Breeding Early - AI

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inyati13

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Kenley Conner of Select Sires was at the farm this week. He was my AI instructor and does a good job communicating with his customers. I was telling him about the difficult June breeding season and that I had to guess more than usual about when to breed. He stated that he has started breeding early rather than late if he cannot hit them right when the textbook says the window is open. KNERSIE said something similar: That studies for heifers show that if they are standing, you can get good results by breeding at standing rather than waiting. Kenley said one of the problems with waiting too long is the biological clock is ticking on the egg. Remember cells age and an egg is a cell. Until it is fertilized, it is actually deteriorating. If the sperm cell is there when the egg ruptures from the follicle and begins its journey to implantation in the uterus, it gets fertilized, forms a zygote and stops the biological equivalent of an aging piece of fruit. Like a banana that becomes soft and dark.

Everyone has their set of AI biases. Mike Gifford is an old school guy I know who believes you can breed 24 hours after standing heat with good results. Kenley Conner does this for a living and is probably about like our CP on Cattle Today. He is a very short window guy based on what he told me. In the classroom he sticks with the manual but privately, he said in his own herd if a cow is standing when he gets up in the morning; he will breed her a couple of hours later. He does not like to wait until later that evening. He said the sperm will be in position, complete their maturation process and fertilize the egg early while it is still unaged.
 

regolith

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Since the AI techs visit dairy farms here once a day, it's pretty standard to breed everything in full standing heat, and everything that has come into heat since the previous visit.
I tend to do that even if I'm breeding twice a day - which I do mainly when there are more cows on in 24 hrs than I want to AI at once - because my memory is like a sieve and can't handle a twelve hour delay between heat and breeding.
Conception rates are still pretty good. Standing heat plus twelve hours is supposed to be optimal, but I don't think there's much difference in it.

One thing with the uncertain heats is you can always do her again if you've mated her when she's coming in to heat... but if you wait several hours after the initial signs and she never does come into standing heat, you've missed a chance at what was most likely a fertile, silent, heat. It's never an easy decision.
 

Jessica06

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We prefer early rather than late. We just did a heifer this morning that had a rubbed patch but was definitely out. Got all the chores done and did her before lunch. We'll do them late in their standing heat, too, if it fits better in our schedule. We are probably sitting at about 80-90% so far after one try, so I think that it's been working pretty well.
 

KNERSIE

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inyati13":1gb8mwnz said:
Nesikep":1gb8mwnz said:
My logic would be you can't be too far wrong if you do it at the time it would naturally happen

I have had the same thought.

Only if you used fresh semen and in the quantities the bull uses....
 
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inyati13

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KNERSIE":2l1sbj7m said:
inyati13":2l1sbj7m said:
Nesikep":2l1sbj7m said:
My logic would be you can't be too far wrong if you do it at the time it would naturally happen

I have had the same thought.

Only if you used fresh semen and in the quantities the bull uses....


That is a good point. Shows drawing parallels without considering all factors leads to errors. :D
 

Fire Sweep Ranch

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You go in too early and you risk the semen dying before the egg is released. The egg is not released until 8 hours after she stops standing, if I remember right. The semen takes just minutes to reach it's destination and wait. The longer the semen sits in the repro track, the sooner it dies. It is living cells, and the freezing process is hard on those cells. Put the semen in too early and it is dead before the egg ruptures. Put it in too late and the egg decays and can not be fertilized. And all that IF there is an egg. So much "if" involved you never really know why she did not get pregnant.
Also, a lot depends on the bull and how well he freezes. We have used bulls that we get great conceptions on, and have used bulls that we are lucky if we hit 50% on. That is just the way it works.
 
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inyati13

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Fire Sweep Ranch":c8k7x3a5 said:
You go in too early and you risk the semen dying before the egg is released. The egg is not released until 8 hours after she stops standing, if I remember right. The semen takes just minutes to reach it's destination and wait. The longer the semen sits in the repro track, the sooner it dies. It is living cells, and the freezing process is hard on those cells. Put the semen in too early and it is dead before the egg ruptures. Put it in too late and the egg decays and can not be fertilized. And all that IF there is an egg. So much "if" involved you never really know why she did not get pregnant.
Also, a lot depends on the bull and how well he freezes. We have used bulls that we get great conceptions on, and have used bulls that we are lucky if we hit 50% on. That is just the way it works.

