BSE

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> I doubt that these ID/tag/chip
> issues will SOLVE anything. An
> occasional disease/problem in any
> line of the food chain happens and
> the beef industry is one the
> safest operations in the world.
> Compared to other entities, the %
> of beef that is uneffected is
> astronomically great. FAR too much
> is being made of this thing, and
> now that the government is digging
> into even more, there is sure to
> be something counterproductive
> come out of it. Panic is a
> by-product of juming to
> conclusions and things getting
> blown out of proportion. Lets get
> back to business.

Unfortunity we cannot just "get back to business". Our business just changed. A national ID system that will enable the tracing of the animal as well as receiving information back about that animal is in order. The ear tags that are being considered are only round button type tags and are not as prone to catching on something and being pulled off. The tags will be put on the animals when they leave the birth farm/ranch, thus for the small producer, they can be put on at the sale barn referanceing the sellers location. I would hope that an electric tag can be developed that will not wander around within the animal, but until then this tag will have to do.

My concern is the inspection process of the animals to be harvested. I worked with the Dept of Ag in Wisconsin as an inspector for about eight months. Some interesting information for me was the process and the operation. If any of you have not wittness the procedure and are producing beef, you need to be award of the process.

Here in Wisconsin we have a lot of small processing plants that make sauage and sell beef. We do not allow an animal to be harvested if It cannot walk into the plant. We have downer plants for those animals that cannot walk. I think the downer plants should be controlled more with stricker inspection requirments than the regular plants. Downer plants have USDA inspectors instead of state inspectors.

As an inspector, we inspect the limp system as this system is the filter system for the animal. If all looks ok the animal is passed. We do not look at or test the brain or look for antibiocats unless we supect the presence. Testing is not automatic.

The processor keeps the heart, liver, head and of course the carcus. These small plants run slowly, about 1 to 2 animals per hour or hour & half using a cradle to operate on. The larger plants like Packerland in Green Bay use chain convayors and will run about one animal thru every 12 to 15 seconds. The plants pay the State or the USDA for the inspectors. No animal can be harvested without an inspector present. If an inspector leaves the floor, the plant must shut down until they return. All state inspectors must be trained as the USDA inspectors are trained and the same program must be followed.

As an industry through out the US, we inspected about 20 to 30,000 head for BSE last year, a small percentage of the total animals harvested in this country. The cull cows and older cattle are the ones most suspect. These should be looked at more closly than they are now. Some say all cattle should be tested for BSE but I think a random sampling program would do the trick for regular cattle, but maybe full testing should be done on downer cattle. We should certinely increase our sample size. We think our system is working, but is it?

I also think rendered spinal system material should NOT be allowed in any animal food as it is now. Watch what your cat and dog are eating not to metion your hogs and chickens. We eat these animals and we are what we eat. I hope I have not boared you with so much info, but I think it is important for all comsummers and producers to know how and where their food is produced and inspected.



[email protected]
 
> Unfortunity we cannot just
> "get back to business".
> Our business just changed. A
> national ID system that will
> enable the tracing of the animal
> as well as receiving information
> back about that animal is in
> order. The ear tags that are being
> considered are only round button
> type tags and are not as prone to
> catching on something and being
> pulled off. The tags will be put
> on the animals when they leave the
> birth farm/ranch, thus for the
> small producer, they can be put on
> at the sale barn referanceing the
> sellers location. I would hope
> that an electric tag can be
> developed that will not wander
> around within the animal, but
> until then this tag will have to
> do.

> My concern is the inspection
> process of the animals to be
> harvested. I worked with the Dept
> of Ag in Wisconsin as an inspector
> for about eight months. Some
> interesting information for me was
> the process and the operation. If
> any of you have not wittness the
> procedure and are producing beef,
> you need to be award of the
> process.

> Here in Wisconsin we have a lot of
> small processing plants that make
> sauage and sell beef. We do not
> allow an animal to be harvested if
> It cannot walk into the plant. We
> have downer plants for those
> animals that cannot walk. I think
> the downer plants should be
> controlled more with stricker
> inspection requirments than the
> regular plants. Downer plants have
> USDA inspectors instead of state
> inspectors.

