British Sailors

[Caustic Burno]

I also missed an important part of the whole incident . How did the brittish navy let their ship be taken without firing a shot? Anyone know?

They weren't on a ship. They had left their ship on RIBs (inflatable boats) to board a merchant ship during a smuggling investigation. The region is disputed waters that Iranians claim. The Iranian boats had mounted machine guns; the British sailors had side arms. I think they made a sensible decision not to put up a fight.

The British Navy had a Frigate sitting in gun range that could have easily taken the Iranians out to met Ali.

 

[VanC]

I also missed an important part of the whole incident . How did the brittish navy let their ship be taken without firing a shot? Anyone know?

They weren't on a ship. They had left their ship on RIBs (inflatable boats) to board a merchant ship during a smuggling investigation. The region is disputed waters that Iranians claim. The Iranian boats had mounted machine guns; the British sailors had side arms. I think they made a sensible decision not to put up a fight.

I hadn't been following the story closely and didn't know this. It makes sense to me now. Sidearms vs mounted machine guns would be pure suicide. Something we also need to consider is that these were probably mostly scared kids with no combat experience. It's easy to say they should have fought back while typing on a computer from the safety of one's home. Looking down the barrel of a machine gun, a person might sing a different tune.

 

[Alice]

I also missed an important part of the whole incident . How did the brittish navy let their ship be taken without firing a shot? Anyone know?

They weren't on a ship. They had left their ship on RIBs (inflatable boats) to board a merchant ship during a smuggling investigation. The region is disputed waters that Iranians claim. The Iranian boats had mounted machine guns; the British sailors had side arms. I think they made a sensible decision not to put up a fight.

The British Navy had a Frigate sitting in gun range that could have easily taken the Iranians out to met Ali.

Along with their own British sailors...

Alice

 

[Alice]

I also missed an important part of the whole incident . How did the brittish navy let their ship be taken without firing a shot? Anyone know?

They weren't on a ship. They had left their ship on RIBs (inflatable boats) to board a merchant ship during a smuggling investigation. The region is disputed waters that Iranians claim. The Iranian boats had mounted machine guns; the British sailors had side arms. I think they made a sensible decision not to put up a fight.

I hadn't been following the story closely and didn't know this. It makes sense to me now. Sidearms vs mounted machine guns would be pure suicide. Something we also need to consider is that these were probably mostly scared kids with no combat experience. It's easy to say they should have fought back while typing on a computer from the safety of one's home. Looking down the barrel of a machine gun, a person might sing a different tune.

Oh He11 yeah! :shock:

Alice

 

[warpaint]

I am very glad this was resolved without bloodshed.

As Bez pointed out, we don't know what the ROE were.

As an ex grunt, we lived and breathed by ROE.

In this case, it could have very well been, "Do not fire unless fired upon."

 

[ollie?]

Thanks frankie and bez. I hadn't heard the story of how they were taken captive. Someones head should roll for leaving them in disputed waters un protected. Why didn't the Brittish navy just over take the Iranian ship and over take it?

 

[Bez>]

Thanks frankie and bez. I hadn't heard the story of how they were taken captive. Someones head should roll for leaving them in disputed waters un protected. Why didn't the Brittish navy just over take the Iranian ship and over take it?

Two reasons:

1. Boghammer is fast. It was a real short hop into Iranian waters.

2. Once back in what the Brits consider Iranian waters they would have had to stop the chase.

Beyond what most lefties might think, the Brits and other major western powers - including the U.S. of A. - respect international boundaries.

ROE would have prevented the Brits from chasing and / or engaging the Iranians.

ROE can really suck sometimes. Disobey it and you go to jail - long time and they really mean it when they say things like - "do not fire unless in self defence".

Some of us have been there and we did not like it then and we do not like it now.

Only the good guys follow the rules. Sometimes I think we should take off the white hats and fight them on their terms.

It would make some folks sit up and take notice of just what those infidels from the west could really do.

I forget the name of the movie, but we truly could unleash He LL.

But that is another story for another time.

Bez>

 

[Victoria]

I was happy to hear they are going home. Their families must be so relieved.

 

[chrisy]

Alice you got there before me, was going to put it up this morning as I have been in bed unwell....

