Bull Buying Etiquette

[2/B or not 2/B]

Is there such a thing? I've never shopped for or bought a bull before and at first I couldn't locate any red angus breeders in my area at all . I was getting worried for a minute, but now I'm in contact with three different ranches (two local and one a few hours away). I'll being visiting the two local ranches in person soon. I was wondering if you had any tips for me or etiquette I should consider since I obviously won't be buying a bull from all 3 of them. What do breeders expect from potential customers? What's a good way to tell someone their cattle are nice but no thanks? Just wondering if there's diplomacy involved or if it's just straight talk and no hard feelings. Even if I don't buy from them now, I may be contacting them again in the future and I want them to be just as friendly and helpful then as they are now.

 

[dun]

Just be upfront with them. If they get offended if you buy a bull somewhere else they aren;t the kind of people you would want to do business with anyway. Just don;t wate their time. If all they have are animals that after a quick look you don;t have any interest in, thank them and be on your way.

 

[novatech]

Just like going out to buy anything else. Be polite, but remember they are out to sell you a bull and they will inform you of all the reasons theirs is the best. You need to look at all 3. Make the decession away from them after you have time to make an objective decession not based on their salesmanship. You may want to point out any defects in the bull just to let them know you know what you are doing. May help them improve their herd, but you may get an argument from them. Expect replies like, I'm not raising show cattle mine work in the pasture.
Good luck

 

[pdfangus]

I would disagree with novatech.

Not everyone appreciates when some idiot comes in off the street and starts criticizing their cattle.
Yeah ... I am such a person. Now I don't mind an honest observation or question, but some folks just seem like they have to pick pick pick. for them I just raise the price to cover my agravation. I had a guy pull up in the yard in his Jaguar one time and proceed topick and pick and criticize and try to beat me down from the price on a 1500 dollar two year old bull. Every time he offered a lower amount I countered by raising the price and by the time he offered 1000 my price had gone up to 3000. he said i was being unreasonable and I said you are probably right, the bull is not for sale and you can leave.

None of my cattle are perfect but I don't need the haggler to start picking at em to try to drive the price down. I price them pretty fairly anyway. I will show the buyer all the records I have and answer any questions about the cattle. I will show the whole herd and tell the relationship to any animals that might be related.

Treat the seller like you would want to be treated. Treat the buyer like you would want to be treated. I like to be friends with my customers and I would like them to feel the same way about me.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I would disagree with novatech.

Not everyone appreciates when some idiot comes in off the street and starts criticizing their cattle.
Yeah ... I am such a person. Now I don't mind an honest observation or question, but some folks just seem like they have to pick pick pick. for them I just raise the price to cover my agravation. I had a guy pull up in the yard in his Jaguar one time and proceed topick and pick and criticize and try to beat me down from the price on a 1500 dollar two year old bull. Every time he offered a lower amount I countered by raising the price and by the time he offered 1000 my price had gone up to 3000. he said i was being unreasonable and I said you are probably right, the bull is not for sale and you can leave.

None of my cattle are perfect but I don't need the haggler to start picking at em to try to drive the price down. I price them pretty fairly anyway. I will show the buyer all the records I have and answer any questions about the cattle. I will show the whole herd and tell the relationship to any animals that might be related.

Treat the seller like you would want to be treated. Treat the buyer like you would want to be treated. I like to be friends with my customers and I would like them to feel the same way about me.

I am with you not in my pasture, I don't have bulls for sale but I do heifers and cows.
I have a price and I woun't be Jewed in my pasture. There is nothing wrong with a counter offer in a polite business manner. We are not going to haggle or listen to the your BS.

 

[cypressfarms]

It always helps to treat people the way you would want to be treated. I wouldn't go to someone's farm and start criticizing their stock. Any farm will have some pride in their livestock (rightfully so), and pointing out perceived faults may not return the desired affect - if you have never met the person before. Straightforward - "Thank you very much for your time, but you do have what I am currently looking for" - will let the seller know that you are not interested now, without being disrespectful of the time they have spent with you.