> As an inspector, we inspect the
> limp system as this system is the
> filter system for the animal. If
> all looks ok the animal is passed.
> We do not look at or test the
> brain or look for antibiocats
> unless we supect the presence.
> Testing is not automatic.

> The processor keeps the heart,
> liver, head and of course the
> carcus. These small plants run
> slowly, about 1 to 2 animals per
> hour or hour & half using a
> cradle to operate on. The larger
> plants like Packerland in Green
> Bay use chain convayors and will
> run about one animal thru every 12
> to 15 seconds. The plants pay the
> State or the USDA for the
> inspectors. No animal can be
> harvested without an inspector
> present. If an inspector leaves
> the floor, the plant must shut
> down until they return. All state
> inspectors must be trained as the
> USDA inspectors are trained and
> the same program must be followed.

> As an industry through out the US,
> we inspected about 20 to 30,000
> head for BSE last year, a small
> percentage of the total animals
> harvested in this country. The
> cull cows and older cattle are the
> ones most suspect. These should be
> looked at more closly than they
> are now. Some say all cattle
> should be tested for BSE but I
> think a random sampling program
> would do the trick for regular
> cattle, but maybe full testing
> should be done on downer cattle.
> We should certinely increase our
> sample size. We think our system
> is working, but is it?

> I also think rendered spinal
> system material should NOT be
> allowed in any animal food as it
> is now. Watch what your cat and
> dog are eating not to metion your
> hogs and chickens. We eat these
> animals and we are what we eat. I
> hope I have not boared you with so
> much info, but I think it is
> important for all comsummers and
> producers to know how and where
> their food is produced and
> inspected.

Sillco- I sure agree with you. If the slaughter of downers is allowed- every one should be tested. I agree that mandatory ID will become a requirement- I would go one step further and require mandatory Country of Origin Labeling- I think the consumer should have the ability to know what country their beef product comes from- Most consumers don't realize that the USDA inspected stamp doesn't guarantee its a product of the USA. Imported beef is marked the same.
 
Please explain to me the point of national ID system, etc. with this in mind..... They suspected this cow could have "mad cow".. so they pull the proper parts and send off for testing. BEFORE they know the results of the test, they throw the meat from this animal into the collective bucket. WHY????????????????? So now instead of losing the meat from ONE animal, we recall thousands of pounds of beef, sent to 8 states so far.. make the scare even bigger... It is probably the DUMBEST thing i have ever heard of. How about this for a "novel" concept.. if an animal is suspected of being sick, they send off whatever for testing, hang the carcass in the freezer and WAIT until they know. If the animal is sick, destory the meat. Seems beef producers will have new hoops to jump thru, new expenses to pay, when the simplist thing is not even considered. Perhaps you can explain this to me... :)
> Unfortunity we cannot just
> "get back to business".
> Our business just changed. A
> national ID system that will
> enable the tracing of the animal
> as well as receiving information
> back about that animal is in
> order. The ear tags that are being
> considered are only round button
> type tags and are not as prone to
> catching on something and being
> pulled off. The tags will be put
> on the animals when they leave the
> birth farm/ranch, thus for the
> small producer, they can be put on
> at the sale barn referanceing the
> sellers location. I would hope
> that an electric tag can be
> developed that will not wander
> around within the animal, but
> until then this tag will have to
> do.

> My concern is the inspection
> process of the animals to be
> harvested. I worked with the Dept
> of Ag in Wisconsin as an inspector
> for about eight months. Some
> interesting information for me was
> the process and the operation. If
> any of you have not wittness the
> procedure and are producing beef,
> you need to be award of the
> process.

> Here in Wisconsin we have a lot of
> small processing plants that make
> sauage and sell beef. We do not
> allow an animal to be harvested if
> It cannot walk into the plant. We
> have downer plants for those
> animals that cannot walk. I think
> the downer plants should be
> controlled more with stricker
> inspection requirments than the
> regular plants. Downer plants have
> USDA inspectors instead of state
> inspectors.

> As an inspector, we inspect the
> limp system as this system is the
> filter system for the animal. If
> all looks ok the animal is passed.
> We do not look at or test the
> brain or look for antibiocats
> unless we supect the presence.
> Testing is not automatic.