It doesn't always take guns to get a result, no blood shed no red faces of the Sailors just good they are alive well and coming home.

Go in with the gung ho attitude of some, and all would have been lost and a lot more, this way all come out on top. I am sure a few heads will roll at home on the Navy Base, but they handled it with grace and dignity. There is no War impending over it, and all abodes well, what more could you want. But has bought out of the wood work those that want Gun Law to rule, just shows how ignorant some are when it comes to negotiation. shot first ask questions later attitude, is not always the way.

Bez gets it right again, suppose being in that sort of situation in War he knows what he is talking about. when not to commit suicide. but there is no telling some people this, the gun is the word and that is that.

I am not a coward or opposed to guns in curtain curcumstances. but think with your head, not what's in your hand.

 

[Horse Guy]

Yeah well, my idea is this was all about money. Everytime that Iranian guy does a press converence and starts mouthing off like a wrestler the price of crude jumps.
Take some hostages for a week and then return them before anybody even thinks of military action. Crude jumps in price and everybody in the oil business gets rich!
I think we should look back at how Genghis Kahn handled Iran when they tried to mess with him.

 

[Horse Guy]

Alice you got there before me, was going to put it up this morning as I have been in bed unwell....

It doesn't always take guns to get a result, no blood shed no red faces of the Sailors just good they are alive well and coming home.

Go in with the gung ho attitude of some, and all would have been lost and a lot more, this way all come out on top. I am sure a few heads will roll at home on the Navy Base, but they handled it with grace and dignity. There is no War impending over it, and all abodes well, what more could you want. But has bought out of the wood work those that want Gun Law to rule, just shows how ignorant some are when it comes to negotiation. shot first ask questions later attitude, is not always the way.

Bez gets it right again, suppose being in that sort of situation in War he knows what he is talking about. when not to commit suicide. but there is no telling some people this, the gun is the word and that is that.

I am not a coward or opposed to guns in curtain curcumstances. but think with your head, not what's in your hand.

Yeah sure, no problems in the future with Iran :lol:

 

[Horticattleman]

Alice you got there before me, was going to put it up this morning as I have been in bed unwell....

It doesn't always take guns to get a result, no blood shed no red faces of the Sailors just good they are alive well and coming home.

Go in with the gung ho attitude of some, and all would have been lost and a lot more, this way all come out on top. I am sure a few heads will roll at home on the Navy Base, but they handled it with grace and dignity. There is no War impending over it, and all abodes well, what more could you want. But has bought out of the wood work those that want Gun Law to rule, just shows how ignorant some are when it comes to negotiation. shot first ask questions later attitude, is not always the way.

Bez gets it right again, suppose being in that sort of situation in War he knows what he is talking about. when not to commit suicide. but there is no telling some people this, the gun is the word and that is that.

I am not a coward or opposed to guns in curtain curcumstances. but think with your head, not what's in your hand.

Yeah sure, no problems in the future with Iran :lol:

yeah and as soon as that nut fires a nuke at England because he can reach, all those Brits will be screaming come come little GI boy and use your guns to get them! I'm just glad Blair didn't succomb completely to their demands. Our Poopalosies and Kennedyies and Overhead welding Clintons would just say sure mr. terrorist anything you want we'll do it just let our boys come back. We don't care if it costs 600 times more lives next year.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Gaddafi and Libya sure have been quiet since that big stick hit them across the forehead.

 

[chrisy]

Alice you got there before me, was going to put it up this morning as I have been in bed unwell....

It doesn't always take guns to get a result, no blood shed no red faces of the Sailors just good they are alive well and coming home.

Go in with the gung ho attitude of some, and all would have been lost and a lot more, this way all come out on top. I am sure a few heads will roll at home on the Navy Base, but they handled it with grace and dignity. There is no War impending over it, and all abodes well, what more could you want. But has bought out of the wood work those that want Gun Law to rule, just shows how ignorant some are when it comes to negotiation. shot first ask questions later attitude, is not always the way.

Bez gets it right again, suppose being in that sort of situation in War he knows what he is talking about. when not to commit suicide. but there is no telling some people this, the gun is the word and that is that.

I am not a coward or opposed to guns in curtain curcumstances. but think with your head, not what's in your hand.