You are becoming contrary Connie. I bet Glenn is hoping aliens will abduct him. :lol: :lol: :lol:

It depends on the IQ of those spermatozoa. Being male they are not too smart. :D
I wonder if they establish a pecking order to see who gets to fertilize the egg. Can you imagine them in there head butting each other? :D
 

Chuckie

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When I went through the Select Sires AI class, I asked the question about how long the sperm cells would live after they were deposited in the uterus. The instructor said, "That is a good question, I am not sure, but I can find the answer for you." But he never did. I have tried looking it up on the internet before, and it leads me to everything but what I am looking for.
Does anyone know the answer to this question?
 

Fire Sweep Ranch

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Chuckie":27dak2fw said:
When I went through the Select Sires AI class, I asked the question about how long the sperm cells would live after they were deposited in the uterus. The instructor said, "That is a good question, I am not sure, but I can find the answer for you." But he never did. I have tried looking it up on the internet before, and it leads me to everything but what I am looking for.
Does anyone know the answer to this question?

I have always been told 12 hours. Not sure if there have been studies to prove it or not. But that is what the perception is.
 
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inyati13

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Fire Sweep Ranch":2yx5s2wq said:
Chuckie":2yx5s2wq said:
When I went through the Select Sires AI class, I asked the question about how long the sperm cells would live after they were deposited in the uterus. The instructor said, "That is a good question, I am not sure, but I can find the answer for you." But he never did. I have tried looking it up on the internet before, and it leads me to everything but what I am looking for.
Does anyone know the answer to this question?

I have always been told 12 hours. Not sure if there have been studies to prove it or not. But that is what the perception is.


Kris, Kenley told me the other day it was 30 hours. Kris, I have been checking for information. I bet you it is closer to 30 than 12 in actual life span. In humans, I saw where frozen semen has a 72 hour life span in the uterus.

Kris, I have been continuing my research into the lifespan of spermatozoa. It is complicated by several factors. For example:

Did the bull the semen was collected from use cigarettes?
Did the bull use illicit drugs?
Did the bull use anabolic steroids?
Did the bull limit alcohol intake.
And eating a healthy diet and maintaining a healthy weight helps produce more fit spermatozoa.
 

Chuckie

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Well, I am not sure what all the bull's bad habits are, but I think I will start hitting them a tad bit earlier than I have been. I have been waiting 12 hours after the I see they are in standing heat. I may move it to 9 hours.
 

dun

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Chuckie":3654xmc3 said:
Well, I am not sure what all the bull's bad habits are, but I think I will start hitting them a tad bit earlier than I have been. I have been waiting 12 hours after the I see they are in standing heat. I may move it to 9 hours.
With a few rare exceptions the old AM/PM rule has stood the industry in good stead for many years.
 

dun

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Chuckie":dx0mbhjt said:
Stick to the 12 hours you are saying eh, Dun?
Not 12 hours (mainly because I'm not going to get up in the middle of the night to breed). AM/PM, standing in the AM breed them in the PM and vice versa
 

kickinbull

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I have been doing AI for a few years. When I started out I had a distributorship/AI tech service. Once my dairy grew I didn't feel I had time to do it for others. One thing I have come to the conclusion is that most people don't view their cows heat as closely as they think. So when they asked about AM/PM I would say, see them in heat call me and I'll be there as quick as I can. It worked.
 
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inyati13

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Fire Sweep Ranch":24fe87bx said:
Chuckie":24fe87bx said:
When I went through the Select Sires AI class, I asked the question about how long the sperm cells would live after they were deposited in the uterus. The instructor said, "That is a good question, I am not sure, but I can find the answer for you." But he never did. I have tried looking it up on the internet before, and it leads me to everything but what I am looking for.
Does anyone know the answer to this question?

I have always been told 12 hours. Not sure if there have been studies to prove it or not. But that is what the perception is.

FSR, I did find a reference. The life of semen in the reproductive tract is 24 to 32 hours.

http://en.engormix.com/MA-dairy-cattle/ ... 103-p0.htm
 

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