Brown Swiss

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I filed my black Saddlebreds hooves today. He used to have to be held on a under upper lip jerk chain to stand for the high dollar fancy farrier at the dressage barn where I bought him. Had to leave him there for a year because our new place fences were a joke of sagging barb wire held together with bailing twine. The leasers black cattle got out on the road at night so often, the locals would get out of their cars in the middle of the night and shoo them back through the gates. Usually they would just honk so we knew they were out. We had to refence the whole place with cattle panels so they couldn't fence crawl and build a barn.

Also, this 8 year old Saddlebred was a fine harness horse exported from the east coat and was not broke to saddle. I paid this dressage trainer in central Oregon board and train for a year, thats the kind of barn it was. Took really good care of him but and she said it takes years to train a dressage horse. I told her again at the end I did not want a dressage horse but a trail horse.

With the local shoer trimmer (I just trim) he dances around if his left hind was lifted too high. He puts them in these hoof cradles. I like the hoof cradles, easier on the back but I did not have one or use one. I just did not crank his hind up to put put it between my knees, just held the foot and filed. He did fine.

Here is one of my Saddlebred trail horses. The 4 beat singlefoot gait across country is like floating and flying.

View attachment 22986

I've been reading on dairy boards that Brown Swiss tend to have an attitude as milk cows, Kind of like half angus dairy cows. I' sure these crosses can raise a big calf.

With Brown Swiss, You have to be patient with them, because they can be stubborn, but they don't kick the tar out of you like a Jersey or Jersey cross, when they get mad they just stand there and Refuse to budge .... Kinda like Mules vs Horses

 
I will have to take issue with the BS not being kickers. I have 2 places that have registered BS cows and I can attest to the fact that they can be NASTY KICKERS when they take a notion. Yes they can be moody... and they can kick you to hurt you. Both these farms have had show cattle and they are the epitome of patience with their cows... and each has had a kicking witch... one got shipped after 6 months of putting up with it on a daily basis... and they had tried all the tricks... the other has one now, first calf heifer about 3 months in and still being a miserable witch about it.
Jersey's can be fast kickers... the jer/hol crosses are moodier and I think get the worst from both sides.... I'd rather a straight jersey than a cross....
And holsteins are no slouch as kickers either...
Overall, the percentage of a kicker in the barn is low.... but ANY and ALL breeds will have an occasional cow to kick and I have not seen it any more prevalent in any one breed, but have seen "attitudes", more prevalent in the jer/hol crosses.

Shorthorns overall average more in the 3.5 to 4.0 BF... Most all the dairy cattle I regularly test are in the 3.0 to 6.0 BF. Many of the holsteins that I test are in the 3.5 to 4.5 range as the farmers areound here have bred more for components balanced with milk production. Most jerseys run 4.0 to 5.5....
It is very unusual for any to average less than 3.5 BF on the tank samples, and nearly all the cattle I test are well over the 3.2% range all the time.
 
I saw a video on youtube of a guy putting a surge milking machine on a cow tied to a wall in a dirt pen. He mentioned that she was a grumpy cow. She appeared to be one of the above mentioned black crossbreds. First he tied one of her hind legs way back to a post with bailing twine. Then attached the vaccuum hose of the milker to a HVAC pump and it didn't have pressure regulator on the line either. The cow was wary and tossing her head to begin with, then started dancing around when he turned it on. The pressure gauge bouncing way over limit so he'd unplug it til it came back down then start it again. Finally he came within range and bent down to fiddle with something. She struck him like a snake with the foot that wasn't tied back
 
I will have to take issue with the BS not being kickers. I have 2 places that have registered BS cows and I can attest to the fact that they can be NASTY KICKERS when they take a notion. Yes they can be moody... and they can kick you to hurt you. Both these farms have had show cattle and they are the epitome of patience with their cows... and each has had a kicking witch... one got shipped after 6 months of putting up with it on a daily basis... and they had tried all the tricks... the other has one now, first calf heifer about 3 months in and still being a miserable witch about it.
Jersey's can be fast kickers... the jer/hol crosses are moodier and I think get the worst from both sides.... I'd rather a straight jersey than a cross....
And holsteins are no slouch as kickers either...
Overall, the percentage of a kicker in the barn is low.... but ANY and ALL breeds will have an occasional cow to kick and I have not seen it any more prevalent in any one breed, but have seen "attitudes", more prevalent in the jer/hol crosses.

