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jaydill

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Ryan":xin3kc49 said:
I do not think that color should come into play at all. It is impossible to predict color. For example, two beautifully spotted animals can easily produce a solid red or solid white animal; or two black or black and white animals can produce brown and white. So, penalizing an animal for its color makes no sense at all, since it cannot be controlled or influenced by selection, just randomness.

I do see your points on horns. However, all longhorns have them. And, since there is variance between every longhorn, I think that in the show ring it is possible to judge and place longhorns with little to no emphasis on the horns.

Don't get me wrong. I am all for horns. However, I feel that selecting for horns over anything related to the production or growth of the animal is doing an injustice to the animal, and I would only be hurting the animal and not helping it.
Horns and color were the distinguishing characteristic of the original Texas Longhorn. Now while you're right about having two spotted animals possibly produce a solid, of course that's possible, I don't doubt it. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just when you get into breeding only for solids that you run the risk of beginning the de-preservation of the breed.

As far as the horn thing goes...it's like I said before. The horns are an important part of the breed. I'm not saying that you should select an animal that has less potential over an animal that has more potential just because of the horn size, but the horns should be an important part of the judging process. You have to remember (in the breeding classes) that the judges are supposed to be judging to that breed's specific characteristics. Not as a heifer or bull overall. In that case, if you start seeing animals that display characteristics of another breed, they should be docked for it. If the judges didn't do that and started just judging to one ideal image of a heifer or bull, you'll eventually end up with angus registered as longhorns if you get what I mean.
 

jaydill

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Don't get me wrong Ryan, you've got good calves. I've seen a couple that exhibited less Longhorn characteristics than I'd have liked to see but your herd is nice. I'm just speaking in general.
 

Ryan

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jaydill":2mk1ud45 said:
Horns and color were the distinguishing characteristic of the original Texas Longhorn. Now while you're right about having two spotted animals possibly produce a solid, of course that's possible, I don't doubt it. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just when you get into breeding only for solids that you run the risk of beginning the de-preservation of the breed.

I completely agree with you. The only people I know of that are/were actively selecting for solid longhorns, are used for crossbreeding. I do not know of any longhorn breeders that do not want more exciting colors. I was just stating that solids should not be discounted as color is extremely hard to influence.

As far as the horn thing goes...it's like I said before. The horns are an important part of the breed. I'm not saying that you should select an animal that has less potential over an animal that has more potential just because of the horn size, but the horns should be an important part of the judging process. You have to remember (in the breeding classes) that the judges are supposed to be judging to that breed's specific characteristics. Not as a heifer or bull overall. In that case, if you start seeing animals that display characteristics of another breed, they should be docked for it. If the judges didn't do that and started just judging to one ideal image of a heifer or bull, you'll eventually end up with angus registered as longhorns if you get what I mean.

I agree that horns are important to the breed's character and image. But, like you said, these animals are being judged in breeding classes. I know that horns are part of the breed, but with the variation in base size, shape, and length, selecting for horns would only be the judges opinion. One judge could like twisty horns, one could like flat horns, etc... Since they are in a breeding class, and horns have no influence on breeding then, to me, it only seems logical that a small amount of influence should be placed on horns.
 

jaydill

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Ryan":3nsscx9i said:
I know that horns are part of the breed, but with the variation in base size, shape, and length, selecting for horns would only be the judges opinion. One judge could like twisty horns, one could like flat horns, etc...
You do have a point there.

I do have a question though, just curious. Has one of your longhorns ever gone after you with those things? Or are they pretty docile with you?
 

Ryan

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jaydill":3ocbos2f said:
Ryan":3ocbos2f said:
I know that horns are part of the breed, but with the variation in base size, shape, and length, selecting for horns would only be the judges opinion. One judge could like twisty horns, one could like flat horns, etc...
You do have a point there.