> The processor keeps the heart,
> liver, head and of course the
> carcus. These small plants run
> slowly, about 1 to 2 animals per
> hour or hour & half using a
> cradle to operate on. The larger
> plants like Packerland in Green
> Bay use chain convayors and will
> run about one animal thru every 12
> to 15 seconds. The plants pay the
> State or the USDA for the
> inspectors. No animal can be
> harvested without an inspector
> present. If an inspector leaves
> the floor, the plant must shut
> down until they return. All state
> inspectors must be trained as the
> USDA inspectors are trained and
> the same program must be followed.

> As an industry through out the US,
> we inspected about 20 to 30,000
> head for BSE last year, a small
> percentage of the total animals
> harvested in this country. The
> cull cows and older cattle are the
> ones most suspect. These should be
> looked at more closly than they
> are now. Some say all cattle
> should be tested for BSE but I
> think a random sampling program
> would do the trick for regular
> cattle, but maybe full testing
> should be done on downer cattle.
> We should certinely increase our
> sample size. We think our system
> is working, but is it?

> I also think rendered spinal
> system material should NOT be
> allowed in any animal food as it
> is now. Watch what your cat and
> dog are eating not to metion your
> hogs and chickens. We eat these
> animals and we are what we eat. I
> hope I have not boared you with so
> much info, but I think it is
> important for all comsummers and
> producers to know how and where
> their food is produced and
> inspected.



[email protected]
 
Dyann if I am not mistaken, they are putting new measures in place to alleviate exactly what you are speaking of.

> Please explain to me the point of
> national ID system, etc. with this
> in mind..... They suspected this
> cow could have "mad
> cow".. so they pull the
> proper parts and send off for
> testing. BEFORE they know the
> results of the test, they throw
> the meat from this animal into the
> collective bucket.
> WHY????????????????? So now
> instead of losing the meat from
> ONE animal, we recall thousands of
> pounds of beef, sent to 8 states
> so far.. make the scare even
> bigger... It is probably the
> DUMBEST thing i have ever heard
> of. How about this for a
> "novel" concept.. if an
> animal is suspected of being sick,
> they send off whatever for
> testing, hang the carcass in the
> freezer and WAIT until they know.
> If the animal is sick, destory the
> meat. Seems beef producers will
> have new hoops to jump thru, new
> expenses to pay, when the simplist
> thing is not even considered.
> Perhaps you can explain this to
> me... :)
 
> Please explain to me the point of
> national ID system, etc. with this
> in mind..... They suspected this
> cow could have "mad
> cow".. so they pull the
> proper parts and send off for
> testing. BEFORE they know the
> results of the test, they throw
> the meat from this animal into the
> collective bucket.
> WHY????????????????? So now
> instead of losing the meat from
> ONE animal, we recall thousands of
> pounds of beef, sent to 8 states
> so far.. make the scare even
> bigger... It is probably the
> DUMBEST thing i have ever heard
> of. How about this for a
> "novel" concept.. if an
> animal is suspected of being sick,
> they send off whatever for
> testing, hang the carcass in the
> freezer and WAIT until they know.
> If the animal is sick, destory the
> meat. Seems beef producers will
> have new hoops to jump thru, new
> expenses to pay, when the simplist
> thing is not even considered.
> Perhaps you can explain this to
> me... :) Call it packer GREED..........

[email protected]
 
> Please explain to me the point of
> national ID system, etc. with this
> in mind..... They suspected this
> cow could have "mad
> cow".. so they pull the
> proper parts and send off for
> testing. BEFORE they know the
> results of the test, they throw
> the meat from this animal into the
> collective bucket.
> WHY????????????????? So now
> instead of losing the meat from
> ONE animal, we recall thousands of
> pounds of beef, sent to 8 states
> so far.. make the scare even
> bigger... It is probably the
> DUMBEST thing i have ever heard
> of. How about this for a
> "novel" concept.. if an
> animal is suspected of being sick,
> they send off whatever for
> testing, hang the carcass in the
> freezer and WAIT until they know.
> If the animal is sick, destory the
> meat. Seems beef producers will
> have new hoops to jump thru, new
> expenses to pay, when the simplist
> thing is not even considered.
> Perhaps you can explain this to
> me... :)

The ID program is needed to track where the infected cow has been and which animals could have been infected as well. Hoof & Month will travial through the air and contact animal to animal. We need this information that a ID program will give us.

