Breeding horned to polled.

[ksmit454]

I have a 15 month old miniature polled Hereford that I want to breed. The person that AI's my cattle has dexter that I can breed her to but he's horned… and I do not want horned cattle. From what I read, the polled cattle are dominate so the offspring would be polled. Ideas?

 

[greybeard]

https://hereford.org/static/files/1115_PerformanceMatters.pdf

 

[Warren Allison]

Depends on whether the cow is homozygous or heterozygous polled.

 

[gcreekrch]

Get rid of the minis and spend your money on real cattle.

 

[ksmit454]

Get rid of the minis and spend your money on real cattle.

Lol I have real cattle thank you. I have 10 real and 2 minis that I enjoy.

 

[gcreekrch]

Lol I have real cattle thank you. I have 10 real and 2 minis that I enjoy.

Fair enough, beyond my comprehension any benefit of a mini.

 

[greybeard]

pets

 

[SBMF 2015]

Horns are easy to remove when their young. I wouldn't worry to to about them. If you found a bull you can use go for it.

 

[ksmit454]

Fair enough, beyond my comprehension any benefit of a mini.

Well, I have only had cattle for 2 years, and I bought my first few because they were a good deal. I work at a feed store and a customer of mine bought some property with cattle on it. I made him an offer and made money selling the cows. Smaller Herefords. I kept 2 that I absolutely loved. I was only 23 when I started my cattle company so to be honest, I was pretty excited to even own cattle. So I have kept the 2 small Herefords that I call "minis". The mama cow has given me 2 nice calves. I now have 11, the 2 Herefords, some angus, some shorthorn. Where I live, a lot of people have small pieces of property (5ish acres), and they can justify getting miniature cattle.

 

[gusea305]

I have a 15 month old miniature polled Hereford that I want to breed. The person that AI's my cattle has dexter that I can breed her to but he's horned… and I do not want horned cattle. From what I read, the polled cattle are dominate so the offspring would be polled. Ideas?

Do you have goals beyond not having horns?
I personally do not like Dexters because they rely on breeding animals with a dwarf gene to animals without. You can have some serious problems with them. If you want to breed your mini you might consider a full blood lowline angus. I raised them for a number of years. They do a great job of turning grass into marbled meat but you have to raise them to 30 months to get an 1100 lb animal that has good marbling on grass. They have been by far the best beef I have eaten. I still have a lowline/red angus I breed to my big Murray Grey bull and her calves are fantastic.

Another thing I would consider is how big is your heifer? In my grass fed program we do not breed at 15 months. We shoot for a first calf heifer to to calve between 30 and 36 months in order to get a full size momma and a full size calf. This was especially so with my smaller cattle back in the day.

My biggest beef with minis is the unscrupulous breeding practices of those that push this breed. Every single pen of mini herefords i have seen, all born within days of each other, were all over the map as far as size, musculature, confirmation. They should look like well formed, same size, carbon copies if the breed and the breeder is any good. It just is not so with mini cows in general.

If you love your mini Hereford and you really want to breed her, wait until she is 21 months and AI her to a good lowline bull if you don't have one in your area, keep her as a pet, or let her go. That is my advice. And is truly the only ethical options I can see.

 

[ksmit454]

Do you have goals beyond not having horns?
I personally do not like Dexters because they rely on breeding animals with a dwarf gene to animals without. You can have some serious problems with them. If you want to breed your mini you might consider a full blood lowline angus. I raised them for a number of years. They do a great job of turning grass into marbled meat but you have to raise them to 30 months to get an 1100 lb animal that has good marbling on grass. They have been by far the best beef I have eaten. I still have a lowline/red angus I breed to my big Murray Grey bull and her calves are fantastic.

Another thing I would consider is how big is your heifer? In my grass fed program we do not breed at 15 months. We shoot for a first calf heifer to to calve between 30 and 36 months in order to get a full size momma and a full size calf. This was especially so with my smaller cattle back in the day.

My biggest beef with minis is the unscrupulous breeding practices of those that push this breed. Every single pen of mini herefords i have seen, all born within days of each other, were all over the map as far as size, musculature, confirmation. They should look like well formed, same size, carbon copies if the breed and the breeder is any good. It just is not so with mini cows in general.

If you love your mini Hereford and you really want to breed her, wait until she is 21 months and AI her to a good lowline bull if you don't have one in your area, keep her as a pet, or let her go. That is my advice. And is truly the only ethical options I can see.

I really like all the points you brought up. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. To be honest, I'm not a fan of dexters at all. I think my best option is to wait till she's a bit older, and AI her to a lowline angus like you said, with low bw. Honestly, I don't really know the history on my 2 "mini" Herefords. I bought them from a gentleman who had purchased property and the cattle came with it. I bought all 11 head, took 10 to the livestock market sale, and only kept 1 bred cow that I fell in love with. I kept her heifer calf too and that's who I've been referring to. I'll have to take pictures of her and post here. Just in comparison to my angus heifers who are only a month or two older, she's shorter than the angus.

