Breeding AI on indefinite heats

[regolith]

Just thought it might be worth clearing up a couple points with the more experienced guys on the board.

I read in a newspaper article the other day some expert saying you couldn't breed on 'maybe' heats if the cow might be pregnant because you could lose the pregnancy.
Now the way I understood it you *do* breed on later heats regardless of how strong they are and whether or not the cow might be three weeks or more pregnant, but you drop the semen halfway through the cervix and don't let the tip of the inseminator into the uterus, to eliminate the possibility of disturbing the existing pregnancy.

Anyway, that's what I've always done. I think I've read that you can drop the conception rate slightly by cervix breeding but I don't know the likelihood of slipping an existing pregnancy... cervix breeding should eliminate that possibility.
I absolutely agree with cp, you don't get cows pregnant by not breeding them..., you'll definitely get more pregnancies by mating 120% of the on-heat cows than 80% of them.

Anyone here know how likely it is that AI can cause pregnancy loss, and can it be caused by 'normal' insemination (dropping the semen just past the end of the cervix) or would it only happen if the inseminator had been allowed some distance into the uterus?
Do you do anything different when breeding a cow that has been bred earlier that season?

I keep enough low-priced semen in the bank that I'm not likely to hesitate about putting a straw into a cow that doesn't need it.

Just seen a third on-heat pregnant cow for this month the other day... at least I had a good look at her right side this morning and I'm pretty sure there's still a calf in there and she's due in three weeks. The other two were checked by the vet after cycling, both of those are now springing ready to calve.

 

[wbvs58]

I don't really know Regolith but my gut feeling is that you would get away with it most of the time as long as things are not too badly stirred up and penetrated. I have often wondered myself.
Ken

 

[Lucky_P]

Had a heifer a year or two back that was standing 3 weeks to the day after her initial AI service. Bred her again. She calved to the initial AI service.

 

[cow pollinater]

I have no idea how many of them slip if you try to breed a pregnant one but my vet checks usually have about 2% cows that were pregnant to the previous breeding and they're all still stuck.
At forty two days(which on paper looks like I missed a heat 21 days earlier if I stop to look at a cow)I can tell when I try to pass her that she's bred so on those I stop and check but not until I've passed her at least part way and I've never seen any big problem with those showing up open.

 

[cbcr]

I'm not sure and have never seen any figures on the number of cows that have signs of heat even though they are bred. But the way that I was taught some 40 years ago is that if you question a cow, then you deposit the semen in the cervix around 3/4 of the way thru.

Now if the cow has a discharge, that is a sign that she was definitely in heat, then breed as usual. If she is in heat to0, it will be really easy to pass the insemination gun thru the cervix.

When a cows does get around that 42 days or so from last service, you can usually tell of the possibility of her being bred if the cervix is in a little farther than what you would normally expect.

 

[regolith]

I'm not sure and have never seen any figures on the number of cows that have signs of heat even though they are bred. But the way that I was taught some 40 years ago is that if you question a cow, then you deposit the semen in the cervix around 3/4 of the way thru.

That's exactly how I was taught.
Used to see one or two cows a year hold to an earlier service than expected, usually three weeks because if it's six weeks it's not a surprise when she starts springing; I would have got the vet in to tell me which mating she held to.
Those vet checks certainly suggest that I'm seeing 'false heats' fairly regularly where the cow is standing to be ridden but already pregnant.