Bull breeders: question

[deenranch]

My bulls are on feed. Pretty obvious if you've ever looked at the pics I've posted. They are on a high roughage feed and don't get all they can eat. The sales that I consign to like the bulls to be in good shape. When I first started raising purebred cattle, I didn't know much about this sector. I took some bulls to a sale that were a little young and were turn out ready. When buyers would come by and ask about the bulls, I would tell them that they weren't raised on full feed and that they were turn out ready. Got some really good feedback. Then the sale started... I was embarressed. Lowest selling lots in the whole sale. I was ready to quit. I asked the sale manager what I need to do to get better prices. He said that the bulls needed to be fatter. The next year I took bulls back and got better prices. I watched closer and noticed that the fattest bulls in the sale brought the most money. I wasn't the low man on the pole that year. I asked sale manager what I could do to sell better. Same answer..... IMO, people can say they want a bull turn out ready and don't want a bull that has lived with his nose in a bucket all day long. They usually buy a bull that is fat and looks good. Wether it's right or wrong, that's what happens every day. Fat cattle always sell at the top!

 

[plumber_greg]

Iso, Kernsie, 3-way, thanks. I learned a lot from your responses, not gonna' change my ways.
It seems to me that the people complaining about "bucket fed bulls" are the ones either with too few cows, or lack of desire, or lack of knowledge, to take care of young bulls.
Not wanting to offend anyone, but it's a lot easier to have a young, underdeveloped bull around to breed 4 cows next spring, than it is to need a young bull to breed 30 heifers on the first heat.
When I buy a young bull I like to have him around a couple months before turnout to change his diet and tame him down getting used to my methods. Couple years ago, my bulls were killed by lightning a month before they were needed. I worried about what was left over to buy, so I bought 18 month bulls and had no problems. So I think the disscussion is mostly about young bulls. gs

 

[salebarn junkie]

How much of the bull falling apart is feed and how much is how hard and how many cows hes chasing. A yearling bull shouldnt be on any more than 20 cows, a cow per month of age is a good rule. If you have fescue the bull better be raised on fescue or your headed for a train wreck.

 

[Bigfoot]

I might be missing the point here. To me if your putting a bull in a sale yea pour it to him. The people buying there expect a fat bull. For myself I would rather not bring a bull home to melt. I am of the opinion that what I am either buying, or keeping from my on heard is genetics. The DNA is not affected by feed. I don't think that makes me unknowledgeable, small time, or ignorant. I always have atleast three bulls on my place. I usually get several years out of a bull I really like.

 

[jerry27150]

too much grain does not allow the rumen to develop properly, and the stomach is not strecthed to hold enough grass to keep the bulls in shape. usually takes two years to get them straightened back out to grass alone.

 

[SSGenetics]

at least in my S Wisc conditions

That is exactly that, conditions vary so much that there just isn't a simple answer.

A good bit of advice for those willing to listen ... Don't buy the leanest bull in a fat bull sale thinking he is the one that won't fall apart....

BINGO! I've never understood the concept of lean cattle equaling efficient cattle.... :???:

 

[Anonymous]

If going to a bull sale, it sure would be nice to see fat bulls who you know the producer has made the effort to switch the rumen back over to forage. I guess if I'm going to a bull Sale i need to assume all the fat bulls are fat off grain unless i know the producer has made the effort. But I understand that takes time too

 

[SSGenetics]

When going to a bull sale look for muscle, not fat. :2cents: I'm glad you asked this question Hook, You've got a lot of good feedback and probably a better understanding of the whole thing!

 

[Anonymous]

I sure do. Thanks everyone

 

[slick4591]

So reading this thread makes me ask about my six week old. I've got the cows on a little 14% creep topped with a little 12% sweet and the calf eats a little with them most of the time. Is this good or bad for him?

Forgot to add they are on pasture but the grass sucks right now.

 

[3waycross]

So reading this thread makes me ask about my six week old. I've got the cows on a little 14% creep topped with a little 12% sweet and the calf eats a little with them most of the time. Is this good or bad for him?