 

[CKC1586]

I agree CB, when I sold my bull last October I had done my research to come up with a fair price and set it. The guy that wanted him started the "talk" and I told him that I had set a fair price and he certainly didn't have to pay it, but I was sure that someone else would. He bought the bull.
I don't have a problem with someone asking if this is your bottom line or asking if you could take less but I don't like haggling.
I guess the crux is as a buyer do your research and find out what animals similar to what you are looking at are bringing.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I agree CB, when I sold my bull last October I had done my research to come up with a fair price and set it. The guy that wanted him started the "talk" and I told him that I had set a fair price and he certainly didn't have to pay it, but I was sure that someone else would. He bought the bull.
I don't have a problem with someone asking if this is your bottom line or asking if you could take less but I don't like haggling.
I guess the crux is as a buyer do your research and find out what animals similar to what you are looking at are bringing.

Then you have the people that are almost having a sexual event while talking about EPD's.
Man has been seletively breeding cattle for thousands of years. A few people get together and come up with a tracking system 40 years ago and it is the only way to breed cattle. We have developed a generation of cattlemen that can't judge cattle without numbers on a piece of paper. Don't get me wrong I have seen some benifits but more negatives of breeding to the extremes. I don't need a cows milk numbers, I need to see the calf, this tells you her milk numbers and her efficiency. I don't need to see the bulls BW CE WW I need to see the calfs when shopping . EPD's are a tool in the tool box.

 

[backhoeboogie]

They have also changed the name of practically everything. Come up with some long terms and then shortened every one of them with an acronym.

The pasture haggling is the most offensive thing anyone can do in my opinion. There's nothing worse than driving 20 miles to sell a guy some hay, only to find out he's needing a few bales and wants to pay less than the price you quoted on the phone. That is when you get in the truck, drive off, lock the gates, and let him buy trash hay, for more money, down the road. Then the low life snake sends someone else to buy the hay and you don't know it until a month later.

 

[Frankie]

Is there such a thing? I've never shopped for or bought a bull before and at first I couldn't locate any red angus breeders in my area at all . I was getting worried for a minute, but now I'm in contact with three different ranches (two local and one a few hours away). I'll being visiting the two local ranches in person soon. I was wondering if you had any tips for me or etiquette I should consider since I obviously won't be buying a bull from all 3 of them. What do breeders expect from potential customers? What's a good way to tell someone their cattle are nice but no thanks? Just wondering if there's diplomacy involved or if it's just straight talk and no hard feelings. Even if I don't buy from them now, I may be contacting them again in the future and I want them to be just as friendly and helpful then as they are now.

First set yourself some guidelines for what you're looking for. Age, EPDs, price, pedigree? When you arrive, be polite and friendly. If you're not interested in their bulls, say so, politely and move on. If they ask your opinion, be honest and outfront. Some breeders are interested in why you don't like their bulls and any info you can give them might be helpful to them in the future. If you run into the local breeders somewhere later, make it a point to shake their hand and re-introduce yourself. Many breeders are happy to discuss the pros of their breed, if you buy their bull or not. Good luck....

 

[MikeC]

The best way to buy a bull is to explain your herd and aspirations to a reputable seedstock breeder and tell him to send you the best bull he has within your budget range to fit your criteria.

When he drives up with your new bull he will probably be better (for your situation) than the one you would pick out.

He will be under pressure to send you a good one because he wants your repeat business.

No one knows a bull like the man that raised him.

 

[jscunn]

AMEN Mike well said. The important part is finding a reputable breeder. I promise you will know if you picked the right breeder when the bull is 2 feet off of the trailer.

I gutted our replacement heifers a couple of years ago, because the customer wanted me to pick them out, I picked out what I thought the best heifers were just to make him happy. Is he, I dont know, but I can sleep at night.

 

[alabama]

A lot of bull buyers want the bigist bull you got and end up taking the cheapest one. I much rather sell a bull to the man that calls and tells you what he wants or at least what he is trying to do with the bull. From that I can give him a price range or even if I have what he needs. Then all that is left when he arives is to pick out the bull and load him up.

 

[MikeC]

AMEN Mike well said. The important part is finding a reputable breeder. I promise you will know if you picked the right breeder when the bull is 2 feet off of the trailer.

I gutted our replacement heifers a couple of years ago, because the customer wanted me to pick them out, I picked out what I thought the best heifers were just to make him happy. Is he, I dont know, but I can sleep at night.

We have customers in Louisiana that call us each year and tell us how many bulls to deliver. Could be 2, or could be 20.... and they say.......for instance.......'bring 4 -$2,000 bulls and 6 -$3000 bulls'.

