Breeders Responsibility?
- Thread starter slick4591
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cow pollinater
Well-known member
At the age that she was bred, he didn't have any reason to suspect a problem being around bull calves.
Keep buying from him- he made a mistake, is willing to make it right, and likely won't let that same mistake happen again whereas with a different breeder you might have the same problem since it's not a common one.
If it makes you feel any better, I bought twelve registerd Angus cows that were all bred and wound up with four sets of twins, half of which were DOA.
The first two sets were AI calves so I assumed there was some over-dosing of Gnrh involved but the last two sets were from the guys bull so that's not it... The previous owner has called a few times to check on them and even came to visit when he was in the area, when I told him he was shocked. He's offered to make it right but I declined... Not his fault. He'd of had the same problem if he'd kept the cows since he didn't know there was a problem.
Sometimes you just have to accept that it is what it is. Just because something is not right doesn't mean that someone did it on purpose.
Keep buying from him- he made a mistake, is willing to make it right, and likely won't let that same mistake happen again whereas with a different breeder you might have the same problem since it's not a common one.
If it makes you feel any better, I bought twelve registerd Angus cows that were all bred and wound up with four sets of twins, half of which were DOA.
The first two sets were AI calves so I assumed there was some over-dosing of Gnrh involved but the last two sets were from the guys bull so that's not it... The previous owner has called a few times to check on them and even came to visit when he was in the area, when I told him he was shocked. He's offered to make it right but I declined... Not his fault. He'd of had the same problem if he'd kept the cows since he didn't know there was a problem.Sometimes you just have to accept that it is what it is.
Just because something is not right doesn't mean that someone did it on purpose.
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slick4591
Well-known member
For the record I never, ever thought it was something he had done on purpose. Piedmontese are early maturing and yes, there were bull calves and her sire running in the same pasture. It was an unfortunate incident, but it was his mistake. If this had happened a couple of months from now and the calf didn't look like it was fullblood, I woulda figured a neighbor's bull had jumped the fence and gotten to her as I only bought a bull a month ago and he's pastured 9 miles away from the heifers. I woulda sucked it up and took the hit. I do believe the breeder bears the responsibility of this happening, but just how far he needed to take it was in limbo with me. Now I know and have learned a few lessons. In fact, I hung a gate today so I can separate pastures and animals when the time comes. I don't want something like this biting me in the butt!
Nesikep
Well-known member
Controlling when calves get bred is hard, especially if you have late range, or similar where it's hard to separate the heifer calves from the bulls.. we had one bred at 7 months, and surprised us the next july, we weren't as unfortunate as you in the way that she had the calf all on her own, however, she never turned out to be a good cow since her growth was stunted... since that, I've separated my replacement heifers, along with the mothers from the rest of the herd from mid september onward.
I'd be grateful that I get choice on other stock of his, but for future dealings with replacement heifers, for all of us, is to ask "what if" she's bred to the owner...
All beginnings are hard,... when we bought our first 12 cows, the first calving season we lost 3 calves and 2 cows... we got squat back from the previous owner...
I'd be grateful that I get choice on other stock of his, but for future dealings with replacement heifers, for all of us, is to ask "what if" she's bred to the owner...
All beginnings are hard,... when we bought our first 12 cows, the first calving season we lost 3 calves and 2 cows... we got squat back from the previous owner...
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slick4591
Well-known member
I found out this morning that a full sister will be in the pen. I know there's no fertility issues with that one! In fact, he's pulling her off the cow and separating a little early to prevent another occurrence.
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slick4591
Well-known member
This is the better heifer of the two pictures I was sent. She looks a whole lot like her sister. Whatcha think?
vclavin
Well-known member
I'm not good at phenotype ....but she looks nice to me!
Good luck with her! You were so lucky he has tried to make it right with you. I bought an open Registered Angus heifer (yearling)that wouldn't breed, breeder gave back difference between salebarn and puchase price. Bought another open Registered Angus heifer(yearling), wouldn't breed.. all I got was swinging beef - at least she was good eating at 27 months, last was a registered Angus cow (3 year old) with calf....she dies 3 months after I bought her. Breeder says.. You got the calf don't you? No "I'm sorry" or can I do any thing to make it right just "You got the calf don't you?". She was FULL of cancer .. BVL I think it's called. I guess I just wanted to know the breeder cared about his customers -...NOT!!!
Valerie
Good luck with her! You were so lucky he has tried to make it right with you. I bought an open Registered Angus heifer (yearling)that wouldn't breed, breeder gave back difference between salebarn and puchase price. Bought another open Registered Angus heifer(yearling), wouldn't breed.. all I got was swinging beef - at least she was good eating at 27 months, last was a registered Angus cow (3 year old) with calf....she dies 3 months after I bought her. Breeder says.. You got the calf don't you? No "I'm sorry" or can I do any thing to make it right just "You got the calf don't you?". She was FULL of cancer .. BVL I think it's called. I guess I just wanted to know the breeder cared about his customers -...NOT!!!
Valerie
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slick4591
Well-known member
Sorry for your misfortune! Yes, I'm pretty lucky.
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slick4591
Well-known member
I'm a gonna.
