A
Anonymous
I have a heiffer that is 15 mos. but only about 625-650 lbs. even though she is of breeding age how big a factor will her size be? :?:
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Larry Sansom
Well-known member
Depends a lot on how she has been handled up to now - if roughed on grass only - I would not be worried, she will grow more on grass now that summer is here. If she has been fed and pushed to breed to calve as a 2 year old - I see some potential problems. Has vet tract scored her yet? She might not be mature enough to breed on 2 -3 heat even though she is old enough. I do not tract score - have found that breeding to calve as 2 1/2 year olds really is the best of all worlds. (Fall born calve as spring calvers - Spring born calve as fall calvers) The lack of feed and hard pushing really shows up in the net profit picture - plus the heifer matures more - thus re-breeds as a 2nd calf much easier than those that are trying to rebreed, raise a calf, and grow all at the same time. Pure weight means little unless you know more about the breed, the growth program, etc.Jaydee":48wjv6d8 said:
Jaydee":ig1m0p8y said:
Depends on the reason for her size. Is she a geneticly smaller heifer, i.e. mature weight expected to be in the 900 to 1000 pound range, or she small because of nutrition?
Something to keep in mind is that genetically smaler cows require a calving ease bull to be used there entire life. Even as mature she won't generally be able to easily have a calf over 80-85 pounds easily.
How sure are you of her weight?
dun
OP
OP
Anonymous
Thanks for your replies, this particular heiffer is out of a cow that is a least 1/2 hereford and what else i dont know, but the bull was 1/2 hereford 1/2 brahman. She was about 15-20 lbs. smaller than all of the other claves by the same bull, I have no clue why..mother?? anyway my weight estimate cant be very far off?!?! shes on pasture right now and Im not going to turn a bull in till late Aug. hopefully that will give enough time to mature more.
JD
JD
OP
OP
Anonymous
Ohio, because I raise calves to buck...not for beef... we dont have many hard winters to worry about, and so its not like im on a time schedule to have them at the sale when prices are good.
Larry Sansom
Well-known member
June calving is the PREFERRED Date for profitable calving if you are calving in sync with nature. Has been proven to be the most profitable time to calve by several studies. Massive benefits such as calves reach sexual maturity earlier if born near the longest day of the year, the cows are open during the hot part of the year, calves are weaned off in Jan - cheap to winter a dry cow and she flushes on cheap grass 30-45 days pre-calving. Also the weaned calf can be wintered cheap. Many on this board are hung up on their old ways - but you are on the right track. Cooler breeding time from late Aug - Sept Oct is beautiful weather in your country - so bulls are more active and breed better. I have used that season now for several years and will never go back to Jan/Feb calves unless I start to see deer "calving" in the cold snow of that season!Jaydee":20ssszbb said:
Larry Sansom":14t90qos said:
As in everything else, what's right for one circumstances may not be right for others. Believe it or not, all everyone does things just because that's the way it's alwasy been done. But I agree there are some that do. If it was good enough for granpa..............
But there are sound economic and convenience reasons for calving at times that you may consider "out of synch" with nature.
dun
Larry Sansom
Well-known member
But there are sound economic and convenience reasons for calving at times that you may consider "out of synch" with nature.
dun[/quote]Can you name 10?
dun[/quote]Can you name 10?
surprisingly those people who leaves bulls out year round have calves year round. if it was truly nature's intent that cows only calve in june, you'd think they'd all come around & cycle so they'd calve at nature's prime time. cattle are not deer, so don't compare the two.
you may not be familiar w/this extremely irritating little pest called the fire ant. fire ants are extremely active in the summer (& almost dormant in the winter) & will get on newborn calves' eyes & can cause blindness.......it's just one of the many reasons we don't have summer calves.
& Larry Sansom, please take the bold letters off your messages.....it appears you're yelling. we can read it just fine in regular print.
you may not be familiar w/this extremely irritating little pest called the fire ant. fire ants are extremely active in the summer (& almost dormant in the winter) & will get on newborn calves' eyes & can cause blindness.......it's just one of the many reasons we don't have summer calves.
& Larry Sansom, please take the bold letters off your messages.....it appears you're yelling. we can read it just fine in regular print.