[email protected]
 
That's like the difference between recession and depression. Recession is when your neighbor looses his job, depression is when you loose yours. The packers are greedy because they want to make as much money as they can. Producers aren't greedy because we want to make as much on our calves as we can. hmmmmm

dun

[email protected]
 
> That's like the difference between
> recession and depression.
> Recession is when your neighbor
> looses his job, depression is when
> you loose yours. The packers are
> greedy because they want to make
> as much money as they can.
> Producers aren't greedy because we
> want to make as much on our calves
> as we can. hmmmmm

> dun Well I guess that is one way to look at it. however I am not a market maker...I am a price taker......packers have never been known for being overly generous with producers. Remember those are the same people that fought COOL touth and nail.....however they have no problem Trace back measures.....probably because they understand the cost will be born by the producer....My second example is.....who as a regular pratice bought downer cattle for pennies a pound...ground them up for burger and sold em high......Downer cattle would never have entered the processing plant if it not for the greed of the packer and the oppurtunity for emense profit margins afforeded them......I would like to know what the index cow brought....maybe 10 cents a pound......think about this we are all taking a hit because a greeder packer bought a 10 cents a pound half dead cow instead of 50 cents a pound for a lean and alive cutter canner...then instead of putting 500 lbs of burger on the shelf to await the results of tests ...mandated because the cow looked questionable......then comingled the meat and sent it on its way......but I guess this is all the farmers fault.....because we want to make a living.......RIGHT

[email protected]
 
> I posted this on the breeds board
> and thought I was on this board..
> ooops.. so both boards will have
> the post now.. urgg

> I just heard on the news and then
> read on the net (USDA), that they
> were aware of the
> "possible" BSE case on
> December 9th. Apparently, tests
> are done at slaughter houses on;
> particulary "downer"
> cows, as this cow was. Then while
> the tests are being processed and
> BEFORE they know diddly, they put
> the meat from the tested cow into
> the meat supply. So, after the
> meat is intermingled with all the
> other meat, they decide that the
> cow might have had BSE.. so now
> tons of meat are recalled. Why on
> this earth do they test if they
> just put the meat in with the rest
> before they know anything???? Does
> that not seem to only increase the
> losses? Additionally, I read the
> report on this cow is still
> "presumptive", meaning
> not conclusive. So we report to
> the world that we found a case of
> mad cow in the US, the beef market
> goes to hell and we are still in
> the "presumptive" stage?
> Someone please explain this
> madness, sounds like our own worst
> enemy might be us. It would also
> seem to me that the way to handle
> this is to hold your beef if you
> can..try to keep the supply below
> the demand. This whole thing makes
> me sick

I live in washington state,in the okanagon highlands,the primary producer of cattle in this state,this county is very large.Its intresting what is happening here..Our local stores cannot sell beef at all to our canadian neighboors.We are 19 miles from the boarder..Alot of canadians used to shop here as prices were better as was quality. But the thought is that the BSE scare won't hurt us to much as we arn't selling cattle right now and by spring the news will be old news and prices will stabilize by then. But I find that it's intresting peoples precption on what is happening..I said it before people don't care what they eat until the news puts something bad on the air and then there only 1/2 right if that.. Alot of things are going to happen.I think we will see that only healthy animals will inter the food chain. everything elce will be canned for dogs. there will be some way besides records from the producer on where the animal came from and not a bad thing too.I only buy washington growen chicken because some states don't have the regulations we have etc.. But something good could come out as other people will know this is USA meat and by that feel asured it is the best.WE do have the best!!! Just my thoughts..Cindy

[email protected]
 