Forgot to add they are on pasture but the grass sucks right now.

Doesn't hurt him a bit. That big beefy bull calf i posted the picture on a few weeks ago did the same thing with his momma on hay and show feed till he was 90 days old. Then they were turned out on pasture and he leaned down a bit but went from looking a little fat to a block of muscle in a month. His frame didn't shrink tho and he filled it up with muscle. One thing is for sure he didn't melt!

 

[slick4591]

Thanks. Didn't want him to start looking like a toad or anything.

 

[James T]

If going to a bull sale, it sure would be nice to see fat bulls who you know the producer has made the effort to switch the rumen back over to forage. I guess if I'm going to a bull Sale i need to assume all the fat bulls are fat off grain unless i know the producer has made the effort. But I understand that takes time too

There's a breeder down the road from me that holds a Beef on Forage sale every year. I see the bulls on grass most of the time and then a couple of months before the sale you'll see the grain/supplement trailer out in the field. I guess at $9k a pop the buyer would want that bull looking pretty good. I get your point though. I would rather buy a bull that's been on grass most of the time just to see his condition in a normal setting. If you know ahead of time who the breeders are and it's not too far a drive, it wouldn't hurt to drive by their place and take a look at their bulls from the road from time to time.

 

[djinwa]

When going to a bull sale look for muscle, not fat.

This is it in my amateur opinion.

Knersie mentioned muscle degeneration. If people aren't providing enough protein/energy, the bull may have to start living off his muscle.

So if he has lost muscle based on lack of nutrition, how can a seller convince a buyer that he actually has good genetics, but just lacks feed?

Which is why I don't understand those who post photos of scrawny bulls and expect viewers to understand how they could look if they only had something to eat.

 

[3waycross]

When going to a bull sale look for muscle, not fat.

This is it in my amateur opinion.

Knersie mentioned muscle degeneration. If people aren't providing enough protein/energy, the bull may have to start living off his muscle.

So if he has lost muscle based on lack of nutrition, how can a seller convince a buyer that he actually has good genetics, but just lacks feed?

Which is why I don't understand those who post photos of scrawny bulls and expect viewers to understand how they could look if they only had something to eat.

:tiphat:

 

[KNERSIE]

too much grain does not allow the rumen to develop properly, and the stomach is not strecthed to hold enough grass to keep the bulls in shape. usually takes two years to get them straightened back out to grass alone.

KAK!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Knersie, can you define Kak! please?

Thanks

TT

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Knersie, can you define Kak! please?

Thanks

TT

Ditto. I don't know that one.

Katherine

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I don't think anyone that thinks about it alittle would want to buy a bull that won't get fat. With a little time and management your you can buy fat bulls without any problems. Just bring him home and bring him down before he has to go to work. He just needs a little time to learn to live on less and toughen up a little. Don't just bring him home and dump him out with the cows.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

We just started selling stock, so we are kinda new at this. We consigned two purebred simm bulls to our state association sale this year in the Spring. When a friend came by (he owned the dam of one of the embryo bulls we were selling), he said I needed to start feeding my bulls! They had just been on hay (it was March). So I slowly brought them up on a bull ration (rumensen in it), and fed them for just under 30 days on grain (about 10 pounds a day). What a difference that made! My two bulls were high sellers, with one being the second high seller and the other being the third high seller of the bull sale. I was quiet pleased, and when people were walking around looking at cattle, if they asked I told them that the bulls were on grain for 30 days, and were at 10 pounds per day. Everyone seemed happy with that. We raise cattle on fescue out here, so take our bulls anywhere and they will not fall apart! They thrive on fesuce.
Here is a pic of the second high selling bull at $2900. He was 15 months old.

And the third high selling bull at $2650. He was 13 months old.

Do these bulls look fat?
Just my 2 cents. We sell about 5 bulls a year now, and all of our bulls are put on grain after weaning, but only about 6 pounds to supplement the grass or hay. Never had any complaints about our bulls falling apart. Yet!