Shorthorns overall average more in the 3.5 to 4.0 BF... Most all the dairy cattle I regularly test are in the 3.0 to 6.0 BF. Many of the holsteins that I test are in the 3.5 to 4.5 range as the farmers areound here have bred more for components balanced with milk production. Most jerseys run 4.0 to 5.5....
It is very unusual for any to average less than 3.5 BF on the tank samples, and nearly all the cattle I test are well over the 3.2% range all the time.
Sorry Jan, I should have said that the brown swiss we have, we haven't had a problem with them kicking. They're the sweetest cows. We've gone through a Lot of jersey and jersey and jersey cross cow's that would try to kick the tar out of you, just because you were putting the milker on them. And with the jerseys, with the exception of 1. If anyone came into the barn to get grain for the calves, they'd start throwing their head's up and down in the stantion and some would start trying to kick over the milker. The brown swiss we have, just stand there looking bored, when the calves grain is being dished up. I have to say, my Hands down Favorite nurse cow was a Jersey that was old when I got her, she was super sweet and she could raise 3 calves on 3 quarters no problem! I had a different jersey that could raise 4 calves on 3 quarters, her problem was, when you were introducing a new calf to her, if you didn't constantly keep the calf between yourself and her, she'd kick at you, but she'd Never kick at a calf... My main Beef with the brown swiss cows is I used to be able to run a nurse cow with my milk cows,. But since getting the brown swiss, I Can't because I have one brown swiss that is a super sweet cow, Until she See's a cow nursing a bunch of calves, then she gets jealous and stand's there bellering wanting the calves for herself 🙄 And she won't go in the barn. I've never had a straight Holstein. One of these days I will probably get rid of the jealous cow and get myself another nurse cow. But for now I will roll with what I have. I understand your passion for jersey cows, I'm passionate about brown swiss. I'd like to have another good jersey nurse cow some day, because they eat less than a brown swiss, but I've had so many jersey and jersey cross kickers, that I'm kinda gun shy were they're concerned.
 
I have a hard time believing Shorthorns have only 2.3% BF
Me too. Milking Shorthorn breed average is 3.8%

Feed matters.
30 yrs ago a friend milking 60 holsteins showed me 4 years of his dhia records to back up his theory total butterfat yearly production was genetically capped.

In the years he fed ground ear corn his rolling herd average was 18,000 lbs of milk 3.9% bf and 702 lbs of butterfat
When he fed ground shell corn (with bi-carb buffer) 22,000 lbs milk 3.2% and 704 lbs butterfat
 
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@Hereford2 , actually my all time favorite cow is a Guernsey for a nurse cow... had 2 that would take any and all calves you gave them... one had 5 on her at a time, she was off a dairy and milked alot.... They are hard to get settled though.
But I also had one from a friend - AI tech that had a few guernseys - that was farmed out to a dairy and they were a little rough with their cows so he asked me if I would take her for awhile. Said she had gotten to be a kickin' witch.... I took her and she would be fine and then in a heartbeat would kick at you like she was trying to kill you.... I kept her for nearly 2 months and could not trust her; I was hand milking her to try to get her away from the reminders of the dairy she was on. She wouldn't let a calf near her and after getting a couple solid unexpected kicks myself, owner said to ship her before someone got hurt real bad .