Yeah sure, no problems in the future with Iran :lol:

yeah and as soon as that nut fires a nuke at England because he can reach, all those Brits will be screaming come come little GI boy and use your guns to get them! Yeah well you can kiss my lilly white A$$!

I'm just glad Blair didn't succomb completely to their demands. Our Poopalosies and Kennedyies and Overhead welding Clintons would just say sure mr. terrorist anything you want we'll do it just let our boys come back. We don't care if it costs 600 times more lives next year.

didn't say there would never be any trouble, but not from this, and will we ask, well no more than you did in Iraq and Afghanistan, at one point there were only Canadian and Brits in Afgh: all the US was sent to Iraq so we faught the revenge on 911 for you there. so all those lilly white XXX as you put it don't need asking they just do as ours do. on the same side.and HELP>>>>

 

[Bez>]

Yeah sure, no problems in the future with Iran :lol:

It may come - but I can wait.

Bez>

 

[Horticattleman]

Alice you got there before me, was going to put it up this morning as I have been in bed unwell....

It doesn't always take guns to get a result, no blood shed no red faces of the Sailors just good they are alive well and coming home.

Go in with the gung ho attitude of some, and all would have been lost and a lot more, this way all come out on top. I am sure a few heads will roll at home on the Navy Base, but they handled it with grace and dignity. There is no War impending over it, and all abodes well, what more could you want. But has bought out of the wood work those that want Gun Law to rule, just shows how ignorant some are when it comes to negotiation. shot first ask questions later attitude, is not always the way.

Bez gets it right again, suppose being in that sort of situation in War he knows what he is talking about. when not to commit suicide. but there is no telling some people this, the gun is the word and that is that.

I am not a coward or opposed to guns in curtain curcumstances. but think with your head, not what's in your hand.

Yeah sure, no problems in the future with Iran :lol:

yeah and as soon as that nut fires a nuke at England because he can reach, all those Brits will be screaming come come little GI boy and use your guns to get them! Yeah well you can kiss my lilly white A$$!

I'm just glad Blair didn't succomb completely to their demands. Our Poopalosies and Kennedyies and Overhead welding Clintons would just say sure mr. terrorist anything you want we'll do it just let our boys come back. We don't care if it costs 600 times more lives next year.

didn't say there would never be any trouble, but not from this, and will we ask, well no more than you did in Iraq and Afghanistan, at one point there were only Canadian and Brits in Afgh: all the US was sent to Iraq so we faught the revenge on 911 for you there. so all those lilly white ass' as you put it don't need asking they just do as ours do. on the same side.and HELP>>>>

Never said I wouldn't support Britsish soldiers and Marines. As a matter of fact I've trained with them many times and would be there to support them in an instant. Its the general population who hates America until they need her. Kind of like alot of our own citizens! Those are the ones who I can't stand.

 

[aplusmnt]

I also missed an important part of the whole incident . How did the brittish navy let their ship be taken without firing a shot? Anyone know?

We will probably find out eventually. My guess is that the captain of the British ship was told by a higher up not to fire any shots so as not to start an "international incident".

l

Heard on radio that one of the Hostages said they were told to stand down when he radioed to see what to do.

Rules of engagement are one of the biggest problems facing the troops over there. As Bez said they would have had to probably stop the chase once they entered Iranian waters, but it should never be that way. They Brits should have been able to chase them all the way to Tehran.

As for their confessions, it is hard for me to say what should have been done since I where not in their shoes. But I know in history lots braver men than me have stayed with name, rank and serial numbers when faced with lots more time and torture than these soldiers went through. Seems they sold out themselves and country pretty quickly.

Some report that Brits lost face in this incident but to me I think the Iranians showed some weakness here. For all the Saber rattling they have did in past year they seem to have chickened out pretty quickly when faced with a chance to take on a Big Dog. Makes me think this Iranian president is not as willing to die as maybe he talks. I say bomb them Nuke plants and pull and then leave them the mess to clean up. Doubt he will or could do anything. For once I am for Cut and run. Bomb them and then run.

 

[VanC]

I say bomb them Nuke plants and pull and then leave them the mess to clean up. Doubt he will or could do anything.

You can bet if we don't do it, the Israeli's will. Anyone with half a brain knows if Iran gets nukes, and decides to use them, Tel Aviv will be the first to go. Some say the Iranians wouldn't do that, and, who knows, that may be true. The Israeli's won't take that chance.