> I live in washington state,in the
> okanagon highlands,the primary
> producer of cattle in this
> state,this county is very
> large.Its intresting what is
> happening here..Our local stores
> cannot sell beef at all to our
> canadian neighboors.We are 19
> miles from the boarder..Alot of
> canadians used to shop here as
> prices were better as was quality.
> But the thought is that the BSE
> scare won't hurt us to much as we
> arn't selling cattle right now and
> by spring the news will be old
> news and prices will stabilize by
> then. But I find that it's
> intresting peoples precption on
> what is happening..I said it
> before people don't care what they
> eat until the news puts something
> bad on the air and then there only
> 1/2 right if that.. Alot of things
> are going to happen.I think we
> will see that only healthy animals
> will inter the food chain.
> everything elce will be canned for
> dogs. there will be some way
> besides records from the producer
> on where the animal came from and
> not a bad thing too.I only buy
> washington growen chicken because
> some states don't have the
> regulations we have etc.. But
> something good could come out as
> other people will know this is USA
> meat and by that feel asured it is
> the best.WE do have the best!!!
> Just my thoughts..Cindy

Food for thought....Springer Farms

Mad cow hysteria is once again frightening beef consumers and hammering the beef industry. It would be easy to blame ignorant media, opportunistic anti-meat activists and cut-throat business rivals for the current mania. But I won't.

The blame for the groundless alarm rests squarely on the shoulders of scientists who have given way too much aid and comfort to the still unproven notion that mad cow disease poses a risk to human health.

It is widely taken for granted among scientists that mad cow disease (search) is caused by abnormal proteins called prions (search) that somehow build up in the brain and damage it. These same scientists also believe that disease can be spread by consumption of tissue infected with prions.

Humans, so the story goes, allegedly can contract a supposed human-form of mad cow disease, called "new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease" (search) or nvCJD, if they consume prion-containing tissue from an infected cow.

The alleged confirmation of this theory is the 150 or so human deaths attributed to nvCJD in Europe, mostly in the U.K., that have occurred since the mid-1990s following an outbreak of mad cow among British cattle.

Most of the scientists who buy into this theory are also quick to acknowledge that they believe the risk to human health is small but not zero, citing the relatively low number of deaths despite that hundreds of millions of Europeans who consumed millions of pounds of potentially infected British beef since the 1980s.

The prion theory has also been significantly propelled along by the fact that its developer, Dr. Stanley Pruisner (search) of the University of California at San Francisco, won a Nobel Prize for it in 1997.

Despite Pruisner's Nobel Prize, however, it has not been scientifically established that prions cause any sort of disease ¯ a fact only reluctantly acknowledged by organizations such as the National Academy of Science's National Research Council and the National Institutes of Health.

Despite almost 10 years of intense research into the causes and potential ramifications of mad cow disease, the prion theory still does not satisfy the basic scientific test known as Koch's Postulates (search) for whether a particular microorganism, such as a prion, causes a specific disease, such as mad cow.

Developed by German physician and bacteriologist Robert Koch in 1890, the basic criteria of Koch's Postulates as applied to the prion theory would be: (1) prions are present in every case of the mad cow disease; (2) prions must be isolated from a diseased cow and grown in pure culture; (3) mad cow disease should be reproduced when the cultured prions are inoculated into a healthy cow; and (4) the prion must be recoverable from the experimentally infected cow.

"The best-kept secret in this field is that [prions] in any form have never shown infectivity," said the head of Yale University's surgery department to the United Press International's Steve Mitchell.

There certainly have been a few exceptions to Koch' Postulates, but no one has made a case for why prions might be another such exception.

Aside from the propulsion received by virtue of the Nobel Prize, Pruisner's prion theory seems to have been accepted as the explanation for mad cow simply by default ¯ that is, no other explanations for mad cow and nvCJD have been developed.

It's the same sort of shallow thinking that explains why the 150 nvCJD deaths are usually attributed to consumption of infected beef. There is, in fact, no evidence that the 150 victims of nvCJD even ate infected beef, but it is assumed they did because no other explanation has been developed for how they could have contracted nvCJD.

It's not likely that more affirmative-natured explanations will be forthcoming anytime soon.

As the UPI's Mitchell pointed out this week, virtually all of the $27 million the National Institutes of Health gave to researchers for work on mad cow-type diseases was directed toward prion theory research.

An NIH spokesmen told Mitchell that the reason for not allocating resources to non-prion research is that few researchers seem to be proposing that type of research.

