Breech birth, calf dead-should we butcher cow now?

[msscamp]

Had a nearly 3 year old Hereford heifer go into labor Wednesday. Initially saw some discharge and 1 hoof. Kept watching to see if she was progressing. Nothing. She didn't seem to be interested in pushing at all.

What time of day was this? Any possibility of her having been in labor all night or all day without you knowing it?

Showed very few signs of discomfort. She would get up and go graze, drink, etc like it was just a another day. Husband went in to feel around. Wasn't able to get a good hold of the second hoof so we called the vet. Vet came. Baby is breech. They pulled the calf. It was dead. Full term calf, perfectly formed, excellent size.

Sounds like she had been in labor long enough that the delivery process shut down.

The vet said in his opinion he would butcher the heifer now because as he worded it, "She's lazy". He said "There is absolutely NO reason she shouldn't have been pushing more. She's just lazy and didn't want to." He also added that she's apt to have the same thing happen over and over again. After the birth, he used 3 hot shots to get her up. He said she was "sulking", and then added, "See what I mean about how lazy she is?"

What would you do?

I would never cull based on the opinion of the vet. First off - he/she only knows what they are seeing, and there is a very high chance that what they are seeing is far from the whole picture. 2nd - they know nothing about this particular animal, and are not in a position to judge or condemn based on one encounter. 3rd - vets generally do not have all the facts when they are called out to assist/correct a problem because most of us don't know what happened between the time the problem started and the time we noticed a problem existed, nor can we continously babysit until the time the vet gets there. 4th - the vets job is to help, not tell an owner what to do with their animals. This particular vet sounds a bit full of himself, and I believe I would strongly consider finding a different vet - preferably one who is a little less judgemental. We've had a number of vets over the years - mainly due to retirement, re-location, and selling out their interest in the local vet clinic - but I can honestly say that we have never had a vet who told us what to do with our cattle. To me, telling you to cull this cow due to her being "lazy" is a breech of ethics, highly unprofessional, as well as being irresponsibile - but that is just my opinion.

I mean, just because a heifer has a breech birth her first time calving, is that a reason to cull her?

Not in my book.

The fact that she wouldn't push, is that because she's lazy, as the vet stated or because of the breech calf?

Have you considered the possibility that it could have simply been due to the fact that she was exhausted?

I'd appreciate any input. Thanks.

 

[Keren]

Msscamp, agree with what you said 100% and more.

 

[Loch Valley Fold]

No we went in & tried to turn it but couldn't. Our vet knows when they get a call from us it's pretty serious & something we can't do ourselves

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Knersie, yes I have seen breechs in cows older then a 2 and 3 yo. All of them so far have been a single birth.
Your neighbor needs to ship his lazy cow.

I have never heard of a breech birth being caused by genetics. I was told by our vet that the calf either had not enough room to turn around, was too big to turn or just plain didn't turn for some unknown reason.

I agree with your vet, that's why I asked if you ever see breech births in older cows.

mine was a second calver.. and wished she had been a little lazier ;-) once they push on a breech its a chore too shove em back enough to position them too pull. she had a third calve fine. after i had done bred he back i read where some produce too much amniotic fliud

 

[chippie]

I would get a new vet.
If you like the cow and can afford to keep her, give her a second chance. It wasn't her fault that the calf was presented wrong and that she did not get help when she needed it.

and ditto msscamp

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

It is the calf's responsibility to ingest the amniotic fluid as it is being produced. As the calf gets larger, it ingests more fluid as it practices swallowing and breathing. At the end of term, there is not near as much amniotic fluid as there is at the beginning of the 3rd trimester.

Too much amniotic fluid is usually the result of a calf having problems ingesting the fluid.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

It is the calf's responsibility to ingest the amniotic fluid as it is being produced. As the calf gets larger, it ingests more fluid as it practices swallowing and breathing. At the end of term, there is not near as much amniotic fluid as there is at the beginning of the 3rd trimester.

Too much amniotic fluid is usually the result of a calf having problems ingesting the fluid.

i did'nt see your name on the artical i read. i think it was someone that actually had some insight on it.....not someone holding a grudge or trying to diprove anyone

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

My works would not be found in magazines, just journals. I don't disprove anyone, I let science do that. My question is how long will it be before you come up with some statement that will discredit yourself and then run to a mod to lock this thread too.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

My works would not be found in magazines, just journals. I don't disprove anyone, I let science do that. My question is how long will it be before you come up with some statement that will discredit yourself and then run to a mod to lock this thread too.[/quote/ ] :lol: ask the mod if i locked it they'll be glad to tell you. i have no more pull or influence than you do..... but they do know me well enough to know that aint right.

 

[Keren]

It is the calf's responsibility to ingest the amniotic fluid as it is being produced. As the calf gets larger, it ingests more fluid as it practices swallowing and breathing. At the end of term, there is not near as much amniotic fluid as there is at the beginning of the 3rd trimester.

Too much amniotic fluid is usually the result of a calf having problems ingesting the fluid.

I'm not quite following this. True enough the foetus consumes the amniotic fluid, but it also excretes waste which ends up as amniotic fluid . . . so wouldnt there be a balance?

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

No, the waste leaves via the umbilical cord

 

[ALACOWMAN]

It is the calf's responsibility to ingest the amniotic fluid as it is being produced. As the calf gets larger, it ingests more fluid as it practices swallowing and breathing. At the end of term, there is not near as much amniotic fluid as there is at the beginning of the 3rd trimester.

Too much amniotic fluid is usually the result of a calf having problems ingesting the fluid.

I'm not quite following this.

• True enough the foetus consumes the amniotic fluid, but it also excretes waste which ends up as amniotic fluid . . .

so wouldnt there be a balance?

you are correct. it is a cycle

 

[spinandslide]

I dont mean to highjack..but have a question..I see many people talking about this being old for a first time heifer..will being nearly three make more problems for a first time heifer?

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Out spreading misinformation again I see. If the calf excreted its waste back into the amniotic fluid then it would suffer from meconium asperation syndrome and die. Just b/c it makes sense to you, doesn't mean it is right.

 

[spinandslide]

I dont mean to highjack..but have a question..I see many people talking about this being old for a first time heifer..will being nearly three make more problems for a first time heifer?

Yes it is. The longer you wait to breed them the more their hormones get out of whack and that can and sometimes does lead to problems.

Thank you TN...Good information to know. I will be extra cautious, my heifer will be nearly three when she calves..not ideal, but we'll see what happens.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Out spreading misinformation again I see. If the calf excreted its waste back into the amniotic fluid then it would suffer from meconium asperation syndrome and die. Just b/c it makes sense to you, doesn't mean it is right.

nope.. but if your gonna teach reproductive science you might need to brush on it up yourself ...you need to quit trying to prove me wrong and get to work on improving thoses cattle of yours

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I wish they would lock this thread down already.

as long as i don't get blamed for it :lol2:

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Actually it is one of the courses i teach for a living. I have posted my cattle on here before and most of the comments I recieved were very positive. The only negative that was mentioned I concurred upon and still agree with to this day. It seems to me that you are the one that can't let it alone that you may be wrong (which you are). Don't believe me, look it up.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Actually it is one of the courses i teach for a living. I have posted my cattle on here before and most of the comments I recieved were very positive. The only negative that was mentioned I concurred upon and still agree with to this day. It seems to me that you are the one that can't let it alone that you may be wrong (which you are).

• Don't believe me,

look it up.

nope

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

which is precisely why you will always make the same mistakes and have the same misconceptions all your life. it might also explain why you can't seem spell a word with more than 2 syllables correctly.