I do have a question though, just curious. Has one of your longhorns ever gone after you with those things? Or are they pretty docile with you?

since i have been showing for nearly 18 years, I have only had 1 animal ever come after me. However, he did not come after me with his horns. Just ducked his head and came after me like you see the bulls go after the clowns in the rodeos. Needless to say, he immediately grew wheels. They are a surprisingly docile breed. For example, at Ft. Worth last week in the youth show there were ~320 entries and 98 youth exhibitors. Must be pretty docile to have that many kids and calves all together at one time.
 

jaydill

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Nice. Was just curious about it. I'm guessin it was pretty intimidating? Was it not broke yet? Or just a li'l crazy about the head?
 

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jaydill":1hs1tzs5 said:
Nice. Was just curious about it. I'm guessin it was pretty intimidating? Was it not broke yet? Or just a li'l crazy about the head?

We were using a bull of a friend and somtimes they have their moments. They like to play and love affection. Ours will only butt if they feel threatened or if they want the feed bucket quicker, they like to rush you along. The bull we borrowed likes to play with troughs or empty plastic buskets or barrells. He is a big baby and funny to watch when he plays, like an overgrown kid. Some do get out of control like all breeds but that is the sad part. Try one as a pet (steer preferebly or cow) you will be happy in the end :lol: , no pun intended.
 

Ryan

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jaydill":2upobbav said:
Nice. Was just curious about it. I'm guessin it was pretty intimidating? Was it not broke yet? Or just a li'l crazy about the head?

Kind of a long story, but here ya go:

He was about 3 or 4 weeks off mom, pretty well halter broke. But we were in denton in august and had been showing all day. This was in the last class of the day, grand champion youth bull. Those are definantly not an exuses for his behavior. I was the 3rd one he came after. He ducked his head and did a little lunge at my sister, she didn't get hit, but she handed him off to a guy that is quite a bit bigger than my sis. The bull ducks his head at the new guy, and what does he do??? Kicks the bull in the nose, smart guy :roll: . At this point has hasn't really "came after" anyone. So I take him, thinking maybe I'll get him through the championship drive, nobody hurt, work with him pretty serious at the ranch. Wrong. As soon as I got ahold of him he basically "attacked" me, and got me to the ground. Luckily as soon as I fell I was able grab his nose ring and hold it up til the ring steward got there to lend a hand. My dad takes the bull and is excusing the bull from the ring, and here's the best part: He wins Reserve Grand CHampion Bull. Craziest thing I've ever seen. He still went to the sale barn the next day.

Only time I've ever seen a Longhorn really come after someone. Except a new mom, but thats expected.

Ryan
 

jaydill

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WagaAgeyv":1ki4ntdt said:
Try one as a pet (steer preferebly or cow) you will be happy in the end , no pun intended.
Got myself a silly steer but he hasn't got horns so it would be a little less scary were he to come after me like that...not that he's ever come after me. He's more a pet than a market steer in my opinion. Would rather play with birds and lambs than eat. The pet steers kind are the best though. ;-)
Ryan":1ki4ntdt said:
He wins Reserve Grand CHampion Bull. Craziest thing I've ever seen. He still went to the sale barn the next day.
Congratulations on your win. And I'd probably of done the same thing. Wonder how he's doing now? We had a steer at our last county show that had to be tied up to the fence to be judged, and still won grand or reserve. Seeing as how it wasn't showmanship, I guess it's fair!
 

Ryan

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jaydill":1cdbtqha said:
Ryan":1cdbtqha said:
He wins Reserve Grand CHampion Bull. Craziest thing I've ever seen. He still went to the sale barn the next day.
Congratulations on your win. And I'd probably of done the same thing. Wonder how he's doing now? We had a steer at our last county show that had to be tied up to the fence to be judged, and still won grand or reserve. Seeing as how it wasn't showmanship, I guess it's fair!

Thanks for the congrats. I have seen some pretty petty or ridiculous things discount an animal in the ring, its amazing that judges will still pick an animal for a champion with attitude problems like these.

I know of someone that had a cow they showed with a nose ring. This cow was real nice, she was even a World Grand Champion, but her attitude was so bad, not mean, just bad.... They could barely even control her with the nose ring.
 

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