Other researchers, including an anonymous NIH scientist, told Mitchell that the research community isn't applying for grants because the agency is biased against non-prion theories and will reject applications for such research.

It could very well be that some virus or bacterium is responsible for the mad cow-type diseases ¯ but we might not ever know if NIH persists with its tunnel-vision.

The merit of the prion theory seems to rest almost exclusively in the fact that its developer impressed a Nobel Prize committee. It would be much more impressive, however, if the prion theory satisfied Koch's Postulates.

Steven Milloy is the publisher of JunkScience.com, an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute and the author of Junk Science Judo: Self-Defense Against Health Scares and Scams (Cato Institute, 2001).
 
> Food for thought....Springer Farms

> Mad cow hysteria is once again
> frightening beef consumers and
> hammering the beef industry. It
> would be easy to blame ignorant
> media, opportunistic anti-meat
> activists and cut-throat business
> rivals for the current mania. But
> I won't.

> The blame for the groundless alarm
> rests squarely on the shoulders of
> scientists who have given way too
> much aid and comfort to the still
> unproven notion that mad cow
> disease poses a risk to human
> health.

> It is widely taken for granted
> among scientists that mad cow
> disease (search) is caused by
> abnormal proteins called prions
> (search) that somehow build up in
> the brain and damage it. These
> same scientists also believe that
> disease can be spread by
> consumption of tissue infected
> with prions.

> Humans, so the story goes,
> allegedly can contract a supposed
> human-form of mad cow disease,
> called "new variant
> Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease"
> (search) or nvCJD, if they consume
> prion-containing tissue from an
> infected cow.

> The alleged confirmation of this
> theory is the 150 or so human
> deaths attributed to nvCJD in
> Europe, mostly in the U.K., that
> have occurred since the mid-1990s
> following an outbreak of mad cow
> among British cattle.

> Most of the scientists who buy
> into this theory are also quick to
> acknowledge that they believe the
> risk to human health is small but
> not zero, citing the relatively
> low number of deaths despite that
> hundreds of millions of Europeans
> who consumed millions of pounds of
> potentially infected British beef
> since the 1980s.

> The prion theory has also been
> significantly propelled along by
> the fact that its developer, Dr.
> Stanley Pruisner (search) of the
> University of California at San
> Francisco, won a Nobel Prize for
> it in 1997.

> Despite Pruisner's Nobel Prize,
> however, it has not been
> scientifically established that
> prions cause any sort of disease ¯
> a fact only reluctantly
> acknowledged by organizations such
> as the National Academy of
> Science's National Research
> Council and the National
> Institutes of Health.

> Despite almost 10 years of intense
> research into the causes and
> potential ramifications of mad cow
> disease, the prion theory still
> does not satisfy the basic
> scientific test known as Koch's
> Postulates (search) for whether a
> particular microorganism, such as
> a prion, causes a specific
> disease, such as mad cow.

> Developed by German physician and
> bacteriologist Robert Koch in
> 1890, the basic criteria of Koch's
> Postulates as applied to the prion
> theory would be: (1) prions are
> present in every case of the mad
> cow disease; (2) prions must be
> isolated from a diseased cow and
> grown in pure culture; (3) mad cow
> disease should be reproduced when
> the cultured prions are inoculated
> into a healthy cow; and (4) the
> prion must be recoverable from the
> experimentally infected cow.

> "The best-kept secret in this
> field is that [prions] in any form
> have never shown infectivity,"
> said the head of Yale University's
> surgery department to the United
> Press International's Steve
> Mitchell.

> There certainly have been a few
> exceptions to Koch' Postulates,
> but no one has made a case for why
> prions might be another such
> exception.

> Aside from the propulsion received
> by virtue of the Nobel Prize,
> Pruisner's prion theory seems to
> have been accepted as the
> explanation for mad cow simply by
> default ¯ that is, no other
> explanations for mad cow and nvCJD
> have been developed.

> It's the same sort of shallow
> thinking that explains why the 150
> nvCJD deaths are usually
> attributed to consumption of
> infected beef. There is, in fact,
> no evidence that the 150 victims
> of nvCJD even ate infected beef,
> but it is assumed they did because
> no other explanation has been
> developed for how they could have
> contracted nvCJD.