It's a chore picking through them, but you can bet we send them the best we have and give them the best value for their dollar.

Everyone is skeptical of getting screwed, but generally it doesn't happen.............

 

[MikeC]

AMEN Mike well said. The important part is finding a reputable breeder. I promise you will know if you picked the right breeder when the bull is 2 feet off of the trailer.

I gutted our replacement heifers a couple of years ago, because the customer wanted me to pick them out, I picked out what I thought the best heifers were just to make him happy. Is he, I dont know, but I can sleep at night.

I would be at ease calling you and telling you to pick me out a dozen heifers or bulls and ship them.

You would be under the gun to deliver me a quality product at a fair price and I have no doubt that you would.

I have never brought a bull back home that was ordered sight unseen.....................

It's the ones that haggle over price for 3 days that are usually calling back seemingly unsatisfied. :roll:

 

[dun]

As the perspective buyer, if you tell the breeder that you'll call back and let him because you have other bulls to look at, call back one way or the other.

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

Thank you, keep the tips coming if you have more. I've started out by letting these folks know what I'm looking for and what my price range is, including shipping. I've asked them to point me in a different direction if they don't have anything I can afford, and so far they've all been very kind and helpful. I don't plan on trying to bargain anyone down since I know they're already setting fair prices within my range. I've asked them to tell me what they breed for in their cattle and what their strengths are. One place, the one that's far away, started by sending me a full list of all their bulls with links directly to their pedigrees on the RAAA website as well as photos of the dams, a full run down of their program, and recommendations on specific bulls. I'm still in the beginning stages of checking everything out. Just wanted to hear your input on things to do and things not to do since I'm not experienced at this sort of thing.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I agree CB, when I sold my bull last October I had done my research to come up with a fair price and set it. The guy that wanted him started the "talk" and I told him that I had set a fair price and he certainly didn't have to pay it, but I was sure that someone else would. He bought the bull.
I don't have a problem with someone asking if this is your bottom line or asking if you could take less but I don't like haggling.
I guess the crux is as a buyer do your research and find out what animals similar to what you are looking at are bringing.

• >>>>Then you have the people that are almost having a sexual event while talking about EPD's.<<<<<

Man has been seletively breeding cattle for thousands of years. A few people get together and come up with a tracking system 40 years ago and it is the only way to breed cattle. We have developed a generation of cattlemen that can't judge cattle without numbers on a piece of paper. Don't get me wrong I have seen some benifits but more negatives of breeding to the extremes. I don't need a cows milk numbers, I need to see the calf, this tells you her milk numbers and her efficiency. I don't need to see the bulls BW CE WW I need to see the calfs when shopping . EPD's are a tool in the tool box.

:lol2: :lol2: aint it a fact. most of the time id rather have a ass whipp'in than bull shop. this last breeder i dealt with made it a pleasure. i was buying a bull not a car and that's the way the deal went

 

[Boss Cowman]

Some of the bulls I've been happiest with were ones that I couldn't make the sale and after explaining my operation had the seller bid for me. I figure this breeder knew his bulls better that I did and I trusted his judgement. As for haggling over price on a private deal that's part of the fun to me :lol: . I once bought a couple of bulls from a guy who dropped the price sheet and when I stole a glance had 2 prices on it, one he wanted and one he'd take. As far as being critical of cattle I think you better be quite on that. Like my granddad told me once; "You can call a man's wife fat, kick his dog, but if you critisize his cattle look out!" Be honest and respectful and have fun. Don't be pressured into buying something oyur not sure of.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I've asked them to tell me what they breed for in their cattle and what their strengths are.

Not to be critical of you, but it seems to me you need to decide what you want. Do you know what you can market, what the market is, what breed thrives in your environment, and have you set any long term goals?

Reputable breeders in your area likely will know what thrives in your environment and they can give you some insight. They'll want to establish ties with long time customers. Some cattle traders are no more than horse traders.

I'm still in the beginning stages of checking everything out. Just wanted to hear your input on things to do and things not to do since I'm not experienced at this sort of thing.

You are being honest about everything. That is a huge plus and it says a lot about your credibility.

Find out what breed will thrive on the forage you have and bring the most nickels for the least amount of input. Don't get caught up in the ford/chevy/dodge type debates. Look to turn a profit and plan long term if you are getting into a cow/calf operation.