Bull calves and birth weight ???

[hillsdown]

Thanks for all of your replies. I received a catalog where the lowest BW was 90 lbs and the highest was 107 and it got me wondering ....BTW none of them were AI progeny either..

Knersie I like to use one of my own bulls for clean up if at all possible..I have not brought in anything new since 05 and we have been ai'ng as many as possible but as the years go by they tend to get related one way or another..I will have to bite the bullet next spring and buy another bull as the five cows I was depending on for a new one to retain for myself,, 4 had heifers and one had twins.. :?

We started AI'ing yesterday and are doing 4 more today that were in heat so hopefully I will get one to choose from for my '11 herd..That seems like such a long ways away but I know it will be here before I know it.. :cowboy:

Thanks again everyone.. :tiphat:

 

[cowman30]

I utilize embryo transfer hillsdown as well as AI plus natural service with my bulls to clean up the ai and embryo transfers. We will be doing another round of 10 et calves april 4.

 

[mnmtranching]

I'm really interested that with all the easy calving bulls available today some are still old school, save that 100 pound bull calf. Hard births will kill more calves then all the diseases put together.

 

[SRBeef]

We started AI'ing yesterday and are doing 4 more today that were in heat so hopefully I will get one to choose from for my '11 herd..That seems like such a long ways away but I know it will be here before I know it.

As a "beginner" in cattle that is one of the things that really strikes me about this business...you have to have a long-term view of things!

Cattle are just not for the immediate gratification/instant feedback crowd. Maybe that's one of the things I like about cattle - lots to look forward to! Good luck with your 2011 bull!

Let's see its March 29, 2009 today, I think....

 

[redcowsrule33]

I'm really interested that with all the easy calving bulls available today some are still old school, save that 100 pound bull calf. Hard births will kill more calves then all the diseases put together.

I agree that oversized calves can cause dystocia, but I have helped guys pull a lot of 80-90# calves and seen alot of 110# calves slide right out. There is more to it than just birthweight. When I was starting out with purebreds I had a breeder (40+ years in the business) tell me to baby your heifers and challenge your cows. I a lot of respects he is right - I have some animals that are several generations of high CE/lowBW and I would like to see more structure to them. I won't use bulls with extreme BW or CED issues. But I won't use a bull any more that has maternal CE problems, either, because the cow has as much to do with it as the bull in many cases. Do many of you do pelvic measurements on your heifers or at least palpate them during the selection process?

 

[Aaron]

I'm really interested that with all the easy calving bulls available today some are still old school, save that 100 pound bull calf. Hard births will kill more calves then all the diseases put together.

I agree that oversized calves can cause dystocia, but I have helped guys pull a lot of 80-90# calves and seen alot of 110# calves slide right out. There is more to it than just birthweight. When I was starting out with purebreds I had a breeder (40+ years in the business) tell me to baby your heifers and challenge your cows. I a lot of respects he is right - I have some animals that are several generations of high CE/lowBW and I would like to see more structure to them. I won't use bulls with extreme BW or CED issues. But I won't use a bull any more that has maternal CE problems, either, because the cow has as much to do with it as the bull in many cases. Do many of you do pelvic measurements on your heifers or at least palpate them during the selection process?

It sounds like mnm has experience with cows with small pelvic areas. Adequate to large pelvic areas can easily handle 100+ lb calves. I have never lost one to being too big. Lost one off a heifer...110 lbs..but it was a breech and she was in the bush. So couldn't help her. She had it by herself though. Regular occurrence for our heifers to have 100 lbers...no problems. Cows are expected to handle anything up to 120 -130 lbs. Largest calf ever was 140 lbs...and the old girl had it. I sure do like buying bulls from breeders who take pelvic measurements along with all other things when selling bulls.

To emphasize the importance of pelvic area measurements, I buy bulls from the same Hereford breeder as the largest cow/calf operation in Canada does (Douglas Lake Ranch ~ 7000 mother cows). Douglas Lake Ranch won't buy a bull of any kind, from any operation, unless they know his pelvic area. The breeder that we both buy from is one of the very last in the country that still does pelvic measurements. :cowboy:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

And, actually, some of the breeds are discussing DROPPING the BIRTH WEIGHT EPD, because the CALVING EASE EPD is much more significant. It already factors in the BW, along with other factors.
But, of course, mnm probably doesn't know how to read EPD's - or better yet, doesn't think they are worth the paper they are written on. Excuse me, I shouldn't pick on mnm. He is a good multiplier of cattle. He has "purebred" cows bred to "purebred" bulls of another breed, utilizing crossbreeding - which is a great program for the commercial breeder. We can't teach him anything because he knows all there is to know about cattle.

 

[Brandonm22]

Knersie, most of the registered Angus cattle in the U.S. are the result of A.I. We have an Angus breeder on every corner it seems. They registered more ET calves last year than most breeds registered total. A heifer sired by one of the stud's heavy hitters brings more money at a registered sale than one sired by a local breeder's bull. I have seen it time after time. The other Angus breeders are buying the pedigree that they want.