Breeding season questions

[ArmyDoc]

I've been reading about grass-fed beef operations. One of the recommendations is that you time your breeding season to be "in tune" with nature and keep the breeding season short. The reasoning is that by doing so, your calves will be born a the time when the cow can recondition after the winter on the green grass before the calf arrives.

Do you agree with this?

I live in Georgia. I get the impression this applies more for northern climates whose winters are harsher than ours. But if I wanted to do this, when should I plan on breeding in order to be "in tune" with nature?

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts about this.

 

[Caustic Burno]

This is an age old arguement, enviroment has a lot to do with your decision and what you are trying to accomplish.
Calfing in the fall brings max profits on your calf crop as spring calfs always bring more.
The draw back is carrying wet cows trhough the winter requireing more hay.
Calving in the spring is easiest on the cow but you will be selling your calf crop at the bottom of cycle in the fall when the market is flooded with calves and culls to be removed off before winter.
Calving year around is an option in milder climates
diadvantages you don't have a uniform calf crop, but it allows you to hold calfs to maximize prices at the barn also provides a steadier stream of income.
IMO there is no right answer its what fits your operation the best to maximize profits.
I am moving to a fall calving season from year around as spring sales always bring the most frog hides per pound. I live in an enviroment that carrying a wet cow is not much of a penality in hay.

 

[KNERSIE]

typically when calving to be in tune with nature, as you've put it, means starting to calve about 3 weeks to a month before the growth flush of the grass. The logic behind this is that the newborn calf won't be able to utelise all the milk form the spring flush, so you wnat the calf a few weeks older. Another consideration is that cows are allowed to clean out first in the calving area and this way they won't contaminate pastures that might have a negative influence on conception rates.

Usually when the breeding season starts the grass are stronger and the cows will be on a rising plain of nutrition also with a positive effect on fertility and conception rates.

 

[AngusLimoX]

Most calve here to time the calves getting to pasture when they can use the extra milk as Knersie said. But that may not fit the "natural" timing for our climate as it can be plenty cool in March/April here.

What Caustic mentioned about pricing was what I believed before I had to do a business plan, but when I checked locally, prices for calves are highest late Sept/Oct and into November. Prices for finished were highest in April/May. So I suggest you check to see how your local buyers pay at what time of year.

ALX

 

[Victoria]

Most calve here to time the calves getting to pasture when they can use the extra milk as Knersie said. But that may not fit the "natural" timing for our climate as it can be plenty cool in March/April here.

What Caustic mentioned about pricing was what I believed before I had to do a business plan, but when I checked locally, prices for calves are highest late Sept/Oct and into November. Prices for finished were highest in April/May. So I suggest you check to see how your local buyers pay at what time of year.

ALX

The prices are the same here. That is one reason we calve early in the year to sell in the fall. Also the cost of hay feeding cows with older calves would just be too much.

 

[ArmyDoc]

I'll have to check into when the prices are best here.

Knersie,
It's interesting that you say to time it so that birth is the month before the spring growth. I was thinking you'd want the mother cow to have access to that grass during the last month to make sure her BCS was adequate, incase she lost weight during the lean winter months. (not that they are all that lean in Georgia compared to say Montana)

Caustic,
Where are you located? With a fall birth, do you expect that you will have to supplement with hay, or that you will be feeding on hay only?

Can anyone tell me what the typical Breeding season is in Georgia?

 

[KNERSIE]

I'll have to check into when the prices are best here.

Knersie,
It's interesting that you say to time it so that birth is the month before the spring growth. I was thinking you'd want the mother cow to have access to that grass during the last month to make sure her BCS was adequate, incase she lost weight during the lean winter months. (not that they are all that lean in Georgia compared to say Montana)

Caustic,
Where are you located? With a fall birth, do you expect that you will have to supplement with hay, or that you will be feeding on hay only?

Can anyone tell me what the typical Breeding season is in Georgia?

The spring flush usually is very high in proteien, but still very watery. This will stimulate milk production unnecesarily, when the calf can't suck the cow dry as it is. I try and keep the proteien intake under control in the last month before calving, especially in heifers, the unborn calf can grow at an enormous rate during that period. Note that I am not saying you should starve a small calf out of the heifers, but just keep in mind what high proteien can do to the unborn calf.

Timing the calving season like that usually gives you the most bang for your buck as far as grazing and suckling the calf go and you would typically wean heavier calves for less input this way. I have no idea what your conditions are like, but this method works well all over Africa, not only in cattle but also in sheep and goats.

For more information about calving seasons in georgia, why not ask beefy or Jogeephus?

 

[Jogeephus]

I think Caustic is right in that there is no right answer. I have done both but now calve in January and February. I like this better since fall here is normally dry and dusty and it seemed to me I had more health problems in the calves. By calving in January, I'm able to keep the mommas from getting too fat and when they calve and the calf doesn't pull too much from the ma since it is small. As the calf begins to get some size to it so does the ryegrass and they grow with the grass until I wean them in July. After this point, heat minimizes their ADG just cause its too hot.

In short, calving in the fall will cost you more but you will make more as well. Calving in the spring will not cost you as much but you will make less. In all you will NET about the same. This is just from my experience and I'm sure others have other ideas.

 

[dun]

I think Caustic is right in that there is no right answer. I have done both but now calve in January and February. I like this better since fall here is normally dry and dusty and it seemed to me I had more health problems in the calves. By calving in January, I'm able to keep the mommas from getting too fat and when they calve and the calf doesn't pull too much from the ma since it is small. As the calf begins to get some size to it so does the ryegrass and they grow with the grass until I wean them in July. After this point, heat minimizes their ADG just cause its too hot.

In short, calving in the fall will cost you more but you will make more as well. Calving in the spring will not cost you as much but you will make less. In all you will NET about the same. This is just from my experience and I'm sure others have other ideas.

That pretty much is what the locals around here seem to think also. I talked to one neighbor that runs a couple hundred head of spring and about the same number of fall calvers. He pencil whips everything to the point of tedium. He's determined that the net is the same or very little different from year to year for the 2 herds. He does the 2 calving seasons so he has income twice a year.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I think Caustic is right in that there is no right answer. I have done both but now calve in January and February. I like this better since fall here is normally dry and dusty and it seemed to me I had more health problems in the calves. By calving in January, I'm able to keep the mommas from getting too fat and when they calve and the calf doesn't pull too much from the ma since it is small. As the calf begins to get some size to it so does the ryegrass and they grow with the grass until I wean them in July. After this point, heat minimizes their ADG just cause its too hot.

In short, calving in the fall will cost you more but you will make more as well. Calving in the spring will not cost you as much but you will make less. In all you will NET about the same. This is just from my experience and I'm sure others have other ideas.

That pretty much is what the locals around here seem to think also. I talked to one neighbor that runs a couple hundred head of spring and about the same number of fall calvers. He pencil whips everything to the point of tedium. He's determined that the net is the same or very little different from year to year for the 2 herds. He does the 2 calving seasons so he has income twice a year.

The difference here is you get a heavier calf for spring sale versus fall. Our winters are normally mild compared to most on the board.

 

[dun]

The difference here is you get a heavier calf for spring sale versus fall. Our winters are normally mild compared to most on the board.

That pretty well sums up why one size won;t fit all. If we were further south we'ld probably do fall calving, but feeding low quality hay and no supplement pretty much precludes it for us. The guy that does both seasons feeds grain during the winter cause the calves just don;t get the job done on low quality fescue and mothers milk alone.

 

[AngusLimoX]

That pretty well sums up why one size won;t fit all.

Just one of those things that boils down to prior planning - you gotta know your market. And should do that before you buy cows.

Up here there can be a big difference in the barns prices in a few hundred miles.( Better prices for good cattle at larger sales - more buyers ).

I would have my cattle weaned and ready for the larger volume times when the best prices are paid in the barns in your area Army Doc. I believe if you compare "natural" with profitable they may be quite different where you are.

ALX

Edit - soon as I pressed submit I had brain phart - are these folks talking finishing on grass AD? Different ball game. I think the rest of us are talking cow/calf.

 

[rockridgecattle]

we calve march april...tradition?. But also to work the system like Kernsie , Victoria and ALX have stated in regards to protien requirements.
Usually Jan and Feb are brutal here but March has it's moments and can be just as bad with -30 C temps. Just not as long as Jan. and Feb.
Couldn't imagine having a calf born in the fall and having it milking during November, December, January and February. The poor bag on the cow in our climate. Plus the soooo much extra hay needed to increase the protein for milking, breed back and keeping warm as well as cow maintenance... :shock:


EDIT do brain pharts hurts? should know for future reference :lol: :lol2:

 

[Brute 23]

At what age can a calf really benefit from good grass?

I would think you would want to adjust your season around that?

 

[AngusLimoX]

we calve march april...tradition?.

You won't find much sentimentalism or tradition when it comes to cattlemens wallets - there is a money reason for it.

EDIT do brain pharts hurts? should know for future reference :lol: :lol2:

Just when they have detrimental effect on your pocket book! :lol:

 

[manaftergodsheart413]

I dont think it would hurt if you looked up the lasater ranch website

 

[Tegerian]

http://www.lasaterranch.com/

 

[BC]

The original question was a breeding season for grass fed beef. I assume (you know what happens with assume) that he wants to sell grass fed beef. In Georgia, that probably means calving in the early winter (Jan or Feb), weaning in the fall and then finishing out the calves on ryegrass and clover. Cattle won't fatten as well on summer grasses in the south. It is a niche market and you are at Mother Natures mercy.

 

[Jogeephus]

BC, you are right. Once the heat and humidity kicks in their gains drops considerably - they become lethargic like their owner. When I wean my calves, I put them on millet and it doesn't take but a few minutes grazing for them to get their fill then seek out shade. Growth rates are not fantastic but they are acceptable and its cheap gain. Once the weather cools, I put them on rye, wheat or oats and then the gain picks up considerably and you can have a finished/breedable sized animal by calving season.

 

[backhoeboogie]

The difference here is you get a heavier calf for spring sale versus fall. Our winters are normally mild compared to most on the board.

That pretty well sums up why one size won;t fit all. If we were further south we'ld probably do fall calving, but feeding low quality hay and no supplement pretty much precludes it for us. The guy that does both seasons feeds grain during the winter cause the calves just don;t get the job done on low quality fescue and mothers milk alone.

Dun, We also get spring grasses a bit earlier as well.