 

[gusea305]

Oh so she is from a full sized cow? A full-blooded lowline is going to throw a 45 to 50 lb calf regardless, so BW shouldn't be an issue. I would love to see a picture of her with others of similar age. Good luck to you.

 

[ksmit454]

Oh so she is from a full sized cow? A full-blooded lowline is going to throw a 45 to 50 lb calf regardless, so BW shouldn't be an issue. I would love to see a picture of her with others of similar age. Good luck to you.

Still working on that picture for you! I'll get one soon and post.

 

[ksmit454]

This is the Hereford heifer, with my steers. She is about 18 months old.

 

[Caustic Burno]

She doesn't look miniature but stunted.

 

[ksmit454]

She doesn't look miniature but stunted.

What would cause that? She was with mom until 8 months old. I have her mother (pictured) and she is small too but I don't know her history. She has given me 2 nice calves. Her steer calf right now (b&w face is 5 months old and almost as tall as her).

 

[Caustic Burno]

English breeds are also know for dwarfism.

Genetic Defects: Dwarfism - ICBF

Dwarfism is known to affect multiple breeds in cattle but most often found in Angus and Hereford cattle. Two genetic mutations have been found for bulldog dwarfism in Dexter cattle, but it is unknown if other breeds carry the same mutation. Dwarf calves often have multiple defects which may...

www.icbf.com

 

[Travlr]

I really like all the points you brought up. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. To be honest, I'm not a fan of dexters at all. I think my best option is to wait till she's a bit older, and AI her to a lowline angus like you said, with low bw. Honestly, I don't really know the history on my 2 "mini" Herefords. I bought them from a gentleman who had purchased property and the cattle came with it. I bought all 11 head, took 10 to the livestock market sale, and only kept 1 bred cow that I fell in love with. I kept her heifer calf too and that's who I've been referring to. I'll have to take pictures of her and post here. Just in comparison to my angus heifers who are only a month or two older, she's shorter than the angus.

There are a lot of people on these threads that only think in terms of traditional practices. Don't worry about their opinions concerning what you "should like"... but pay attention when they give you facts because they do have experience.
There is actually a market for small finished beef. Personally, I've done it with cattle that would mature at 15/1600 pounds, slaughtering at a thousand pounds or less, but your smaller animals may do it more economically. I'd have to run the numbers. It's a trade off between rate of growth, feed costs, and time to processing. "Baby beef" is a specialty niche and it may be challenging to find a market for your product unless you are in proximity to a large city where you can find people that want smaller cuts. With the right customers and marketing you can get premium prices.
As to your breeding dilemma, if you are going to be keeping your small cows you might see if the AI guy can order something in just for you. If you aren't going to sell through a sale barn, instead directly to consumers as packaged beef, you can stay away from the Angus craze and just breed for performance or whatever else you like. Selling directly to repeat customers demands a consistent product.
It will become increasingly important as time goes on that your new enterprise becomes profitable. Pets are expensive. So find that niche that works for you and do what works in the way that makes you satisfied. Welcome to the land of grazing animals.

 

[ksmit454]

English breeds are also know for dwarfism.

Genetic Defects: Dwarfism - ICBF

Dwarfism is known to affect multiple breeds in cattle but most often found in Angus and Hereford cattle. Two genetic mutations have been found for bulldog dwarfism in Dexter cattle, but it is unknown if other breeds carry the same mutation. Dwarf calves often have multiple defects which may...

www.icbf.com

I did not know that thank you. I see that I can send in for a DNA sample that would tell me if she has dwarfism.

 

[ksmit454]

There are a lot of people on these threads that only think in terms of traditional practices. Don't worry about their opinions concerning what you "should like"... but pay attention when they give you facts because they do have experience.
There is actually a market for small finished beef. Personally, I've done it with cattle that would mature at 15/1600 pounds, slaughtering at a thousand pounds or less, but your smaller animals may do it more economically. I'd have to run the numbers. It's a trade off between rate of growth, feed costs, and time to processing. "Baby beef" is a specialty niche and it may be challenging to find a market for your product unless you are in proximity to a large city where you can find people that want smaller cuts. With the right customers and marketing you can get premium prices.
As to your breeding dilemma, if you are going to be keeping your small cows you might see if the AI guy can order something in just for you. If you aren't going to sell through a sale barn, instead directly to consumers as packaged beef, you can stay away from the Angus craze and just breed for performance or whatever else you like. Selling directly to repeat customers demands a consistent product.
It will become increasingly important as time goes on that your new enterprise becomes profitable. Pets are expensive. So find that niche that works for you and do what works in the way that makes you satisfied. Welcome to the land of grazing animals.

Thank you! Yes I already have repeat customers and honestly, I do live in an area where people love dexters and smaller cattle. Her mama, has given me 2 really nice calves, and I think her steer calf this time (we ai'd her to a a nice Angus bull) will be good sized as he is already huge at 5 months old. We live in the "foothills" area where a lot of people like the smaller animals for themselves, as most people live on 5-10 acres. Out of my whole herd, I only have these 2 that are "smaller", but if I'm breeding them, and they keep giving me successful smaller beefs, I'm happy with that, as so are my customers .