> It's not likely that more
> affirmative-natured explanations
> will be forthcoming anytime soon.

> As the UPI's Mitchell pointed out
> this week, virtually all of the
> $27 million the National
> Institutes of Health gave to
> researchers for work on mad
> cow-type diseases was directed
> toward prion theory research.

> An NIH spokesmen told Mitchell
> that the reason for not allocating
> resources to non-prion research is
> that few researchers seem to be
> proposing that type of research.

> Other researchers, including an
> anonymous NIH scientist, told
> Mitchell that the research
> community isn't applying for
> grants because the agency is
> biased against non-prion theories
> and will reject applications for
> such research.

> It could very well be that some
> virus or bacterium is responsible
> for the mad cow-type diseases ¯
> but we might not ever know if NIH
> persists with its tunnel-vision.

> The merit of the prion theory
> seems to rest almost exclusively
> in the fact that its developer
> impressed a Nobel Prize committee.
> It would be much more impressive,
> however, if the prion theory
> satisfied Koch's Postulates.

> Steven Milloy is the publisher of
> JunkScience.com, an adjunct
> scholar at the Cato Institute and
> the author of Junk Science Judo:
> Self-Defense Against Health Scares
> and Scams (Cato Institute, 2001).

Wow!!! You should be writing for the press!!!!Cindy

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I went to an auction yesterday in Tennessee.A representative from Tn.beef association spoke before the sale.He said he had been to the midwest feedlots and they like our cattle and they will continue to want our cattle.There were more people than there were cattle at the sale.400# steers brought 1.00 400# heifers brought between 80-87 600# steers in the 80s. For me those are good prices higher than I thought they would be.Hopefully prices can stay or go even higher.

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My second example is.....who as a regular pratice bought downer cattle for pennies a pound...ground them up for burger and sold em high......Downer cattle would never have entered the processing plant if it not for the greed of the packer and the oppurtunity for emense profit margins afforeded them......I would like to know what the index cow brought....maybe 10 cents a pound......think about this we are all taking a hit because a greeder packer bought a 10 cents a pound half dead cow instead of 50 cents a pound for a lean and alive cutter canner

I don't know where you live, but I have a processing plant one hour away that takes downed cattle. I have never heard of a cow bringing only ten cents. They buy on carcass weight and the last downed cow we took there had a broken leg and couldn't get up. There wasn't anything wrong with her besides that. We received $0.82 per pound. Other downed cattle worse off go for around 50-.60 cents a pound. It equaled out to around $550. If the packer can make a killing off of that cow, then go ahead because I was much happier getting that out of her than having to bury her or something else because the government thinks that downed cows are no good. A standing cow doesn't necessarily make it a healthier cow.



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I believe you have some facts incorrect. Koch's second postulate is difficult to prove for prion, as compared to viruses and bacteria which are more agressive in growth rate. The other 3 have been met.

Regardless of if direct cause and effect relationship is proven, there is very strong circumstancial connection between BSE and vCJD. While it is true that millions of servings of beef were eaten in the UK from cattle slaughtered with BSE; that only 135 people of vCJD died does not impeach the connection. Many diseases that pass between species are not very efficient at making the jump. Note that flu viruses start in the pig and avian species and jump to people only infrequently.

It may not be purely cause and effect either. Maybe some second condition is necessary for transmission, the average age of onset of vCJD is less than 30 years. Something appears to make younger people more suseptable or older people more resistant.

The number of new vCJD cases in the UK have declined rapidly as would be expected as the suspect cause(BSE) was brought under control.

Further, if some other biolgical can cause vCJD independently of proximily to BSE infections, where are the other worldwide case of vCJD?

Lastly, widespread use of mechanical deboning greatly increased the amount of nerve tissue in food products about the same time that the UK victims were likely beginning to be infected. Some speculation exists that this may be part of the equation.
 
Russ: The cow was sent on it way because the USDA inspector did not tag the carcus to be held until the lab results on the test were back. Instead they stamped the animal OK to process. What would you do if you were the packer? Process it!

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