It sounds like the breeder of the heifer is doing all he can to take care of his customer. He is the kind I want to do business with, anyone can make a mistake but the good ones try to make it right.
Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com
Gizmom
http://www.gizmoangus.com
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
You have received great advice. It's a lose-lose situation for both buyer & seller. He is out the $$$ - you are out the year. That would be what I would have offered - and would expect from another breeder.
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slick4591
Well-known member
Jeanne - Simme Valley":2vejcdc0 said:
I have received great advice and it's something I'll keep with me when I start selling! Thanks to everyone!
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slick4591
Well-known member
Got her home today and dumped her with the bigger girls. Found out she really tries to hold her own at the trough, but quickly learned to run from end to end to get to eat. She's been off the teat a week and has bawled herself hoarse. Guess I coulda done worse.
hillsdown
Well-known member
Now to never have this happen again you and every other breeder/buyer of early maturing breeds need to take precautions !!!!!!!
Every heifer that I ween at my place whether she is a replacement or a cull is given a shot of prostaglandin and dexamethasone at at around 9 days after the last bull exposure . BTW it is usually not the herd bull that breeds them but their bull calf contemporaries. This has been stressed so many times I am surprised that it has been neglected by so many as fotter.
I would also demand vet costs back as well ,the heifer was sold as open . You need to add your own responsibility on to the next time you buy an open heifer as you now know what can happen and have been told how to avoid this in the future. Give your new heifer (which by the way is a very nice looking Piedmontese) a shot of prostaglandin and Dex JIC .
Good luck ; you have a nice looking group of heifers .
edit to add : What some ranchers do when they send the cow/calf pairs out to summer pasture they separate all the cow/calf heifer pairs from the cow/calf bull pairs to limit this scenario as much as possible without the added cost of aborting them at weening.
Every heifer that I ween at my place whether she is a replacement or a cull is given a shot of prostaglandin and dexamethasone at at around 9 days after the last bull exposure . BTW it is usually not the herd bull that breeds them but their bull calf contemporaries. This has been stressed so many times I am surprised that it has been neglected by so many as fotter.
I would also demand vet costs back as well ,the heifer was sold as open . You need to add your own responsibility on to the next time you buy an open heifer as you now know what can happen and have been told how to avoid this in the future. Give your new heifer (which by the way is a very nice looking Piedmontese) a shot of prostaglandin and Dex JIC .
Good luck ; you have a nice looking group of heifers .
edit to add : What some ranchers do when they send the cow/calf pairs out to summer pasture they separate all the cow/calf heifer pairs from the cow/calf bull pairs to limit this scenario as much as possible without the added cost of aborting them at weening.
CKC1586
Well-known member
Actually Pieds are late to mature.....slick4591":1uzw1p5a said:
CKC1586
Well-known member
She is a nice looking heifer. (I like that gal on her left too!) Looks like you are building a nice harem for Bryson!slick4591":2tg3o45q said:Got her home today and dumped her with the bigger girls. Found out she really tries to hold her own at the trough, but quickly learned to run from end to end to get to eat. She's been off the teat a week and has bawled herself hoarse. Guess I coulda done worse.
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slick4591
Well-known member
I spent about half an hour talking with the breeder when I was picking her up. He told that the same thing has happened to him... twice, only he didn't get squat out of it. He adopted his thinking out of those two incidents and this is why he made good on the replacement. HD, I think I'm leaving it alone now and chalking it up to a life lesson. I will be loading her and getting her vet checked in the next few days out of caution.
Thanks for the compliments!
Cindy, I guess I'm really confused because there are web sites around stating that they are early maturing, and then a couple call them later maturing. All of my girls were being ridden (cycling?) within eight months of age, so I figured the early maturing camp was correct. I have two that will be ready for Bryson at the end of next month. One of the others is getting over a respiratory infection and will go in with him as soon as she's back in shape. The last will see him in September.
Thanks for the compliments!
Cindy, I guess I'm really confused because there are web sites around stating that they are early maturing, and then a couple call them later maturing. All of my girls were being ridden (cycling?) within eight months of age, so I figured the early maturing camp was correct. I have two that will be ready for Bryson at the end of next month. One of the others is getting over a respiratory infection and will go in with him as soon as she's back in shape. The last will see him in September.
hillsdown
Well-known member
I too have learned many expensive lessons ,the good thing about that is you usually do not repeat them. ;-)
Can't wait to see their calves sired by Bryson !
Can't wait to see their calves sired by Bryson !
slick4591":1yetohsd said:
Got a question for you slick4591. When are you going to accept your responsibility in all of this? It's hard to miss when a heifer is bagging up, as well as getting loose and sloppy behind. If you had been paying attention to this heifer you should have known she was bred. If you're new to cattle, you should have done your homework and you should have been watching her. Had you done that, you would have known she was in trouble, could have gotten her to the vet, they could have probably done a C-section and saved at least the heifer - if not both the heifer and the calf. Animal ownership is a 2 way street and you also have some responsibility to shoulder in this situation. There are no guarantees when it comes to buying animals in this situation - **** happens. Be thankful that the previous owner even offered to replace the heifer. He didn't have to.