Most cows are pretty good about being milked and can easily become nurse cows. There are a few of EVERY breed that would try the patience of a saint...
When I was testing full time and there were more dairies in this area that were smaller than what most have evolved to today, I saw about every breed and cross that was common in this area. I found that the jersey/hol cross were the most temperamental and had the most frequent breakdown of the udder after about 3-4 lactations.
Brown Swiss require alot of patience in handling because of their stubborness yet most are not mean.
Guernseys were mostly good dispositioned but again there were a few outliers.
One farm had a bunch of milking shorthorns. Nothing outstanding about them, but nothing to make you watch and worry. They just did their thing and produced a beefier calf for butcher. They did not make alot of milk and that is one reason they have fallen out of favor like the guernseys.
Had one farm with registered Ayshires. Supposed to be a flighty breed, but these were dog gentle. Good milking herd. They bred for disposition as well as milk etc.
One farm has some lineback cattle. Big beefy quiet and just go about their business. Not easily excited. I am sure there are a few that are not gentle giants but these are.
A few Normande and Montbeliarde crosses on another farm that did a bunch or crossbreeding. They like all those crosses and say they milk well, easy going and very fertile.
Never had any Dutch Belted and would love to try a couple.
 
@Hereford2 , actually my all time favorite cow is a Guernsey for a nurse cow... had 2 that would take any and all calves you gave them... one had 5 on her at a time, she was off a dairy and milked alot.... They are hard to get settled though.
But I also had one from a friend - AI tech that had a few guernseys - that was farmed out to a dairy and they were a little rough with their cows so he asked me if I would take her for awhile. Said she had gotten to be a kickin' witch.... I took her and she would be fine and then in a heartbeat would kick at you like she was trying to kill you.... I kept her for nearly 2 months and could not trust her; I was hand milking her to try to get her away from the reminders of the dairy she was on. She wouldn't let a calf near her and after getting a couple solid unexpected kicks myself, owner said to ship her before someone got hurt real bad .

Most cows are pretty good about being milked and can easily become nurse cows. There are a few of EVERY breed that would try the patience of a saint...
When I was testing full time and there were more dairies in this area that were smaller than what most have evolved to today, I saw about every breed and cross that was common in this area. I found that the jersey/hol cross were the most temperamental and had the most frequent breakdown of the udder after about 3-4 lactations.
Brown Swiss require alot of patience in handling because of their stubborness yet most are not mean.
Guernseys were mostly good dispositioned but again there were a few outliers.
One farm had a bunch of milking shorthorns. Nothing outstanding about them, but nothing to make you watch and worry. They just did their thing and produced a beefier calf for butcher. They did not make alot of milk and that is one reason they have fallen out of favor like the guernseys.
Had one farm with registered Ayshires. Supposed to be a flighty breed, but these were dog gentle. Good milking herd. They bred for disposition as well as milk etc.
One farm has some lineback cattle. Big beefy quiet and just go about their business. Not easily excited. I am sure there are a few that are not gentle giants but these are.
A few Normande and Montbeliarde crosses on another farm that did a bunch or crossbreeding. They like all those crosses and say they milk well, easy going and very fertile.
Never had any Dutch Belted and would love to try a couple.
Tell me more about the belties please!

I see a couple every now and then. Usually heavily discounted. The calves usually are as well. And it's nigh impossible to get a calf outta one without at least a partial belt I hear.

Milk good? Say compared to a jersey?
 
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What you are calling belties are more than likely Belted Galloways, not Dutch Belted Dairy cattle. But in either, the belt is hard to get rid of and it will cause discounted calf prices unless you are selling beef....
Belted Galloways are a double hair coat animal like the Highlands. They do not put the fat on their back like standard beef breeds in the colder climates because the double hair coat insulates them better. Meat is leaner overall, but pretty good. I had several years ago.....
The 2 breeds are worlds apart in statue, build, appearance.
 
We have had a nice conversation among ourselves. @mml373 has never come back.
At least it was a nice conversation. I personally will reiterate what I said, sometimes a cow isn't what's called for. Not everyone needs one, not everyone is fixed right to handle one, and it's not like a car where if you can't find the one to fit you then you can just learn a new one. If you're only fixed to handle a certain type of cow a certain way, you need to find that cow and hope she fits like you think she will.
 