 

[Bez>]

I also missed an important part of the whole incident . How did the brittish navy let their ship be taken without firing a shot? Anyone know?

We will probably find out eventually. My guess is that the captain of the British ship was told by a higher up not to fire any shots so as not to start an "international incident".

l

Heard on radio that one of the Hostages said they were told to stand down when he radioed to see what to do.

Rules of engagement are one of the biggest problems facing the troops over there. As Bez said they would have had to probably stop the chase once they entered Iranian waters, but it should never be that way. They Brits should have been able to chase them all the way to Tehran.

As for their confessions, it is hard for me to say what should have been done since I where not in their shoes. But I know in history lots braver men than me have stayed with name, rank and serial numbers when faced with lots more time and torture than these soldiers went through. Seems they sold out themselves and country pretty quickly.

Some report that Brits lost face in this incident but to me I think the Iranians showed some weakness here. For all the Saber rattling they have did in past year they seem to have chickened out pretty quickly when faced with a chance to take on a Big Dog. Makes me think this Iranian president is not as willing to die as maybe he talks. I say bomb them Nuke plants and pull and then leave them the mess to clean up. Doubt he will or could do anything. For once I am for Cut and run. Bomb them and then run.

As an aside and to add to your comments about prisoner statements:

The standard now is to hold for 24 hours - do and say nothing. This allows the political people time to get set up and involved. It also allows time for the codes and signals to be changed should some of them have been compromised.

After that you can sing to your hearts content. In fact if it eases your suffering do as much as you want - at least we know you are still alive - or were for the video taping!

Prisoners in Iran were given prepared statements to read. They were held in solitary (standard) confinement for 24 hours and given those prepared statements to read. After 24 hours all agreed to read if requested (so I am told) - and that is fine with me - they made 24.

As for holding out - in the old days it was torture - but now-a-days it is torture and drugs.

Some can beat the torture - but no one can beat the drugs - absolutely no one - a good medicine man can break you in to time - so do not bother trying - hence the revision to "hold out for 24 hours".

Bez>

 

[aplusmnt]

I also missed an important part of the whole incident . How did the brittish navy let their ship be taken without firing a shot? Anyone know?

We will probably find out eventually. My guess is that the captain of the British ship was told by a higher up not to fire any shots so as not to start an "international incident".

l

Heard on radio that one of the Hostages said they were told to stand down when he radioed to see what to do.

Rules of engagement are one of the biggest problems facing the troops over there. As Bez said they would have had to probably stop the chase once they entered Iranian waters, but it should never be that way. They Brits should have been able to chase them all the way to Tehran.

As for their confessions, it is hard for me to say what should have been done since I where not in their shoes. But I know in history lots braver men than me have stayed with name, rank and serial numbers when faced with lots more time and torture than these soldiers went through. Seems they sold out themselves and country pretty quickly.

Some report that Brits lost face in this incident but to me I think the Iranians showed some weakness here. For all the Saber rattling they have did in past year they seem to have chickened out pretty quickly when faced with a chance to take on a Big Dog. Makes me think this Iranian president is not as willing to die as maybe he talks. I say bomb them Nuke plants and pull and then leave them the mess to clean up. Doubt he will or could do anything. For once I am for Cut and run. Bomb them and then run.

As an aside and to add to your comments about prisoner statements:

The standard now is to hold for 24 hours - do and say nothing. This allows the political people time to get set up and involved. It also allows time for the codes and signals to be changed should some of them have been compromised.

After that you can sing to your hearts content. In fact if it eases your suffering do as much as you want - at least we know you are still alive - or were for the video taping!

Prisoners in Iran were given prepared statements to read. They were held in solitary (standard) confinement for 24 hours and given thoise prepared statements to read. After 24 hours all agreed to read if requested (so I am told) - and that is fine with me - they made 24.

As for holding out - in the old days it was torture - but now-a-days it is torture and drugs.

Some can beat the torture - but no one can beat the drugs - absolutely no one - so do not bother trying - hence the revision to "hold out for 24 hours".

Bez>

Interesting info I was not familiar with. Is this a pretty broad policy for most countries or are we talking British only here?