Larry Sansom
Well-known member
Actually the year round breeding does move toward summer and away from winter calving. Every area is a little different ( you have a problem with fire ants that most of do not have) . The actual research on Summer calving was done out west- more north than where you are. The IRM-SPA data from several universities will confirm the profit picture of summer vs winter calving.(I like it bold)txag":2gegynsw said:
Larry Sansom":kom5471d said:
i still don't agree about the shift. i've seen herds w/year-round calving & cows have calves exactly that, "year round", especially in the moderate climates.
why don't you post some links to your research articles.
as for our area being different, that's exactly what dun said. not every circumstance is the same, so what works for you may not work for everyone else. you come off preaching high & mighty about nature's way, but until you come down & ranch in texas, don't tell us how to do it. the temps this week are in the 90s w/over 90% humidity. i sure as heck wouldn't want to be pregnant in this weather.
i suppose you must really enjoy reading your own posts because you're the only one typing in bold. it's kind of like typing in all caps....in the cyber world it's considered yelling & it's rude.
Larry Sansom
Well-known member
That weather is just like KY - and why I do NOT breed now - Open cows during the hot part of July/Aug. My calving is about over, cows flush easy on grass with no feed buckets back 45 days ago. research is out there- but you have to read it and not spend all the time "ratchet jawing" and putting post on this site under old "CB type handles". I post my name & my web site - no hiding here! Would suggest you start with Keith Long's "Beef Cow Efficiency" report to the BIF Cow Efficiency Committee. He operates the Bell Ranch in NM - more in your area.txag":g4z7zvrw said:
Larry Sansom":2xj4q2jz said:
One or ten, if the reason works in a paricular environment one is enough.
But try those that are farming and have other things to be doing during what you consider natures synch time. Making hay, fair season, school vacations, etc. I didn't notice your particular area, but getting animals to settle in Jul-Sept is the hardest around here. High temps and humidity. Our feedlots want backgrounded calves in early january which places them in the background program in October. I'll gaurentee that with the type of forage base in this area you aren't going to get adequate growth in 3 1/2 - 4 months to make a 600 lb weaned calf.
I'll say it again, what works for one person and their managment is not "right" for everyone.
dun
PATB
Well-known member
winter calving advantages for me
1. money= market buyers in my area want 700 lb plus calves and will pay. 400 lb calves do not work well in the maine and vermont feedlots in the winter.
2. ease of ai. cows are in confined area for winter feeding.
3. ease of weighing, tagging and and preventive shot for newborn calfs
4. less sickness since ground is frozen
5. time management not trying to calve and breed during hay season.
6. Cows can recover body condition before cold weather sets in on fall grass
7. calves are old enough to take advantage of sping pasture milk flush
8. less udder problems
9. pasture management. Calves are weaned and put in preconditioning lot when pasture is in shortest supply
10. young bulls are older for the commercial breeders who have conventional spring season.
1. money= market buyers in my area want 700 lb plus calves and will pay. 400 lb calves do not work well in the maine and vermont feedlots in the winter.
2. ease of ai. cows are in confined area for winter feeding.
3. ease of weighing, tagging and and preventive shot for newborn calfs
4. less sickness since ground is frozen
5. time management not trying to calve and breed during hay season.
6. Cows can recover body condition before cold weather sets in on fall grass
7. calves are old enough to take advantage of sping pasture milk flush
8. less udder problems
9. pasture management. Calves are weaned and put in preconditioning lot when pasture is in shortest supply
10. young bulls are older for the commercial breeders who have conventional spring season.
Larry Sansom
Well-known member
I would suggest you both go to the Dick Diven School - Low Cost/Cow Calf program http://www.lowcostcowcalf.com You need more help than I can give you on this site- especially since the original post was about breeding a small weight calf - not about calving season and fighting Mother Nature.
Larry Sansom":3a60c9zh said:
Selective breeding is fighting Mother Nature. Fertilizing pasture, planting forages that aren't native, AI, ET, nearly everything in raising cattle is not as nature had originally intended.
dun
hillbilly
Well-known member
We calve year round and dont notice them moving twords summer, if anything there are fewer calves born june through aug. than any other season.
I thought that was natures way of avoiding cooked calf.
Here in SW missouri summer calves are stunted because of lack of milk when they are 2 to 4 months. Our lean time [july, aug,sept.]
Also young mothers tend to walk away from sleeping babies in full sunlight [ cooked calf ]
I dont believe in calving in one or two seasons, but if I did it wouldnt be summer.
Hillbilly
I thought that was natures way of avoiding cooked calf.
Here in SW missouri summer calves are stunted because of lack of milk when they are 2 to 4 months. Our lean time [july, aug,sept.]
Also young mothers tend to walk away from sleeping babies in full sunlight [ cooked calf ]
I dont believe in calving in one or two seasons, but if I did it wouldnt be summer.
Hillbilly
ollie
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I am thinking about having a seminar to teach people why I think epd's are no good. Then poeple will think that I am smart and recomend my books and sell my salad dressing in the grocery store and then the t shirt business and.............elect me mayor..............................my fellow americans..............wow that would be a good ideaLarry Sansom":22g3qkce said:
