Breeding Mistakes

Help Support CattleToday:

OP
J+ Cattle

J+ Cattle

Well-known member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
497
Reaction score
600
Location
North Texas
How many of these mistakes could have been avoided by using only high accuracy sires? I know someone has to be first to report the data that makes them high accuracy but still….
 

Ky hills

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
4,451
Reaction score
2,524
Location
Clark County, KY
I think folks put too much faith in EPD’s. Especially, when it comes to those curve benders and do it all numbers bulls. Logic would dictate that an outlier for high growth numbers as well as low BW/high CED numbers is going to moderate at least in one area when more of a broad swath of information is recorded.
Even with higher accuracies EPD’s are just a tool.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,606
Reaction score
1,689
Location
Central Upstate New York
I try to tell everyone - EPD's are just 1 tool in the toolbox.
Cow and management is much more important on CE. Cow can be a fetus developer. Will always have a giant calf.
People need to put more emphasis on their COW FAMILIES. If they aren't big pelvic cattle, they will have trouble calving to a Billie goat.
 

Bestoutwest

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2012
Messages
2,942
Reaction score
54
Location
Idaho
I used Quaker Hills Rampage when he first hit the scene. I used him on a LH cow, so I was hoping for some wicked growth. What I got was a bull that almost ate my dinner post foot surgery. The mistake was using the new "superstar" bull on the scene. Now I ask for CED, DOC and ACCURACY. I'll even skip the CED for accuracy.
 

Ebenezer

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
2,189
Reaction score
246
Location
Piedmont of SC
I think folks put too much faith in EPD’s. Especially, when it comes to those curve benders and do it all numbers bulls. Logic would dictate that an outlier for high growth numbers as well as low BW/high CED numbers is going to moderate at least in one area when more of a broad swath of information is recorded.
Even with higher accuracies EPD’s are just a tool.
I just wish they would tell the expected gestation period of the progeny.
 

Ebenezer

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
2,189
Reaction score
246
Location
Piedmont of SC
I used Quaker Hills Rampage when he first hit the scene. I used him on a LH cow, so I was hoping for some wicked growth. What I got was a bull that almost ate my dinner post foot surgery. The mistake was using the new "superstar" bull on the scene. Now I ask for CED, DOC and ACCURACY. I'll even skip the CED for accuracy.
His offspring are some of the most correct Angus in sale catalogs so I can see the attraction to him. But those are still pictures and not taken on the run for cover! 😳
 

Lazy M

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
1,642
Reaction score
426
Location
KY
I looked up his EPD's. A long with that bad attitude, he's a -36 in $EN. That's my kind of cattle. Can survive on air and thrive in the corn belt.
I may be misunderstanding your comment, but negative EN scores are not desirable.. a higher EN value reflects lower input cattle..
 

Ky hills

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
4,451
Reaction score
2,524
Location
Clark County, KY
I may be misunderstanding your comment, but negative EN scores are not desirable.. a higher EN value reflects lower input cattle..
I think SBMF 2015 is into finishing cattle, and negative EN score would in theory make for bigger frame that would finish out bigger.
I don’t understand his take on the negative docility as that looks like would lead to more dark cutters.
 

Till-Hill

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
1,059
Reaction score
23
Location
Waterville, Iowa
Star Power Simmental bull. Went to Genex meeting and they promoted him as CE bull. All my Ai customers wanted him and I used the crap out of him, for 1 year! Vets got good and C-sections!

Angus, Acclaim. Now they grow but mothers/fertile they are not. All went to feed yard
 

simme

Old Dumb Guy
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
1,104
Reaction score
1,935
Location
South Carolina
Star Power Simmental bull. Went to Genex meeting and they promoted him as CE bull. All my Ai customers wanted him and I used the crap out of him, for 1 year! Vets got good and C-sections!
Star Power's dam was something of a power cow. Sire was Dream On which was fairly easy calving. Star Power was an embryo birth, so his actual (low) birth weight may or may not mean much and would not have been used in his initial BW EPD calculation. 2009 BW EPD was +2. Current EPD's on the bull show a +4.9 BW and 6.5 CE EPD with high accuracy. Obviously not a calving ease bull and certainly not a bull to use on heifers. A couple of points (that I have made before) – use low accuracy EPD's with caution (especially on fire and ice matings), but high accuracy EPD's with lots of progeny (over 500 on this bull) generally reflect reality.
Current semen price - $5/straw.
 

Till-Hill

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
1,059
Reaction score
23
Location
Waterville, Iowa
Star Power's dam was something of a power cow. Sire was Dream On which was fairly easy calving. Star Power was an embryo birth, so his actual (low) birth weight may or may not mean much and would not have been used in his initial BW EPD calculation. 2009 BW EPD was +2. Current EPD's on the bull show a +4.9 BW and 6.5 CE EPD with high accuracy. Obviously not a calving ease bull and certainly not a bull to use on heifers. A couple of points (that I have made before) – use low accuracy EPD's with caution (especially on fire and ice matings), but high accuracy EPD's with lots of progeny (over 500 on this bull) generally reflect reality.
Current semen price - $5/straw.
Star Power is the reason I no longer use unproven bulls. Lesson learned. Calves that lived were pretty darn nice.
 

SBMF 2015

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
1,799
Reaction score
1,551
Location
West Central,IL
I may be misunderstanding your comment, but negative EN scores are not desirable.. a higher EN value reflects lower input cattle..
Your right, I hadn't read the definition for a long time.

Cow Energy Value ($EN), expressed in dollar savings per cow per year, assesses differences in cow energy requirements as an expected dollar savings difference in daughters of sires. A larger value is more favorable when comparing two animals (more dollars saved on feed energy expenses). Components for computing the cow $EN savings difference include lactation energy requirements and energy costs associated with differences in mature cow size.

I still believe there is a link between Doc and $EN
 

Similar threads

A
Replies
11
Views
3K
A
Replies
4
Views
2K
Anonymous
A
A
Replies
0
Views
958
Anonymous
A

Latest posts

Top