Bull buying delimma

[TCRanch]

Last year at this time I was perfectly happy with 3 bulls I really liked. Then last fall Rod suffered a stifle injury and I ended up having to sell an awesome 3 year old bull. Fast forward to last week and Dick, my all time fave, didn't pass his BSE. Devastated! So now I'm left with Johnson, our Village Idiot (oh, how I wish I could upload a video of him getting stuck inside a bale ring & dragging it around the pasture!).

Here's my dilemma: I have a small herd with only 40 cows, 6 first calf heifers & 6 retained heifers that will be bred next May. I bit the bullet & culled hard last year. Johnson is super high calving ease (+16) & he's perfect for heifers but obviously don't want all my cows spitting out tiny calves. Rod was +14, Dick was +9 and between the 3 bulls my last year's calves sold at appx. 8 months at an average 781# and 713# for steers, 688# and 606# for heifers so pretty decent growth.

Going to the Chisolm Trail Sale on Friday. Looking for opinions on whether it would be doable to buy one bull with a lower CED for the main herd and using Johnson on the heifers (maybe turning him out late April) then moving him over to the main herd with the new bull mid/late May. Plan B would be 2 new bulls, same lower CED range for the main herd with Johnson as the heifers sire, turning all bulls out mid/late May. Plan C would be 2 new bulls, one high CED for the heifers & using Johnson and the other new lower CED bull for the main herd. Clear as mud? Link to the sale if you're interested or have an opinion on any of the bulls: http://winfieldlivestockauct.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2019CTAACatalogWeb-chisholm-trail.pdf

 

[Dave]

I never have been a fan of those association sales with a bull or two from a bunch of small breeders. That and the catalog just has pedigrees and numbers. That is pretty much shopping by name recognition. My only other comment would be that bull prices seem to be down. At a sale such as this I would not get carried away bidding.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I know a guy in Kentucky....

 

[bird dog]

Does make economic sense to have three bulls with only 40 cows. I would buy one bull with a average CED for the main herd, keep the idiot for the heifers.
Try to get the heifers bred ahead of the main herd and then mix them all together when the main herd is ready. The idiot will breed most the first year I assume because he will be bigger but better to get them all bred quickly than worry about calf size.

 

[M-5]

I would suggest one with the name pecker or shlong in his registration papers

 

[Lazy M]

I'd take a look at lot 31 any bull that combines 7229 and CC&7 sounds like a winner to me. Looks like his individual growth was good too.

 

[TCRanch]

I would suggest one with the name pecker or shlong in his registration papers

I could provide a list of all the names I've had for my bulls. The implication is a little salty but I can still refer to them in polite company. Besides, that's their job! ;-)

 

[CattleMan1920]

I know a guy in Kentucky....

Me too! LOL!

 

[TCRanch]

I'd take a look at lot 31 any bull that combines 7229 and CC&7 sounds like a winner to me. Looks like his individual growth was good too.

Thanks, I liked his EPD's. Breeder is close & has a good reputation so that's a plus.

 

[TCRanch]

Okay, lemme throw out Plan D. Just spent an hour on the phone with a trusted friend who is also a true Cowboy, that's all he does. He is instrumental in helping me work my cattle twice a year & knows my herd. He calves in the fall & is offering 2 of his bulls for the main herd, Johnson would remain my heifer bull. He is primarily Hereford (red, black, polled & horned) but also has Angus. His idea is to put 2 of his black, polled Herefords or 1 BPH & 1 Angus with my primarily Angus main herd to promote hybrid vigor. Much higher BW/WW. No charge, just feed, and he would have them tested prior (plus he has a sound vaccination program). He doesn't have to graze/feed them over the summer (and reduce too many bulls being non-working bulls) & I have an alternative while I figure out my long term game plan. Part of the equation is Hubby, who isn't in the best of health so I'm doing the majority myself. Maybe sell pairs when we work them in May, maybe sell breds at weaning & get down to a totally doable one person operation. Not sure at this point but my friends offer gives me the option of taking more time and maybe not an additional investment/expense. Offer also extends to after this weeks sale, just in case I find a bull(s) I absolutely have to have. Hmmm?

 

[Aaron]

I would suggest one with the name pecker or shlong in his registration papers

SOAB, you beat me too it! :lol: :lol: I was going to suggest investing in 3 new bulls named Pecker, Schlong and Ding-Dong. :banana:

 

[Silver]

What did Dick fail on? It's not uncommon for a bull to fail a semen test at this time of year and be good to go in a month or two.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Two bulls with the right names should get ur done. :nod:
Offer D sounds good.
Sorry to hear about your husband.
With current prices - - you may make more with fewer cows and an extending grazing season.

