, so I ended up losing one calf out of a bunch of live ones and got an earful for it. So I don't babysit anymore. If you can't be there to look after cattle 365, get rid of them. You don't deserve them. Best to go grain farming, then you can take lots of vacations.

Neighbor left for 2 weeks, a week and half ago. Thankfully he was smart enough to turn out 150 yearlings to pasture rather than continue to drylot them on a single water bowl and little feed. Otherwise there would have been lots of dead ones there as well. But he is an incompetent fool all the way around.

Whether it is right or wrong makes no difference to me. I have a hard time leaving my cows. It is a personal decision and not something others can dictate to you.

In my opinion a cow is not as dumb as Hook describes. I will speculate that few people in this nation spend more time in the company of cows than I do. I cannot prove that, but I have been retired for four years come Sept 1. In those four years, I have been away all day for only 10 days. I frequently just walk along with them. It is not that I like them better than people, it is simply that I enjoy them more than people. :lol:

Hook: Maybe they are dumb but they out-smarted you, reference: That wasn't going to happen today. ;-)
 
This is a very unfortunate deal. The bull owner should have made arrangements with a responsible person for the water to be checked multiple times each day, especially in hot weather, especially if there was only one waterer for 40 bulls.

40 bulls in dry lot would be constantly looking for trouble. Waterer, fences, other bulls, you name it are going to get broken.

I can relate. Today our co-op water system is down with a major leak. I'm no good at working, but I volunteered to make a trip to the big city for repairs. Backhoe guy is coming soon to see what we need. Not sure if it's the 4" main line or 2" line that branches off of it.

Fortunately the dams and water holes here are full so some minor pasture adjustments can be made to ensure cattle have water. We would all be in a major bind if there was no surface water.

For household use, I'm now running on my old well that pumps black water at times. Gave it a strong dose of bleach this morning so that should help clear it up some.

Don't want to wash dishes or clothes in it for a while, but it will do to flush the toilet. Kinda miss the old outhouse at times. :nod:
 
this thread is an example of what can happen if you dont watch or leave your farm unattended for any length of time.i posted about things like this happening in another thread here.that was over $120,000 kick in the teeth.alot of people couldnt absorb that kind of a loss.
 
If I leave and have animals penned I will put a ball in the tank too. I also give the person checking the cattle the name and number of the well man, a plumber and an electrician along with some backup help he can call. I started using the ball when the guy I had checking the cows didn't bother to look in the tank to see if there was water he just looked to see if the cows were still penned. When I got home I had a mess on my hands. Didn't lose any cattle but it sure was a fight around the water trough when the water started flowing again. Sounds to me like someone had their head up their azz like my guy did. You don't leave penned cattle with only one source of water unattended to.
 
With 1500 cows he could sell 2-5% of the herd and lease a bunch of new bulls, grow his own replacements for next year and not miss to much of a beat.
 
Aaron, I am sure you weren't trying to start an argument but by your standards, I would be a horrible person. We check on our cows 2 times. That is 2 times a year. Once to wean and doctor and the other to cull for market.
 
WalnutCrest":32dkuqez said:
With 1500 cows he could sell 2-5% of the herd and lease a bunch of new bulls, grow his own replacements for next year and not miss to much of a beat.

A loss is a loss, is a loss, is a loss.... no matter how you slice it or how big your operation is.

I'd be devastated emotionally myself. I can't stand to see our cattle suffer and to know I was even indirectly responsible for that many deaths in such a needless fashion would really tear me up.

I honestly often question if I've got the stomach for the cattle biz but I do truly love working with and around the animals.
 
greybeard":2mmauyww said:
Just left my place for 4 days but not untill I arranged for 3 different people to check on things. From the # of tire tracks on my road, I'd say they each did and one of them even put a new latch on a creep feeder cover.

Water is never a problem here--the placed by design is crisscrossed with canals that stay filled from the big pond--even in 2011's drought. I do keep plastic and steel water tanks filled too, but that's just so they don't have to walk as far.

Since I've never really worried about dehydration and then sudden over hydration, what is the physiological process that causes death after ingesting a lot of water?

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/toxicol ... icity.html
 
melking":2q9w8qmy said:
Aaron, I am sure you weren't trying to start an argument but by your standards, I would be a horrible person. We check on our cows 2 times. That is 2 times a year. Once to wean and doctor and the other to cull for market.

The original post mentioned a bull pen. Big difference in expecting an animal to fend for itself when it has free roam and access to other sources of water versus animals confined to a pen and dependent solely on you for its needs. That would be about like locking a bird dog in a pen and expecting it to be alive come hunting season.
 
Commercialfarmer":3djkjjmz said:
greybeard":3djkjjmz said:
Just left my place for 4 days but not untill I arranged for 3 different people to check on things. From the # of tire tracks on my road, I'd say they each did and one of them even put a new latch on a creep feeder cover.

Water is never a problem here--the placed by design is crisscrossed with canals that stay filled from the big pond--even in 2011's drought. I do keep plastic and steel water tanks filled too, but that's just so they don't have to walk as far.

Since I've never really worried about dehydration and then sudden over hydration, what is the physiological process that causes death after ingesting a lot of water?

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/toxicol ... icity.html

I actually didn't see a great answer in that link. With water deprivation, the sodium concentration in the neurons increases dangerously high so that when water is re-introduced rapidly there is a significant difference in ion concentration of sodium between the cells and the fluid outside of the cells. Since a gradient in ions will drive water one way or the other to make a solution that is equal concentration (when the barrier is permeable to water but not the ions), the water crosses the cell barrier at too high of a rate causing damage to the cells.
 
Commercialfarmer":p970b82x said:
greybeard":p970b82x said:
Just left my place for 4 days but not untill I arranged for 3 different people to check on things. From the # of tire tracks on my road, I'd say they each did and one of them even put a new latch on a creep feeder cover.

Water is never a problem here--the placed by design is crisscrossed with canals that stay filled from the big pond--even in 2011's drought. I do keep plastic and steel water tanks filled too, but that's just so they don't have to walk as far.

Since I've never really worried about dehydration and then sudden over hydration, what is the physiological process that causes death after ingesting a lot of water?

http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/toxicol ... icity.html
Thanks. And thanks for the more detailed explanation, tho some of it was 'above my learnin'.
I found this interesting too--especially the prognosis for recovery. From the link, more than 1/2 would still be expected to die regardless of how the water was re-introduced after not having any for that length of time.

Treatment
There is no specific treatment for salt poisoning. Immediate removal of offending feed or water is imperative. Fresh water must be provided to all animals, initially in small amounts at frequent intervals to avoid exacerbation of clinical signs. On a herd basis with large animals, water intake should be limited to 0.5% of body weight at hourly intervals until normal hydration is accomplished, usually taking several days. Severely affected animals can be given water via stomach tube. The mortality rate may be >50% in affected animals regardless of treatment.
That's .5%--not 5% of the bull's weight. If the bull weighed 1500 lbs, that means only 7.5 lbs of water would be prudent to be made available to start with--which equals less than 1 gal. (IF my math is correct)

For all affected animals, the treatment should slowly return the animal to normal water and electrolyte balance over 2–3 days. Quickly lowering the serum sodium concentration will increase the osmotic gradient between the serum and the brain, with water following the gradient into the brain and increasing the likelihood of severe cerebral edema.

I'll have to consider this when feeding 2:1 or 3:1 range meal next winter--never gave it much thought before, tho my cattle are never without plenty of water.
 
TennesseeTuxedo":ssl1cwiq said:
WalnutCrest":ssl1cwiq said:
With 1500 cows he could sell 2-5% of the herd and lease a bunch of new bulls, grow his own replacements for next year and not miss to much of a beat.

A loss is a loss, is a loss, is a loss.... no matter how you slice it or how big your operation is.

I'd be devastated emotionally myself. I can't stand to see our cattle suffer and to know I was even indirectly responsible for that many deaths in such a needless fashion would really tear me up.

I honestly often question if I've got the stomach for the cattle biz but I do truly love working with and around the animals.

I'm not minimizing what was probably a several hundred thousand dollar loss.

It's not crippling. He can recover financially, and do so moderately quickly.

I'd be torn up about the loss, too.
 

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