So what is YOUR point @50/50Farms ????? The original poster asked where to find a cow/calf pair. Not if it was called for or needed, just if anyone knew where to find one and gave a preferred choice and those of us chimed in with the pros and cons.... of different breeds and sizes to give the OP some insight into the different breeds. Not to tell them that maybe they didn't have any idea of what they needed or wanted.
 
@Hereford2 , actually my all time favorite cow is a Guernsey for a nurse cow...

I have probably mentioned this before, but every time someone mentions Guernsey cows I think about one of our local vets, Dr. Goodman. Years ago we were somehow talking about cow breeds and he said "A Guernsey cow spends her whole life walking around looking for a place to lay down and die."
 
I have probably mentioned this before, but every time someone mentions Guernsey cows I think about one of our local vets, Dr. Goodman. Years ago we were somehow talking about cow breeds and he said "A Guernsey cow spends her whole life walking around looking for a place to lay down and die."
I've heard a vet say about the same thing of Herefords and Simmentals.
 
So what is YOUR point @50/50Farms ????? The original poster asked where to find a cow/calf pair. Not if it was called for or needed, just if anyone knew where to find one and gave a preferred choice and those of us chimed in with the pros and cons.... of different breeds and sizes to give the OP some insight into the different breeds. Not to tell them that maybe they didn't have any idea of what they needed or wanted.
No need to get so cut up about it, I didn't spit on your rug or break anyone's fine China. My point is that the OP has mentioned in several threads that they're disabled, raising sheep, I haven't seen any mention of an abundance of younger help, and is looking for a specific cow in a very specific part of the world and even then, I have misgivings about it because dairy cattle are recorded to have higher likelihoods of stress reactions when sudden changes occur in their lives. I'm actually not the first person to bring up the possible problems here, and I'd appreciate keeping it civil. I worry about OP "settling" for the wrong cow, biting off more than they can chew, and getting further disabled. If OP can't find the right kind of cow locally, it's time to pay shipping, drive to one somewhere else, pay a buyer, or take up goat milking since they're already set up for sheep. Don't like my opinion, that's fine, but there's no need for the hot sauce.
 
I wonder what kind of butterfat Corrientes have? I'm betting Corrientes give skim milk...
I think that's totally wrong, they dont' give much milk but it's high in fat.. condensed milk if you will :)
I have a number of cows with really small udders and they raise as big a calf as the "milky" looking ones
First timer, calf is just 205 days old, calf is now going on 4 years old and performs like momma, momma heifer this year was a tank
20191014_135516 Zippy Zecca (2).jpg
This year, 5 months old
IMG_20220526_103508_577 Zecca Zima.jpg
 
Me too. Milking Shorthorn breed average is 3.8%

Feed matters.
30 yrs ago a friend milking 60 holsteins showed me 4 years of his dhia records to back up his theory total butterfat yearly production was genetically capped.

In the years he fed ground ear corn his rolling herd average was 18,000 lbs of milk 3.9% bf and 702 lbs of butterfat
When he fed ground shell corn (with bi-carb buffer) 22,000 lbs milk 3.2% and 704 lbs butterfat
I have articles from the 1930's that showed Brown swiss with about a 3.8% BF over their lifetime and in Switzerland in that time they didn't get much grain at all, if any.. Here's a pic of how they were raised, this was at 6000 ft elevation too 1669667608361.png

For the situation the OP is in, I'd chose a cow based on character FIRST AND FOREMOST.. I'd rather have a big lazy workable cow than a small witch!
This was my milk cow for years, Gelbvieh shorthorn herf cross.. tons of milk with decent cream, probably coudl have had more if I grained her but I never did.. I could do anything with her with no fuss whatsoever.. uterine boluses? just give her a flake of hay and do it.. however, she was absolutely a 1-man cow and hated people with a passion.. anyone other than me she'd go 50 ft away and pout
20140324_102859s.jpg
Her and her momma, she was a milkable cow too, and not as moody with other people
IMG_0499s.jpg

Grandma, my first cow, milked her lots too
cows nov 14 05 007.jpg
 

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