 

[TCRanch]

What did Dick fail on? It's not uncommon for a bull to fail a semen test at this time of year and be good to go in a month or two.

Last year the vet said he had some spirals/coiling on the tail of the sperm but still tested okay, not great (don't remember exactly but mid 80's). And we have a lot of his calves on the ground, currently halfway through calving. This year he plummeted to a pitiful 49%, a lot of spirals/coiling. Vet had to re-test Johnson this year because the sperm were immobile on the first try. Use it or lose it? Fortunately his swimmers kicked into high gear for the subsequent test.

 

[TCRanch]

I would suggest one with the name pecker or shlong in his registration papers

SOAB, you beat me too it! :lol: :lol: I was going to suggest investing in 3 new bulls named Pecker, Schlong and Ding-Dong. :banana:

If I bought 2 I was thinking along the lines of Willy & Wonka or Tally & Wacker. :hide:

 

[TCRanch]

Glad I went to the sale, no regrets coming home with an empty trailer. Average price $2500. 3 were pretty hot, 1 even tried to jump the 8 ft gate (he sold for $1700). Hard pass! The bulls from Red Rock, OK looked like yearlings even though they were 2 years old. No, thank you. Lazy M, 31 was okay but I wasn't that impressed & he didn't have much of a butt. 13 bulls were pulled from the sale; we've had a hard, wet winter & evidently they didn't do well on their semen test.

Plan E: President of the Chisholm Trail Angus Assoc didn't have his yearlings at the sale. Good friends with the breeder (since retired) that sold us our last 2 bulls & another mutual friend that is familiar with our operation. He's offering private treaty; I'll provide him the EPD's/registrations of the best bulls I've had (some of which are long gone) and he'll essentially custom pick his bull(s) that most closely match (including docility!). Still strongly considering only buying one, culling hard & Johnson pulling double duty.

 

[1982vett]

Buying one and culling hard is the tough choice but may be best for your current situation.

I've been increasing herd size since I almost sold out in 2011. Age is catching up to me fast and it's amazing how much a 10 to 15 head increase taxes ones body at times. Also you may need to turn a blind eye to the under utilized pasture a decrease in your herd will surely give you. That is the hardest thing to make peace with.

 

[Stocker Steve]

With current hay and bedding prices - - culling down a bit and extending the grazing season could increase profits.

 

[farmerjan]

If you have the feed to get through to grass, and should have decent grass, barring a drought or disaster, I would go with plan D for now. Cow prices are still low, and pound/cull cows are still low, too. They have come up some here. Feeders took a $.20 jump this week. Think it might be because of the SUN finally coming out. Had a bred cow sale here and prices were up a bit, but not alot yet. There has been that horrible blizzard in South Dakota, and the Flooding there near you with alot of cattle being lost. That might affect prices in the next 6 months, especially there nearer to you.

I honestly would not put out money for a bull until you know what your game plan is. Then if you are going to cut back a little, you will have money from culled cows and have another year to look for a bull you really want.

Plus, a bull in the 3-4 yr old range should be able to cover 30 plus cows with ease. This past year was the exception for us; our preg checks were horrible. Vet is thinking lo-mag due to the excessive wet and green "washy" grass, all summer and fall. But, mostly we run 1 bull with 25 to 40 cows at the bigger pastures and seldom have more than 1-3 open. We also have 2 bulls that are calving ease and they are getting some age on them. We switch them back and forth so that they are not breeding their own daughters and both are very "gentlemanly" and have no problem with breeding the heifers. We do not keep alot of heifer calves out of heifers, but do keep some. I prefer to keep heifers out of the proven older cows, plus they are a little bigger due to using plus weight bulls on the cows. Trying to not get into the smaller and smaller female cycle so we try to keep some of our bigger heifers that we like, out of the + bulls.

 

[TCRanch]

Thank you for all the input!

Jan, the only problem with Plan D that didn't initially occur to me is after the breeding season when the borrowed bulls are returned, I'll have a still relatively young bull all by himself in a pasture. Assuming he stays in the pasture. He's never been a jumper but he's also never been alone and he has the attention span of a gnat, gets bored easily. And hubby pointed out we would have the liability if we borrowed bulls. What if they get out, get injured?
For those of you with Facebook, this is our Village Idiot. But bless his heart, he throws great calves!
https://www.facebook.com/kevette.lester/posts/10213936678388040?notif_id=1551626163360215&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic